What New Players Really Need?/What exactly is stopping new players from playing DST?

[liuyuncangye]

I have written a lot of things, but I think the really important thing is the fifth part.

Part 1: The new player's dilemma

I think the biggest problem with DST is in the game lack of guidance, much of the game content is hard to discover without looking at the walkthroughand ，the biggest feeling that many beginners have when playing DST is " don't know what to do ".

I understand what you're trying to say, the DS was really a game with very little guidance in the early days, it was referred to as a "hardcore survival" game and attracted a large number of players.

However, with the development of the game industry and the change of players' habits in recent years, the game industry has changed a lot, and gradually "hardcore" has become a negative adjective for a game. If a new player of a game released now needs to see a lot of walkthroughs and videos in order to experience the game, then the game is definitely a failure.

(From my observations on other forums, many of the players who stick with DST have seen a walkthrough or video of the game.)

 

Part 2 :DS and DST are already two very different games

DS is a survival-oriented game where the player has to think about "how to survive." In the case of ROG, players need to find ways to survive in the face of seasonal difficulties and bosses survival is the goal.

In DST's ROG content, the surviving-oriented gameplay style has been retained, but changes have been made in subsequent updates.

A New Reign, Return of Them, From Beyond, their play style changed from "survival" to "combat," because if I completely ignored these updates, I could still survive, because they are not "necessities of survival," they are "condiments of survival." I'm sure a lot of players would agree: DST survival is getting easier.

 

Part 3: DST's lack of guidance

Changing game design styles isn't a problem, but how can new players discover new content without a "purpose to live for"?

A lot of the content in DST has little to no guidance, and many new players simply don't know "I can do this", such as farming and fishing

Also, many bosses have pre-unlock requirements (many of which can be very complex), which creates a problem for new players

" If I can't find the boss, how do I kill the boss? " 

If you don't look at the game walkthrough or video, will you really find these bosses?

 

Part 4: The early survival is very difficult, the later survival is too easy (take my example in reality)

I started with three friends playing DST with me, but by the end it was just me.

At the beginning, we felt that we died too easily, did not know the importance of armor, and did not know how to return blood, most of the monsters can beat me easily, and the death penalty is very big, you need to slowly float to the portal to revive and slowly run to the side of your body, maybe will be killed by the same thing, It really caused a lot of frustration for me and my friends.

Then they decided that DST was too easy (you read that right), because one person chose Wendy and only needed Spider's nest and Wendy to get a lot of food and never had to leave the base.

But when survival was no longer an issue we "didn't know what to do" and even went to other mods, and eventually they stopped playing DST.

I asked them why they didn't want to play DST anymore and they told me "DST is too easy" and I didn't know what to say because they were telling the truth, yet they probably hadn't even experienced three-quarters of DST, hadn't been out at sea, hadn't been underground, and the boss had killed Deerclops.

We Don't know what else I'll experience when "don't Starve" turns into "eat too much."

It wasn't until I watched the video that I realized that DST had a lot of interesting things that I didn't know about, but my friends didn't play DST anymore.

 

Part 5: How to attract New Players

(1) Instead of making the game easier, the right thing to do is to combine "survival" and "combat", just like you did in the DS

(2) Reduce the death penalty, greatly speed up the movement of ghosts, if you can directly revive next to the body, it is better, and a few minutes after the resurrection in an invincible state, so that new players can better explore the world

(3) Strengthen the guidance for survival, for example, when it is nearly night, the character will say "I should need light", and when it is nearly winter, "I should need warm clothes".

Introduce mods such as "smart pot", "show me", etc. that can prompt the player to survive into the game, or give new players a (obvious prompt) to install these mods

Make quick saving and reading a separate button, and since I can do that with the console, I don't think it's a problem to make them an obvious button for new players.

(4) Strengthen the guidance of the boss, at least let the player know "this boss is here" you can let the player defeat the boss.

For example, add a boss manual that gives new players tips on how to find these bosses, what they might drop, etc.

(5) Add a "main line" or "end goal", such as "Kill Celestial Champion"“A guide”, it's nice to have a clear goal, many games do it (like Terraria)

The above content can only be added to "Endless Mode" or "Easy Mode", which will not affect veteran players.

 

Of course, I'm just providing an idea, these guidelines can be a book, a note, an npc, I believe the developers are capable of doing better, because I think you are also trying to attract more new players.

