Rushin the ruins as new willow is so easy I could do it with my eyes closed.

[cropo]

7 minutes ago, arubaro said:

define armies because without a sewing kit bernie dies pretty quick and exploring to find hound mounds and time plus the time bernie makes you waste

Bernie was even worse. You can't use a sewing kit when he is actively alive, you can only use regular healing items on him in that state.

 

The player needs to properly evacuate Bernie, go sane, wait like an hour for him to unspawn, pick him up, sew him back up, go back insane, drop him.

 

Bernie gets absolutely bodied in the ruins, I haven't tried skill-tree bernie for a ruins go yet but I have doubts on his survival still.

[arubaro]

2 minutes ago, cropo said:

Bernie was even worse. You can't use a sewing kit when he is actively alive, you can only use regular healing items on him in that state.

 

The player needs to properly evacuate Bernie, go sane, wait like an hour for him to unspawn, pick him up, sew him back up, go back insane, drop him.

 

Bernie gets absolutely bodied in the ruins, I haven't tried skill-tree bernie for a ruins go yet but I have doubts on his survival still.

i was confused because the time i tried rushing as her i went without wasting time to get a sewing kit and i was carrying a 0%bernie for most part of the rush...

so is basically another case of someone claiming something is good/bad/op/useless without even testing, i see

[Mysterious box]

12 minutes ago, arubaro said:

but you can set the funtional base after, you dont really need anything else than a couple of crockpots and alchemy+shadow manipulator to beat the game, for that im so biased against destruction

killing klaus 1st winter can be the best reward, only beaten by getting bundle wrap from BQ (which klaus can also drop)

It doesn't take till winter to setup a base with proper equipment and then clear the ruins I see no good reason to reverse the order.

[Picklesaurus]

13 minutes ago, grm9 said:

sorry then, i meant this one, as you can see only the statue at the top on the right is close enough for the bishop to aggro when you're trying to mine the statue 

Ooh I know this setpiece, do you usually kill the rooks or do you use them to destroys the statues and leave without killing them?

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

Oh I know this setpiece, do you usually kill the rooks or do you use them to destroys the statues and leave without killing them?

destroy statues and leave without killing them, that way the bishop doesn't aggro because of hitting a rook nearby    

19 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Yea but I'm the type to prepare before hand rather than rush not like we need the stuff immediately and there's usually other things more worth doing before hand like setting up a functional base which also doesn't take long at all.

starcallers are most useful for winter, base is overrated, i've had a solo world with nothing at base except an alchemy and items on the ground, that world is day 32 i think and has FW, pieces, dfly, AG and BQ dead and a mooncaller, meat is food enough and no need for healing if beefalo tanks for you           

[arubaro]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It doesn't take till winter to setup a base with proper equipment and then clear the ruins I see no good reason to reverse the order

i dont want to discuss how you play because is a sand box but i dont see a good reason to dont get multiple thulecite gear to kill bosses during winter and spring; thulecite club/lazy explorer; for speed; magi for constant speed boost and light for bosses or exploration; star caller staff for boss fights, light in base or heat in winter plus you can rush getting the opal when is low; dreadstone armor so you have infinity durability armor for daily combats; green staff and amulet to craft and decraft expensive gear... sacrificing all of these items plus the bosd loot you get from using them for what? you only need few crockpots if your character can heal from meat dishes...

im not a rusher, i do stuff when i feel like doing it but i do eye of terror-->ruins rush (AG plus some statues)-->daywalker-->klaus-->twins if i didnt fought eye of terror-->deerclops-->BQ-->moose goose-->oasis fishing for the googles-->antlion maybe--> finish cleaning the ruins while in the surface is summer. This is my minimum

The only time i dont rush the ruins is when i feel like starting slow as warly or when im rushing a beefalo and even then i might rush the ruins, or when i play with my noob friends so i just help them gather stuff or guide them to do easy bosses

also, as said, is funnier than dealing with the early game low difficulty 

[Picklesaurus]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i've had a solo world with nothing at base except an alchemy and items on the ground, that world is day 32 i think and has FW, pieces, dfly, AG and BQ dead and a mooncaller, meat is food enough and no need for healing if beefalo tanks for you           

This is incredible, I can kill AG, Nightmare Werepig, Klaus, Deerclops and Twins by day 32, but not BQ - she consumes too much healing and armor - and FW, I could never dream about killing FW so early, I'm not good enough to kill him without proper items and I can't imagine having enough time to kill pieces by day 11 and still being able to kill BQ , Dragon fly , FW and doing the moon staff event. What character were you using?

