Honestly i kind of wish they had just left wormwood alone

[Dextops]

Just now, Cheggf said:

Literally every single time I click "Show this post" on your name it's just you following me around to leave angry strawman comments lol

i was just making a joke just like you did? discussing is what this forum is about and characters is a large part of this game so it makes sense why they're being discussed. I reply to a lot of your posts because i heavily disagree with a lot of them.

[Antynomity]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’m personally not a fan of being able to forcefully feed mobs what is effectively Exlax to make them poop themselves.

To me it just feels like it signifies the DS franchise has gone to literal poop jokes.

Werepigs are still better sh*tters.

[Primalflower]

2 hours ago, Dextops said:

I reply to a lot of your posts because i heavily disagree with a lot of them.

this is a reasonable thing to say in the pursuit of having a discussion with someone but i think its so funny to phrase like that. i reply to you because everything you say is wrong

[Mortalbane]

5 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

Actually i made this thread first, i ranted in your thread afterwards

Whatever makes you sleep better, mate

5 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

You really wanna rework the entire skill tree as if there’s nothing else going on in the klei offices other than reworking wormwood

Yes i do, because:
a) i think he is still underwhelming, especially compared to others, even if he has fans of that weakness. But you said yourself that you like Wes, so i don't doubt you wish all characters to be like Wes or Wilson. I'm not fine with Maxwell and Wanda being OP, while Wilson has to spend 7 skill points on a torch and still lamp is better. And it's clear that Klei is not nerfing anyone, so i guess buffing weaker characters is the way.
b) he lacks identity - he is a farmer? then why Klei looks at his traps, adds some lunar mobs, but gives literally nothing to farming. Since when WW is more of a fighter than a farmer, with healing penalties. If i wanna fight, i'll pick Wolfgang.
So, they are indeed buffing Wormwood, just in a questionable direction. The suggestions that i value the most is my farming branch suggestions.
c) yeah, Klei should rush onward with the skill trees. Let's have perks like Fly Trap, tending range increase, and torch branch for all characters. To fulfill your  Wet  Wes dreams.

And however you think my suggestions suck, they are simply suggestions.
Feel free to disagree, and try to avoid insults and toxic runts in the future.
 

[cropo]

I think Wormwoods skill tree in general is extremely boring, the buffs to it are great but overall I find an entire branch dedicated to making petty decorations a huge waste. That being said, I'm fine with it because Wormwood himself is very interesting to play as, and this last skill tree preview looks like it fixes the weird and nonsensical branches. Why is the berry bush tree on the offensive affinity side? I don't want that crap man.

 

26 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

b) he lacks identity - he is a farmer? then why Klei looks at his traps, adds some lunar mobs, but gives literally nothing to farming. Since when WW is more of a fighter than a farmer, with healing penalties. If i wanna fight, i'll pick Wolfgang.

Wormwoods got plenty of identity and helps the team out in various areas rather than a single one and has a nice perk to help himself with blooming. Increased movement speed, damage, and self-light sources(wx) are the 3 strongest abilities anyone can have as a character. It's why all the garbage custom characters in the Steam Workshop usually do one of those, or all of them at once.

 

Tilling a 4x4 plot takes an extremely long time, not having to even bother with remaking the constantly breaking hoes is really good for farming.  His seed detector perk now lets him roll for dragonfruit extremely efficiently.  I always use spider and honey poultices for healing because they stack high and never expire, his bramble husk is great for AOE, his traps work on splemunkeys.

 

He also encourages the use of the Bat Bat which is a heavily underutilized weapon type, he gets plant-themed buffs to the currently BiS armor and weapons in the game.

 

He's not just a farmer, he's a plant and he plays like one.  What more does he need for farming anyway? Like he got buffs to making mushrooms, he can immediately identify seeds, he can tend to crops super fast when unbloomed and automatically when bloomed, he can detect if there's any problems with crops without needing the hat for it, he doesn't need to make 3 hoes per cycle. Like what else could they give him that he really needs? You want him to whip out some nature druid magic to make super-duper crops or something/

[Primalflower]

Just now, cropo said:

but overall I find an entire branch dedicated to making petty decorations a huge waste.

i've been playing wormwood nearly nonstop since the beta and most of my usage of wormwoods perks have been in utilizing berry bushes to so much more of an extent than i ever could with natural regrowth, especially juicy berries, not only that but i find the ability to summon lureplants early game to be super interesting since you could get together automated resource collection way faster than other characters, a decent bit before better options like the shadow reaper become available.

aside from that, idk, i feel like wormwood is significantly strong in both "pre hardmode" and "hardmode" with bramble husks & dark swords on demand and then pretty crazy massive buffs to brightshade gear with him specifically. he really isn't underpowered in any sense of the word, and none of the changes to his skill tree were responsible for that.