 

[Ulisesvolador]

30 minutes ago, liuyuncangye said:

(like Terraria)

While terraria has an endgoal, afaik, is never said to the players (not even in the achievements), so nood a good example imo.

41 minutes ago, liuyuncangye said:

Introduce mods such as "smart pot", "show me", etc. that can prompt the player to survive into the game, or give new players a (obvious prompt) to install these mods

Show Me is a complex mod, gives a lot of information that the new player might not understand, instead of introducing "smart pot" they could rework the cookbook to be useful for new players (like we introduce cookbook in a crockpot special slot for it and it tells what food you'll get depending on the ingredients and the recipes you've unlocked, similar to those mods)

Another thing that could be useful is adding seasonal clock (in the form of a building or item) like in combined status and a crafting to make portable thermometers.

46 minutes ago, liuyuncangye said:

(4) Strengthen the guidance of the boss, at least let the player know "this boss is here" you can let the player defeat the boss.

For example, add a boss manual that gives new players tips on how to find these bosses, what they might drop, etc.

Scrapbook can be improved to have that feature.

[D_Good_Fellow]

My take is that new/casual players don't need quite as much hand-holding as people think they do. DST does have a problem of being difficult to learn quickly, but beyond that I don't think it's a terribly alienating game to new players. Furthermore, making the game easier does not necessarily make it more approachable for new/casual players. As your example with your friends demonstrated, easy solutions can result in players quitting if the solution doesn't encourage the player to keep playing.

I would argue that the original DS is less forgiving than DST, but counterintuitively easier to learn that DST. The punishing nature of the original DS actually makes it more approachable for new players in my opinion, since it results in the player learning faster. I learned more in my first 20 days of playing DS original than I did in 5 similar attempts in DST, not because it was easier but because it was carefully balanced to teach players through failure. DST's multiplayer nature made this level of meticulous balance impossible to achieve, so the learning curve is a lot steeper. 

Adding more character perks or even stuff like the cookbook or scrapbook arguably makes the game easier, but not actually more approachable imo. Cook/scrapbook information still comes in too quickly for new/casual players, while being functionally useless to any experienced player with a smart phone within arm's reach. Making the core gameplay experience easier isn't guaranteed to be a good way to teach new players how to play either. Wilson's beard insulation bonuses makes a new player more likely to survive longer into the winter, but deceptively it can also lull the player into being unprepared for the cold because they won't be as incentivized to prepare for it as thoroughly. By comparison, Willow's increased vulnerability to the cold encourages the player to approach winter more cautiously and arguably teaches the player about temperature management a bit better. Easy gameplay is not always conducive to learning and making the game easier does not inherently make it more enjoyable for new or casual players. 

Imo the best solution to make DST accessible for newbies is to just make a tutorial mode. A small, pre-rendered world designed to introduce players to concepts one-by-one in controlled environments would be much more inviting to new players than an in-game wiki or any character perk. It wouldn't interfere with the experience of veteran players the way other difficulty nerfs might. I'm not a game developer, but I imagine making something like this would also be cleaner and simpler than meticulously balancing training wheels to portions of existing gameplay.

[Copyafriend]

I think theres a secondary very important problem: dont starve had an explosion of popularity in the past, a lot of people have pre-formed opinions about dont starve and how it plays. While the exposure was good, those remaining opinions are not necessarily good. Many youtubers would play and die in fairly short order because it made for good youtube content, and so many people who might have otherwise enjoyed dont starve or at least tried it probably ended up with a “dont starve is nearly impossible” mentality. 
 

i dont know what if anything can be done about this, i more wanted to bring attention to it

[Mysterious box]

8 hours ago, liuyuncangye said:

I started with three friends playing DST with me, but by the end it was just me.

At the beginning, we felt that we died too easily, did not know the importance of armor, and did not know how to return blood, most of the monsters can beat me easily, and the death penalty is very big, you need to slowly float to the portal to revive and slowly run to the side of your body, maybe will be killed by the same thing, It really caused a lot of frustration for me and my friends.

Then they decided that DST was too easy (you read that right), because one person chose Wendy and only needed Spider's nest and Wendy to get a lot of food and never had to leave the base.

But when survival was no longer an issue we "didn't know what to do" and even went to other mods, and eventually they stopped playing DST.