[arubaro]

5 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

but not BQ - she consumes too much healing and armor

pan flutes are your friends 

edit. also marble armor is so cheap and, if you wait to spring, you can use morning star to increase the dps

[grm9]

6 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

This is incredible, I can kill AG, Nightmare Werepig, Klaus, Deerclops and Twins by day 32, but not BQ - she consumes too much healing and armor - and FW, I could never dream about killing FW so early, I'm not good enough to kill him without proper items and I can't imagine having enough time to kill pieces by day 11 and still being able to kill BQ , Dragon fly , FW and doing the moon staff event. What character were you using?

forgot to list klaus, deerclops and werepig, i think i killed those too, i did use cheese for FW because doing him with no weather pains/nightmare amulet with x1 damage multiplier would be very hard and i'm planning to do a run with him cheeseless before spring at some point after i practice the fight enough, pieces need to be killed day 21, i used maxwell 

[Picklesaurus]

34 minutes ago, arubaro said:

pan flutes are your friends 

You are right, but it feels so wrong spamming pan flutes, feels like i'm disabling BQ. I should practice spamming panflutes tho. 

[prettynuggets]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

you can look at the map to know where AG's muddy turf, muddy turf at the start of muddy or lichen at the start of ruins is without needing to get moggles

hahhaa ruins have 3 branches. one of them is where AG is. 
of course i knew that before the labirinth have lichen with muddy but doesnt mean the start of branch u can always see it. 

also the point of it also i dont need to go back and forth just because i found dead end on labyrinth branches. 
with so much area full lighted lantern i bet u will get lost once or twice while using moggles u can just went thro it.

or u just lucky all ur life having really short labirinth or having the AG entrance just by where the first branches start. 
 

[Mysterious box]

39 minutes ago, grm9 said:

starcallers are most useful for winter, base is overrated, i've had a solo world with nothing at base except an alchemy and items on the ground, that world is day 32 i think and has FW, pieces, dfly, AG and BQ dead and a mooncaller, meat is food enough and no need for healing if beefalo tanks for you           

I mean I still have the ruins cleared before winter I just don't dive in as soon as I start like rushers.

Though I do a full clear earlier than most.

[Swiyss]

1 hour ago, Mr Giggio said:

Isnt that the funniest? Despite farming embers [that she didnt need before skill tree] all the chores they mentioned she already did excel and Im like ??????????? ok

Its like people are discovering fire stun mechanics just now...

When you're not using a mod to see enemies health it's kinda hard to know when they'll die, you can calculate and count attacks but it's too risky to light them on fire knowing that the loot could be lost. I'm a loot lover myself, I can't even throw seeds away. But with willow you definitely have an easier time setting things on fire and not caring about them.

The change that made loot not burn makes for a very strong character now since she can burn almost all burnable mobs and still benefit from the loot.

It might look like just a small thing, but all these things added up, and the character suddently gets overpowered since the way you get insight right now is way too easy.