[cropo]

6 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

idk, i feel like wormwood is significantly strong in both "pre hardmode" and "hardmode"

Yeah i don't think there's any problem with Wormwoods base kit, he's really fun to play, i just think his skill trees are boring. That's fine though, I don't main Wormwood and he got some nice passive upgrades with this update. I just think the affinity skills are the only fun skills to look at, and the summoning side just felt gimmicky. If you like the bush crafting skills more power to you, to me they are just that....really boring. 

[Copyafriend]

3 hours ago, Mortalbane said:

Whatever makes you sleep better, mate

I slept very well thank you for asking

 

3 hours ago, Mortalbane said:

) i think he is still underwhelming, especially compared to others, even if he has fans of that weakness. But you said yourself that you like Wes

And you are fine for disliking said weakness, that does not make said weakness wrong.

3 hours ago, Mortalbane said:

don't doubt you wish all characters to be like Wes or Wilson.

Meanwhile this is a rediculous assumption playing me up to be some cartoon villain who just hates when other people have fun. I said i like wes, but chose not to play him because the challenge was just tedious. I never said anything remotely to the extent of “i want all characters to be weak”, the only thing i can remember in a similar vein was a long long past thread wanting more interesting downsides, but a downside wouldnt turn wolfgang into wes lmao.

 

3 hours ago, Mortalbane said:

I'm not fine with Maxwell and Wanda being OP, while Wilson has to spend 7 skill points on a torch and still lamp is better

I’m not going to break down the pros and cons of every character, but wanda is not op and she never was, and maxwell isnt either. Though id say maxwell is better than wanda imho, i also just like him more but thats not really important to the discussion.

klei spoke pretty loudly without any words with wilsons rework imho (though i wish they had done him more justice, like make it fun if you’re not gonna make it powerful, those torch skills are a disgrace)

they might as well have told us that not everyone is going to be as powerful as everyone else.

which is honestly a really good mentality to follow in my opinion, trying to perfectly balance every character tends to lead to either power creep, homogenization, or worse: unfun mechanics for the sake of “balance”.

but also i cant say i know their plans for maxwell and wanda, but odds are those skill trees wont be as powerful as wormwood (who has a downside) or woodie (who literally sucked before his)

3 hours ago, Mortalbane said:

Since when WW is more of a fighter than a farmer, with healing penalties.

Additionally: not every character is a combat character, but of the not combat characters? Wormwood has great combat abilities with his increased mobility and access to aoe damage. Every wormwood player that i typically talk to love fighting as wormwood.

But also, why are you going to complain about his “relative strength” and then also say if you want to fight you’d play wolfgang.

i mean what are you even complaining about then?

3 hours ago, Mortalbane said:

The suggestions that i value the most is my farming branch suggestions.

And you can love those all you want, but wormwood isnt just a farmer, you’re being reductive on what he is or isn’t. Trying to fit characters into a label doesnt work super well. Heck even wortox the classic healer archetype actively suffers in how much he heals when he’s around others, in large groups (unless its been changed since i interacted with it) the healing gets as low as 5 health. 

but that’s probably because he’s supposed to do other things than healing, he can also explore really fast, move long distances instantly, live off of nothing but souls.

its almost like he’s more than his archetype, it’s strange it sounds almost like good game design.

3 hours ago, Mortalbane said:

yeah, Klei should rush onward with the skill trees

I would hope they’re working on their next content update

3 hours ago, Mortalbane said:

Let's have perks like Fly Trap, tending range increase, and torch branch for all characters

I mean i expect most characters to have a few sucky skills, but this post and my post on your forums were SPECIFICALLY saying that they’re giving it another look and showed us a strong new skill tree. So i mean fly trap is gone afaik. And also tending range increase was always fine, we didnt need 3 skills with it though.

and quit bullying poor wilson hes just a guy with a stick

3 hours ago, Mortalbane said:

To fulfill your  Wet  Wes dreams.

Again assuming what i want. Very strange, also calling it a “wet dream” is particularly crass.

3 hours ago, Mortalbane said:

Feel free to disagree, and try to avoid insults and toxic runts in the future.

I try… sometimes?

i mean lets be honest you fully matched my energy and were just as toxic as me, its good to call me out, but also, whether you read it or not i did apologize in the other thread and say i could have been more polite.

and i recommend everyone avoid toxic runts, they’re dangerous buggies.