I asked them why they didn't want to play DST anymore and they told me "DST is too easy" and I didn't know what to say because they were telling the truth, yet they probably hadn't even experienced three-quarters of DST, hadn't been out at sea, hadn't been underground, and the boss had killed Deerclops.

We Don't know what else I'll experience when "don't Starve" turns into "eat too much."

It wasn't until I watched the video that I realized that DST had a lot of interesting things that I didn't know about, but my friends didn't play DST anymore.

This is actually a major problem with don't starve together most players never actually experience most of it's content because only about 15-20% of it is needed to survive and while some view that as a good thing it actually hinders player growth and engagement. While some might think adding a bunch of rewards is enough to incentivize players to explore that content is the way to go that only goes so far and most will ignore it. If Kiel doesn't link the world to survival most players will just simply never experience their content because it takes more effort to work up the willpower to participate in optional content than it does if you actually needed to do it to survive.

If winter, spring, and summer were changed to take place on far away large islands don't starve together would be considered a worse game because for most players the core experience is what you need to experience not what's optional. This isn't to say everything need to be required but players learn more when they explore the world they play in but don't starve together doesn't ask you to explore and it doesn't ask you to learn beyond the basics instead it rewards you for turtling and leaning heavily on your character perks as the further you get from your comfort zone the more dangerous the game gets.

[Cloakingsumo198]

What if more things had passive effects by being held like a thermal stone instead of needing to be activated.

Like holding a cookbook while interacting with food will tell you it's stats or highlight potential recipes in full crockpots.

I wanted the scrapbook to also be an in-game item that can be crafted it would should mob health, weapon/armor stats like damage, protection %, rain protection, and durability.

Would these changes make newer players waste two inventory slots on these items though? More than likely yes tbh

[chirsg]

I started with Don't Starve. I am out of touch when it comes with dst starters.

I didn't start to get "Good" until I actually purchased the game and decided "I'm going to learn how to fight." And I chose wigfrid.

Before that, I was purely playing to beat daycount records in either shipwrecked or ROG as Woodie, taking full advantage of the beaver form.
I say "I'm going to learn how to fight" When I picked Wigfrid, but I was an OG Woodie main ever since I first unlocked him and still fought bosses as beaver when they emerged, and then rage quit when deerclops destroyed base. 

It feels like in base game, it rewards you after you die with XP and the longer you live and die, the more XP you get.

I think that I would be completely lost if not for single player.

Before that, I did struggle a lot.
However, in my struggle, there was a small reward for each time you lived and died, and even outside of a session, you had something to look forward to out of the game.

What happens when you die in DST? Well, more or less, everything is already available to you anyway. There's no good reason to die, if that makes sense.

If I could put a finger on it, the progression in actually unlocking characters actually did encourage me to play after I had died because death in single player wasn't a huge waste of time and progression. There was something for you when a session ended.

However, in dst, you die, death counter ticks, fail to reach a touchstone or LGA and you lose. That's it. No fanfare, no kudos for making it as far as you did, you simply have failed the game. 

 

That's my opinoin. Because it contains no complaints about the beta, this will be unread. My posts are only fun when I complain about Woodie

[BezKa]

My problem is that I disagree with the very premise. The lack of guidance is what made the game fun. Discovering things on your own is what made it good. If new players can't handle that, then they shouldn't play. Outside game resources can be used if they don't want the intended experience, but the game shouldn't provide them.

And I don't care if the industry is changing, approach is changing or whatever. Do we want all games to be the same? If we want money, yes. Hurray capitalism.

I know what I'm saying is literally gatekeeping, but for a niche experience that's basically the point. No everyone will enjoy it, some people will try and give up. Those who can keep going, are not deferred by death and gain enjoyment from gameplay, and not some strange set goal, are the ones the game is for. If you aren't curious, you won't find out. So you're filtered out. The game does things to spark that curiosity. The marble structures shake at full moon and new moon. Passing by a research machine makes your available recipes ding. There are sets scattered around the world with items you might have not noticed before. It's all there to make you curious, but not exactly guide you, and discover things on your own.

It's not perfect. But introducing changes that completely change the system into a reward chasing, instead of playing for playings sake, introduces far more problems than it solves.

[Dextops]

Just now, BezKa said:

My problem is that I disagree with the very premise. The lack of guidance is what made the game fun. Discovering things on your own is what made it good. If new players can't handle that, then they shouldn't play. Outside game resources can be used if they don't want the intended experience, but the game shouldn't provide them.