[grm9]

15 minutes ago, prettynuggets said:

hahhaa ruins have 3 branches. one of them is where AG is. 
of course i knew that before the labirinth have lichen with muddy but doesnt mean the start of branch u can always see it. 

also the point of it also i dont need to go back and forth just because i found dead end on labyrinth branches. 
with so much area full lighted lantern i bet u will get lost once or twice while using moggles u can just went thro it.

or u just lucky all ur life having really short labirinth or having the AG entrance just by where the first branches start. 
 

i meant that you can see everything that a player with moggles can see, since muddy turf at the start of muddy, lichen at the start of ruins and muddy turf in AG's arena are displayed on the map 

6 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

When you're not using a mod to see enemies health it's kinda hard to know when they'll die, you can calculate and count attacks but it's too risky to light them on fire knowing that the loot could be lost. I'm a loot lover myself, I can't even throw seeds away. But with willow you definitely have an easier time setting things on fire and not caring about them.

that's convencience, not timesave aside from not having to wait a few seconds for the enemy to stop burning                   

[prettynuggets]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

since muddy turf at the start of muddy, lichen at the start of ruins and muddy turf in AG's arena are displayed on the map 

what ? i quick generate world with this no mod. this ag connected to military . 

also u see that one statue at start of branch it was most of ruins branches started at. or the room with bunch of chair. 
i probably never see the ag path/entrance attached directly to muddy biome with monkeys.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, prettynuggets said:

what ? i quick generate world with this no mod. this ag connected to military . 

also u see that one statue at start of branch it was most of ruins branches started at. or the room with bunch of chair. 
i probably never see the ag path/entrance attached directly to muddy biome with monkeys.

i've mentioned muddy and lichen because you mentioned finding ruins in general, not only AG 

[Swiyss]

58 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It doesn't take till winter to setup a base with proper equipment and then clear the ruins I see no good reason to reverse the order.

I think that clearing the ruins is bad early, but rushing it with certain things in mind is a very good strategy and doesn't take too long. I usually rush ruins day 2 or 3, come back by day 9 with some thul gear, a magi, a start caller and potentially a lazy explorer (walking cane before winter is amazing). Then killing klaus is optimized, same as BQ and essentially every other boss like the twins and dfly also. I tries willow and it's very very great and fun with her, but the stupid lunar fire skill (even being only possible in certain scenarios) still needs a tiny nerf, yeah it has less than a dark sword dps but people forgot to not realise the thing has are of effect damage, and is affected by damage multipliers.

[MondayNight]

I distinctly remember at least 2 topics some time ago on these very forums advocating for Willow to be "a true pyromaniac", with fire-bursting explosions, massive fire dmg to environment and mobs, advanced fire magic and whatnot. I also remember how other commentators were cheering for such a character rework, directly of via Skill Trees. "Lemmings runnin' aft'r d@ L3@d3r" & "vigorously-clapping seals" classic behavior.

You know what? KLei listened.

Ye 'nd behold, Willow has now potent fire magic with AoE, gains loot from burning enemies.. heck, can even purposely yeet players in Co-Op. Not only "a true pyromaniac", but also an epic griefer.

And only now some people start complaining that, maybe, MAYBE, it wasn't a good idea. That massive AoE fire damage (highest per time unit in game by a huge margin) may be "OP". "Mnooo, d' ye really think that there, skippy?!"

Still I can't deny, the entertainment factor is proverbially off the roof - especially as griefer play-through.

[prettynuggets]

2 hours ago, prettynuggets said:

if i rushing i tend to find faster way to ag with moggles

  

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i've mentioned muddy and lichen because you mentioned finding ruins in general, not only AG 

  

2 hours ago, prettynuggets said:

why would i stuck days in cave ruin rushing just because i wandering too long searching right branch or getting super far labirinth generation just because im too lazy to make moggles 

wut ? i literally say i dont want to stuck because wandering too long searching the right branch. to kill AG. 
also dont u think u miss something ? i make moggles ofc im past the lichen area lmao 

 

[cropo]

5 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

I think that clearing the ruins is bad early, but rushing it with certain things in mind is a very good strategy and doesn't take too long. I usually rush ruins day 2 or 3, come back by day 9 with some thul gear, a magi, a start caller and potentially a lazy explorer (walking cane before winter is amazing). Then killing klaus is optimized, same as BQ and essentially every other boss like the twins and dfly also. I tries willow and it's very very great and fun with her, but the stupid lunar fire skill (even being only possible in certain scenarios) still needs a tiny nerf, yeah it has less than a dark sword dps but people forgot to not realise the thing has are of effect damage, and is affected by damage multipliers.