[Mortalbane]

2 hours ago, cropo said:

Yeah i don't think there's any problem with Wormwoods base kit, he's really fun to play, i just think his skill trees are boring. That's fine though, I don't main Wormwood and he got some nice passive upgrades with this update. I just think the affinity skills are the only fun skills to look at, and the summoning side just felt gimmicky. If you like the bush crafting skills more power to you, to me they are just that....really boring. 

Wormwood without skill tree was fun, but underwhelming.
The first iteration of the tree was meh to say the least. I hope the second will be better. And i'll take it anyway.

I suggest you to take a look at my ideas, you've described everything that i took into consideration myself.
Specifically at WW's skill tree overhaul post.
The link is in my signature.

And he definitely doesn't play like a plant xD
This concept i've also explored, by the way, it's in the WW full rework ideas.

4 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Meanwhile this is a rediculous assumption

Yeah, yeah, other people's thoughts, opinions and ideas are silly and ridiculous. We are all just silly geese, not worthy of being in the presence of the Mighty Opinion King.
Heard all that before.
I won't read any of your posts again, don't bother writing.

[Copyafriend]

15 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

I won't read any of your posts again, don't bother writing.

Holy moly you really hit me with the “dont care didn’t read” a SECOND time.

my god, he’s done it, he won all of the internet arguments ever.

I mean i just have fun with this **** my guy i kinda liked having someone to “roll around in the mud with” so to speak. But yeah fair enough it was probably time to quit the argument

[chirsg]

I've come to pre-emptively complain that Wigfrid did not get a spear throw in her skillset and would like this to be rectified in the beta.

[Tortoise Guy]

6 hours ago, Primalflower said:

aside from that, idk, i feel like wormwood is significantly strong in both "pre hardmode" and "hardmode"

Man, we really have to come up with some better terminology, cuz calling it hardmode feels a little wrong, but also, saying "post CC and FW" is way too long lol

[Dextops]

9 minutes ago, Tortoise Guy said:

Man, we really have to come up with some better terminology, cuz calling it hardmode feels a little wrong, but also, saying "post CC and FW" is way too long lol

Post game/late game 

[Tortoise Guy]

1 hour ago, Dextops said:

Post game/late game 

Late game has always kinda been a shaky term when speaking abour dst, but I guess it could work now. Also post game could work, but only if you consider CC and FW the final bosses, which they are for now, but that may change

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Dextops said:

Post game/late game 

I wouldnt really call it late game though.. even activated under normal means, whatever the average time it is to speed rush AFW or CC is exactly how fast you can rush the “late game” into the “early game” but that’s a design of Klei’s fault, if they would’ve made fixing pearls house require a flower that only spawned on day 70 during summer, or if they would’ve made you have to search an island as Wonkey on Day 150 for a special treasure- there would be some late game hold back but as it stands right now..

Any player skilled enough to take on CC or AFW can trigger the late game.

[Copyafriend]

9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

ny player skilled enough to take on CC or AFW can trigger the late game.

This is not a flaw though, many games are similar, time gating things doesnt typically add anything aside from waiting. Either someone is good enough to do it quickly, or they aren’t and they will take that long anyway.

i mean you’re not beating it before day 150 on your first go through anyway, and if it’s someones 20th time beating the game, do you think they’d want to wait till summer to fight the final boss if they could fight it immediately using pure skill?

[Catteflyterpill]

20 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I wouldnt really call it late game though.. even activated under normal means, whatever the average time it is to speed rush AFW or CC is exactly how fast you can rush the “late game” into the “early game” but that’s a design of Klei’s fault, if they would’ve made fixing pearls house require a flower that only spawned on day 70 during summer, or if they would’ve made you have to search an island as Wonkey on Day 150 for a special treasure- there would be some late game hold back but as it stands right now..

Any player skilled enough to take on CC or AFW can trigger the late game.

?? There's plenty of games where you can beat the content in less than an hour by rushing it. It's not a design flaw if people like to speedrun. Rift content is still very much late game because it presents itself last in how to access the content. For most people playing casually they're going to take a while to get to that point in the game.

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, Catteflyterpill said:

?? There's plenty of games where you can beat the content in less than an hour by rushing it. It's not a design flaw if people like to speedrun. Rift content is still very much late game because it presents itself last in how to access the content. For most people playing casually they're going to take a while to get to that point in the game.

No there not… because ONE single player can rush the end game on everyone else rather they’re ready or not.

[Dextops]

Just now, Mike23Ua said:

No there not… because ONE single player can rush the end game on everyone else rather they’re ready or not.