That’s dumb. The game has so much completely hidden info that you’ll most likely never find unless you look it up which 99%(made up statistic) of people end up doing. And as you say later in your post yeah you’re just Gate keeping which shouldn’t be seen as a good thing. Allowing new players to get a foothold on the game so they can actually explore the game and have fun instead of just quitting does not effect you in anyway so I’m confused why you’re so against it. 

 

5 minutes ago, BezKa said:

know what I'm saying is literally gatekeeping, but for a niche experience that's basically the point.

This game is not niche and it hasn’t been for a while. This game is consistently in the top 50 most concurrent players on steam from what I’ve seen. You are trying to gatekeep thousands of people from entering a game we all enjoy because now instead of using the wiki they can find similar information in game.

[BezKa]

4 minutes ago, Dextops said:

This game is not niche and it hasn’t been for a while. This game is consistently in the top 50 most concurrent players on steam from what I’ve seen. You are trying to gatekeep thousands of people from entering a game we all enjoy because now instead of using the wiki they can find similar information in game.

Niche is the wrong word for me to use. I haven't found on that fits what I'm thinking better yet, so sorry for the confusion. The only thing I mean by that, is that it's not the usual experience of 1.Turn on the game 2. Play the tutorial 3. Play the game. There aren't a lot of games that skip step 2, and I think DST should keep being that game. People who can't handle that are not actually that common- DS was super popular before, so why do the change now? Why fix what isn't broken?

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, BezKa said:

Niche is the wrong word for me to use. I haven't found on that fits what I'm thinking better yet, so sorry for the confusion. The only thing I mean by that, is that it's not the usual experience of 1.Turn on the game 2. Play the tutorial 3. Play the game. There aren't a lot of games that skip step 2, and I think DST should keep being that game. People who can't handle that are not actually that common- DS was super popular before, so why do the change now? Why fix what isn't broken?

I agree this game should never get a tutorial but I think the scrap book is a good way of doing something loosely similar. It’s something where you aren’t given the information until you actually see the thing and explore it. As the scrapbook gets better and more filled out I think the game can be a much better experience for newer players without the game becoming a cake walk, and it could also remove the reliance on the wiki for new players.

[BezKa]

2 minutes ago, Dextops said:

I agree this game should never get a tutorial but I think the scrap book is a good way of doing something loosely similar. It’s something where you aren’t given the information until you actually see the thing and explore it. As the scrapbook gets better and more filled out I think the game can be a much better experience for newer players without the game becoming a cake walk, and it could also remove the reliance on the wiki for new players.

It could be seen that way, but I see it as a dinging distraction. I don't know if I would be as glad to explore the world of Don't Starve if I opened the little database and saw thousands of slots to fill out and document. But that's purely my opinion and I actually doubt many players would have that problem.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, BezKa said:

Niche is the wrong word for me to use. I haven't found on that fits what I'm thinking better yet, so sorry for the confusion. The only thing I mean by that, is that it's not the usual experience of 1.Turn on the game 2. Play the tutorial 3. Play the game. There aren't a lot of games that skip step 2, and I think DST should keep being that game. People who can't handle that are not actually that common- DS was super popular before, so why do the change now? Why fix what isn't broken?

The problem is it is broken if you look at dst from the perspective of when it launched it was mostly okay but as the game keeps expanding the experience isn't adapting to meet that expansion without keeping up with patch notes or guides most of the content remains hidden and that's because most of the content added for dst is handled as a after thought excused by the freedom of choice.

If don't starve together wants to fix the new player problem they're either going to have to force the player's hand to explore and adapt or start adding tutorials that explain things away because at the moment don't starve together already has tutorials plenty of them they just don't exist in the game but that's how most people learn to play.

The thing is it's not even like tutorials have to be hand holdy if done right some games have invisible tutorials where they faintly guide the player without dialogue or obvious gestures super metriod does this and most players had never figured it out. 