The only nerf I would want for it is making it unaffected by damage multipliers(except her own on fire damage buff).

[Swiyss]

4 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

I distinctly remember at least 2 topics some time ago on these very forums advocating for Willow to be "a true pyromaniac", with fire-bursting explosions, massive fire dmg to environment and mobs, advanced fire magic and whatnot. I also remember how other commentators were cheering for such a character rework, directly of via Skill Trees. "Lemmings runnin' aft'r d@ L3@d3r" & "vigorously-clapping seals" classic behavior.

You know what? KLei listened.

Ye 'nd behold, Willow has now potent fire magic with AoE, gains loot from burning enemies.. heck, can even purposely yeet players in Co-Op. Not only "a true pyromaniac", but also an epic griefer.

And only now some people start complaining that, maybe, MAYBE, it wasn't a good idea. That massive AoE fire damage (highest per time unit in game by a huge margin) may be "OP". "Mnooo, d' ye really think that there, skippy?!"

Still I can't deny, the entertainment factor is proverbially off the roof - especially as griefer play-through.

Thats so true. The big jump of power they gave to her is kinda exiciting but maybe too much.

2 minutes ago, cropo said:

The only nerf I would want for it is making it unaffected by damage multipliers(except her own on fire damage buff).

We kinda should make so it deals damage based on target's max health. Spiders should die after a 70% of the cast. Not by only hitting it for 20% of the time, so it doesnt feel soo strong.

Abigail does damage based on the time of the day, and it still takes some time to kill them. And she was always like that.

Honestly they should make the skill do damage faster with lots of little hits. Like lighting ropes on fire to do damage.

 

[grm9]

14 minutes ago, prettynuggets said:

  

  

wut ? i literally say i dont want to stuck because wandering too long searching the right branch. to kill AG. 
also dont u think u miss something ? i make moggles ofc im past the lichen area lmao 

 

i thought you meant the land branch that leads to muddy, i forgot about glow berry requirement, i don't see why'd you leave after killing AG unless you're planning to only use dreadstone/beefalo as armor instead of thule crowns 

[prettynuggets]

14 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i thought you meant the land branch that leads to muddy, i forgot about glow berry requirement, i don't see why'd you leave after killing AG unless you're planning to only use dreadstone/beefalo as armor instead of thule crowns 

i rarely rely on high tier armor since i can do early bosses with kiting. so i dont really need armor early on.
i focused to finishing my pearl and req for archive. and i can do the rest of ruins and afw in summer. 

also i dont go to ruins at day 1 lol. i usually leave for it after beating DF. if i dont get it from AG ill just pop into broken station nearby and craft what i need.
if i got star caller ill just back and later when winter. to craft decon staff for iri gem. i dont want waste autumn too much at cave .. 

[cropo]

28 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

We kinda should make so it deals damage based on target's max health. Spiders should die after a 70% of the cast. Not by only hitting it for 20% of the time, so it doesnt feel soo strong.

Abigail does damage based on the time of the day, and it still takes some time to kill them. And she was always like that.

Honestly they should make the skill do damage faster with lots of little hits. Like lighting ropes on fire to do damage.

 

Another possibility is that the shadow and lunar fires can only be cast with a lunar or shadow variant of the embers that only drop after rifts have been activated, maybe? So the player would only logically have access to them post-rift, so having them decimate little spiders would be perfectly justified.

iirc Wormwoods lunar affinity requires the brightshade sword so it's not a stretch to ask the same of Willow.

 

I do think the shadow spell is a bit janky and maybe needs to be a bit stronger in some way.

[Swiyss]

Just now, cropo said:

 

Another possibility is that the shadow and lunar fires can only be cast with a lunar or shadow variant of the embers that only drop after rifts have been activated, maybe? So the player would only logically have access to them post-rift, so having them decimate little spiders would be perfectly justified.

Amazing!

Add an item to store embers, 4 slots. Done.