Except the only place you’d see this is on pubs and I don’t think basing things on pubs is a good idea especially when most never make it past winter.

[Catteflyterpill]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

No there not… because ONE single player can rush the end game on everyone else rather they’re ready or not.

It is a multiplayer game? Communicate with your team members, or don't play with them. If you're playing on pubs understand that this is the issue with public servers and its a risk you're taking when you go in. 

[Mike23Ua]

6 minutes ago, Catteflyterpill said:

It is a multiplayer game? Communicate with your team members, or don't play with them. If you're playing on pubs understand that this is the issue with public servers and its a risk you're taking when you go in. 

It’s got nothing to do with pubs, dst has always been a highly chaotic game to play in multiplayer, from Wickers being able to spam full moons on Woodie, or Rainfall on WX78, to a Veteran intentionally playing “spin the bottle” with phase 2 Twins of Terror on a group of newbies to laugh at whoever they randomly spawn on, DST has always had that level of chaos.

I password lock my rooms and set them to friends only, but the few times I HAVE left my worlds open to the public, they’ve burned down bases, hammered down Glommers statue, destroyed the ancient pesu Stations down in caves..

All of this pales in comparison to being able to force wild rifts to spawn though.

[Catteflyterpill]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It’s got nothing to do with pubs, dst has always been a highly chaotic game to play in multiplayer, from Wickers being able to spam full moons on Woodie, or Rainfall on WX78, to a Veteran intentionally playing “spin the bottle” with phase 2 Twins of Terror on a group of newbies to laugh at whoever they randomly spawn on, DST has always had that level of chaos.

I password lock my rooms and set them to friends only, but the few times I HAVE left my worlds open to the public, they’ve burned down bases, hammered down Glommers statue, destroyed the ancient pesu Stations down in caves..

All of this pales in comparison to being able to force wild rifts to spawn though.

You said it has nothing to do w/ pubs and then described how this happens the times you've made your server public? I feel like it proves what I was saying so well that I'm not really sure how to argue this.You kind of already captured what I was saying with your own anecdotes.

[Copyafriend]

10 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It’s got nothing to do with pubs, dst has always been a highly chaotic game to play in multiplayer, from Wickers being able to spam full moons on Woodie, or Rainfall on WX78, to a Veteran intentionally playing “spin the bottle” with phase 2 Twins of Terror on a group of newbies to laugh at whoever they randomly spawn on, DST has always had that level of chaos.

I password lock my rooms and set them to friends only, but the few times I HAVE left my worlds open to the public, they’ve burned down bases, hammered down Glommers statue, destroyed the ancient pesu Stations down in caves..

All of this pales in comparison to being able to force wild rifts to spawn though.

My guy forcing wild rifts to spawn is overall not that dangerous, like now there are some areas infestef with brightshades. Spoopy.

but honestly that would just be trolls being trolls, beating both endgame bosses as a prank sounds stupidly over elaborate and more sounds like a boogeyman that you’re building up in your head.

i mean i COULD see doing it once or twice if i was a speedrunner, but at 8 minutes an in game day and approx 40 days for a really fast speedrun of both, thats 320 minutes or 5.3 HOURS of progress for a prank. And it isnt even necessarily harmful. More harmful would be entering the world and looting all of the ruins and just.., leaving. Or befriending pearl and leaving the crab king pearl… in the middle of the ocean. Or taking all tje lunar gems from the archives.

most of these are far more damaging with much much less effort. And i’m going to be honest no. Burning a base down, or destroying the pseudoscience stations, or randomly summoning the twins are all much worse than making the rifts spawn, because the rifts provide useful end game resources, and are more or less an avoidable threat.

tldr: quit worrying about a grief that would take 5 hours to pull off, it just isnt a big threat, especially since you always have control of whether or not to let players in.

[somethin]

23 hours ago, Antynomity said:

Werepigs are still better sh*tters.

Yeah, but seeing them run around s***ing themselves is waaay funnier.
Also, amassing ipecaca is much faster than going downstairs to pick light bulb once you set up it's ingredient farm, especially now with wormwood's mushroom planters skill.

[Ryusuta]

I really think the addition of skill trees for anyone other than Wilson sets and incredibly bad precedent in the game, for sure. It is Power Creep personified.

"Don't like the character right now? Wait for its new skill tree! Then maybe it will be better."

"Feel the character is now too strong? Well, wait for the other characters to get THEIR skill trees and they'll be better than that character again."

Yeah... Not an encouraging thought. What happened to taking a character for what they are and dealing with ALL of their perks and drawbacks as-is?

It's like Beefalo all over again.