[BezKa]

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Snip

Tbf, I agree that some content is hidden away a bit too much. But for that I blame the monthly update schedule, where an update is very separated from everything else. Like how the rift updates are disliked by community for how unfinished they feel, when if they were done over the course of 3 months and then released they would probably be received better. Consider the Waterlogged update, that introduces a mini biome to the ocean and some interactions with it- it is as separated from the rest of the game as can be. It works somewhat with the whole ocean exploration part, where you're meant to find it by just sailing, but there's nothing in the game implying that it exists. There's other stuff that actually suffers from this, but imo it's not lack of tutorials, it's lack of integration. (Imagine adding wind to DST, and the knobbly tree flower petals being carried by it to the shore they're closest to) Klei could have come back to some of the content updates to smooth out the connecting edges, but they're busy with the next update. Forever.

I'd argue that invisible tutorials aren't tutorials. But it's semantics, so let's drop it- DST already has "hidden tutorials" all over. So yes, introducing more would be good, but things like scrap book or skill trees are not it. (Just examples, I don't want another discussion on them.)

[Mysterious box]

21 minutes ago, BezKa said:

DST already has "hidden tutorials" all over.

Where? The only thing that comes to mind for me on that front is pigs asking if you have meat.

 

21 minutes ago, BezKa said:

things like scrap book or skill trees are not it.

I agree with skill trees really adding nothing on that front but I kinda disagree on the scrapbook, because giving players at least a vague understanding of how durable things are or how strong you are goes a long way to giving new players more confidence in combat. 

[BezKa]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Where?

Nearly all set pieces. Whether it's the board boon, that gives you some refined material ("How do I get these? Is that what the science machine is for? What can I do with them?") or bug net and bee hat boon, that implies you can catch bees. Those exist for a reason, and are sneaky ways to make you curious. Even just seeing a skeleton near the oasis is a hidden explanation, because it has a straw hat (for heat, therefore probably summer) and a fishing rod (for. Fishing. Obviously) implying there's a fishing spot here at a certain time. The fixable marble statues set, the one with all three kinds of clockworks is a part of the Fuelweaver quest guide. It fails a bit though, because of the full moon working on it- you probably want the gears more than to accidentally find a trio boss battle. 

As mentioned earlier, the fact your inventory dings near a science machine if you can make something. Character quotes often contain hints or straight up explanations (including an extra quote under wall quotes to say they can be fixed) places/objects where something can be inserted being a certain color and shape, environment sound changes to imply danger or opposite (all sound in the caves has a different ambience, putting you more on edge, eerie sounds on lunar island where things are not quite right).

Item placement in specific categories in the crafting menu (one man band in food & gardening) or similar stuff in the same biome (various kinds of mushrooms near the glommer statue, so you might see them popping up at different times).

Those are all just logical things that make sense, so it's hard to call them a tutorial. Would you call a shovel next to developer graveyard set piece a tutorial? I wouldn't, but it is a hint. I'd love to be more of them if implemented in a good way. A set piece of a broken piece of clothing and a sewing kit is too on the nose imo, but a skeleton with a broken piece of clothing and a log, hound tooth and some silk is a bit better. That's a whole different discussion to be had.

 

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, BezKa said:

Nearly all set pieces. Whether it's the board boon, that gives you some refined material ("How do I get these? Is that what the science machine is for? What can I do with them?") or bug net and bee hat boon, that implies you can catch bees. Those exist for a reason, and are sneaky ways to make you curious. Even just seeing a skeleton near the oasis is a hidden explanation, because it has a straw hat (for heat, therefore probably summer) and a fishing rod (for. Fishing. Obviously) implying there's a fishing spot here at a certain time. The fixable marble statues set, the one with all three kinds of clockworks is a part of the Fuelweaver quest guide. It fails a bit though, because of the full moon working on it- you probably want the gears more than to accidentally find a trio boss battle. 

As mentioned earlier, the fact your inventory dings near a science machine if you can make something. Character quotes often contain hints or straight up explanations (including an extra quote under wall quotes to say they can be fixed) places/objects where something can be inserted being a certain color and shape, environment sound changes to imply danger or opposite (all sound in the caves has a different ambience, putting you more on edge, eerie sounds on lunar island where things are not quite right).

Item placement in specific categories in the crafting menu (one man band in food & gardening) or similar stuff in the same biome (various kinds of mushrooms near the glommer statue, so you might see them popping up at different times).

Those are all just logical things that make sense, so it's hard to call them a tutorial. Would you call a shovel next to developer graveyard set piece a tutorial? I wouldn't, but it is a hint. I'd love to be more of them if implemented in a good way. A set piece of a broken piece of clothing and a sewing kit is too on the nose imo, but a skeleton with a broken piece of clothing and a log, hound tooth and some silk is a bit better. That's a whole different discussion to be had.

 

The problem with those being set pieces that may not appear is there's a good chance people who need those hints will either never see them or see them after they've already given up and decided to look up the answer to their problem online. Though I'd argue a easy solution would be to make some set pieces permanent to world gens with a option to not make them so in the options considering the world is very empty as it stands anyway. 

[BezKa]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

The problem with those being set pieces that may not appear is there's a good chance people who need those hints will either never see them or see them after they've already given up and decided to look up the answer to their problem online. Though I'd argue a easy solution would be to make some set pieces permanent to world gens with a option to not make them so in the options considering the world is very empty as it stands anyway. 

Those worked better with DS' "die and find out" because you'd go through a lot of worlds, so you have a igher chance of finding them. In DST, I agree, they are more easily missed if new players rollback instead of starting a new world.

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, BezKa said:

Those worked better with DS' "die and find out" because you'd go through a lot of worlds, so you have a igher chance of finding them. In DST, I agree, they are more easily missed if new players rollback instead of starting a new world.

I would argue it's not even dst's fault really much like what the op said people hate to fail these days and when it happens it's become more acceptable to consider it the game's fault and not the player's. Some games even get flack for having a challenging normal mode even if easy mode is a option. Even long running game series that aren't known for being hard have caved on it see the modern Mario games and their various invincibility states that auto win you levels if you die too much. And as much as we might dislike it that makes sense most players don't want to think or try hard at a game they're playing there are definitely many out there who do but the vast majority don't so if a developer wants to stay in business with less worries appealing to the crowd who doesn't want to try as hard is the safest bet... 

[BezKa]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Snip

Exactly. All hail capitalism, as always.

[Mike23Ua]

Actually, inviting new players into a game that was NEVER DESIGNED TO APPEAL TO THEM is actually a bad thing.. and in several ways this could lead to disaster.

First of all, a company should never try to lure players in with a false blanket of security “oh this games going to be peaceful boat fishing & happy food farming”

And maybe it is… UNTIL someone kills CC and Brightshades spawn on that poor noobs farm they had built.

Rather you like this thought or not: DS and DST have ALWAYS been Uncompromising Survival games, & the faster Klei shows new players that they actually AREN’T going to have their hands held, and they Aren’t going to be able to build a map wide farm without dangers eventually taking it over- The better.

Because-

You don’t invite someone looking to play Mario to play the faster loopy loop filled sonic the hedgehog, sure the two games may share similarities, but one is based on blazing across the screen at the speed of sound, while the other is slower & more puzzle-y based.

So actually yes I do take issue with DST trying to cater to a casual audience, only for that casual audience to later find out that the game they thought they were playing, has always been something else.

These players need to know exactly what they’re getting themselves involved into- cause if a player doesn’t enjoy surviving hound waves on day 7, they won’t enjoy them any better on day 507.

[Catteflyterpill]

9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Actually, inviting new players into a game that was NEVER DESIGNED TO APPEAL TO THEM is actually a bad thing.. and in several ways this could lead to disaster.

First of all, a company should never try to lure players in with a false blanket of security “oh this games going to be peaceful boat fishing & happy food farming”

And maybe it is… UNTIL someone kills CC and Brightshades spawn on that poor noobs farm they had built.

Rather you like this thought or not: DS and DST have ALWAYS been Uncompromising Survival games, & the faster Klei shows new players that they actually AREN’T going to have their hands held, and they Aren’t going to be able to build a map wide farm without dangers eventually taking it over- The better.

Because-

You don’t invite someone looking to play Mario to play the faster loopy loop filled sonic the hedgehog, sure the two games may share similarities, but one is based on blazing across the screen at the speed of sound, while the other is slower & more puzzle-y based.

So actually yes I do take issue with DST trying to cater to a casual audience, only for that casual audience to later find out that the game they thought they were playing, has always been something else.

These players need to know exactly what they’re getting themselves involved into- cause if a player doesn’t enjoy surviving hound waves on day 7, they won’t enjoy them any better on day 507.

The issue isn't that new players aren't going to enjoy the game, the problem is that it's hard for people to bring their friends because of the skill gap. When I know how to properly kite mobs, what sources of food are viable, how to deal with hunger/sanity and try to bring another player along they're often going to feel confused and like a burden and slow me down because of that gap in experience. I think Klei is just trying to make it so new players don't feel so overwhelmed at the start and make it easier for people to bring their friends on. 

Of course bringing new players has a monetary incentive for Klei, but it feels like you forget that this is a multiplayer game. Everything that works for Don't Starve might not work for DST because it's a game that is meant to be played with people. The game isn't so much catering to a casual audience as much as it iss catering to a multiplayer one.

[Mysterious box]

10 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Actually, inviting new players into a game that was NEVER DESIGNED TO APPEAL TO THEM is actually a bad thing.. and in several ways this could lead to disaster.

First of all, a company should never try to lure players in with a false blanket of security “oh this games going to be peaceful boat fishing & happy food farming”

Hate to tell you this but it's profitable and it works like a lot a real lot.

 

12 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

And maybe it is… UNTIL someone kills CC and Brightshades spawn on that poor noobs farm they had built.

Most new players will never stick around long enough for this to happen plenty still don't know rifts exist most are eternal autumn players who sometimes dip their toes in winter why do you think content has slowly been being pushed back earlier into the game.

15 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You don’t invite someone looking to play Mario to play the faster loopy loop filled sonic the hedgehog, sure the two games may share similarities, but one is based on blazing across the screen at the speed of sound, while the other is slower & more puzzle-y based.

Honestly there's really not a huge difference in how their 2d games play speed wise but I guess that's somewhat accurate of their 3d games.

7 minutes ago, Catteflyterpill said:

The issue isn't that new players aren't going to enjoy the game, the problem is that it's hard for people to bring their friends because of the skill gap. When I know how to properly kite mobs, what sources of food are viable, how to deal with hunger/sanity and try to bring another player along they're often going to feel confused and like a burden and slow me down because of that gap in experience. I think Klei is just trying to make it so new players don't feel so overwhelmed at the start and make it easier for people to bring their friends on. 

Of course bringing new players has a monetary incentive for Klei, but it feels like you forget that this is a multiplayer game. Everything that works for Don't Starve might not work for DST because it's a game that is meant to be played with people. The game isn't so much catering to a casual audience as much as it iss catering to a multiplayer one.

I'd argue aside from the scrapbook they haven't really improved on this front sadly...

[Gashzer]

DS had all characters locked. When you died, annoying as it was, atleast you unlocked new characters after you died to encourage you to go back to playing in a new world. This helped people to accept that dying and losing your world isn't a big deal. But at the same time people had to get good at DS fast otherwise they lose everything.

DST has trained the complete opposite mentality. Because of vote rollback and the ease of access of rollbacks in general, the second something goes wrong you just rollback. Using rollback trivalises all survival challenges, boss fights and any other problem people encounter, you dont get punished for being bad at DST. Plus the fact its multiplayer, you can just leech off others too. Therefore you have no reason to get good at the game. I know people who have played DST for 700+ hours and still cant solo dragonfly which is absurd. New players will just get bored once they figure out they can just rollback for every little problem. Rollback completely breaks your engagement and immersion in the game.

Unpopular opinion but all characters in DST should have also been locked at the start with the same XP system needed to unlock them like in DS. Rollbacks shouldnt have been a thing and every single resource should have been renewable either by natural world regrowth or some other way. 

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

DS had all characters locked. When you died, annoying as it was, atleast you unlocked new characters after you died to encourage you to go back to playing in a new world. This helped people to accept that dying and losing your world isn't a big deal. But at the same time people had to get good at DS fast otherwise they lose everything.

DST has trained the complete opposite mentality. Because of vote rollback and the ease of access of rollbacks in general, the second something goes wrong you just rollback. Using rollback trivalises all survival challenges, boss fights and any other problem people encounter, you dont get punished for being bad at DST. Plus the fact its multiplayer, you can just leech off others too. Therefore you have no reason to get good at the game. I know people who have played DST for 700+ hours and still cant solo dragonfly which is absurd.

Unpopular opinion but all characters in DST should have also been locked at the start with the same XP system needed to unlock them like in DS. Rollbacks shouldnt have been a thing and every single resource should have been renewable either by natural world regrowth or some other way. 

You do know there’s a setting you can toggle so that when you die your world instantly deletes itself right? No rollback option, no becoming a spooky ghost, just like classic DS die & say goodbye to your world.