Each character should have a unique way to gain insight

[Ridepod]

I was rather disappointed to learn that Wormwood, Woodie, and Wolfgang all earn insight the same exact way as Wilson - simply overtime by surviving. To max out all your insight points as these three, you would need to survive at least a combined 480 days... which amounts to a total of 64 hours (going by the wiki). At this point, I assume most players are just going to cheat in the insight with the console or mods because of the tedium of getting insight (I know I already did). This also forces console players to obtain them all legitimately.

I suggest that characters should gain insight based on doing the things that the character excels at, so that gaining insight is more rewarding, not gated by insane time barriers, and is simply fun. Although I think the current time barrier is fine for Wilson's since its kinda the default way and pairs well with his design. Each character should gain points for doing their respective proficiency, with more points being awarded for harder, related tasks. And later insight would have larger point requirements for unlocking.

Wormwood, for example, would gain 1 point when farming crops, but would gain a substantial more amount if the plants are giant.

Woodie could get points for chopping trees, and a large bonus for defeating a treeguard.

Wolfgang gets points for defeating enemies, and much more for bosses, since he's the 2x damage dealer of the game

If all future characters are still receiving insight simply by surviving, my console is going to see a lot more LongUpdate(99999). But if obtaining insight is actually rewarding and achievable, and not just a byproduct of playing, then I will probably earn it legitimately.

 

Edit: this would probably be better implemented alongside the current time-gated method, but with doing these character-related tasks to move your current time / progress closer to the next insight point unlock

 

[ZRY25010]

right

[Emkonr]

10 hours ago, Ridepod said:

Each character should gain points for doing their respective proficiency, with more points being awarded for harder, related tasks. 

On paper this does sound neat, but wouldn't it "force" players into those specific playstyles?

It reminds me of how Klei first tried to teach the playtesters the ropes, giving them list of tasks to complete, like gather 20 logs, survive for 5 days, stuff like that. 

It backfired horribly, players huddling around the fire for half an hour to survive those 5 days, and then they just stopped playing when no new quests came. 

Your suggestion could work no doubt, as an additive to surviving, like each tree chopped as a Woodie reduces the timer by a minute, but to make it all-or-nothing deal is just too close to those tutorial tasks imo. 

[_zwb]

23 minutes ago, Emkonr said:

On paper this does sound neat, but wouldn't it "force" players into those specific playstyles?

They could make it that you gain some insights by just surviving, but you gain a lot more by doing specific things that helps you progress or what your character is good at.

[gamehun20]

I think an invisible "xp bar" could work like we still have the survive days that increases the bar over time and if we have like extra tasks like chopping killing stuff and so on also gives xp but not a huge amount but even this has problems like how does it determine who killed the creature or if follower kills count

[Emkonr]

2 hours ago, _zwb said:

They could make it that you gain some insights by just surviving, but you gain a lot more by doing specific things that helps you progress or what your character is good at.

Yeah, exactly as I said

[Paxtonnnn]

13 hours ago, Ridepod said:

Woodie could get points for chopping trees, and a large bonus for defeating a treeguard.

Unfortunately with methods like this, it just gets grindy in another way imo. The current method is extremely flawed, but at least it doesn’t get in the way of gameplay - having to chop down an entire forest to get the skills early kinda does.

I’d love to see Klei figure out some alternative though

[Emkonr]

2 hours ago, gamehun20 said:

I think an invisible "xp bar" could work like we still have the survive days that increases the bar over time and if we have like extra tasks like chopping killing stuff and so on also gives xp but not a huge amount but even this has problems like how does it determine who killed the creature or if follower kills count

Agreed, there'd be so much coding. Overall, it's a neat idea, and I'd like to see more personalised skill trees and potentially gaining of insight, but it's a long shot.

That bwing said, it's true that locking away stuff behind literal days of waiting isn't the most exciting thing ever. I mean, we literally have Bearger for that already, lol, so a legitimate way to speed up the wait wouldn't hurt. Except, y'know, the coders having to figure it all out and make it work. 

[Ridepod]

3 hours ago, Emkonr said:

On paper this does sound neat, but wouldn't it "force" players into those specific playstyles?

It reminds me of how Klei first tried to teach the playtesters the ropes, giving them list of tasks to complete, like gather 20 logs, survive for 5 days, stuff like that. 

It backfired horribly, players huddling around the fire for half an hour to survive those 5 days, and then they just stopped playing when no new quests came. 

Your suggestion could work no doubt, as an additive to surviving, like each tree chopped as a Woodie reduces the timer by a minute, but to make it all-or-nothing deal is just too close to those tutorial tasks imo. 

30 minutes ago, Paxtonnnn said:

Unfortunately with methods like this, it just gets grindy in another way imo. The current method is extremely flawed, but at least it doesn’t get in the way of gameplay - having to chop down an entire forest to get the skills early kinda does.

I’d love to see Klei figure out some alternative though

I tried to come up with 2 ways for each character to get insight - an easy way that they would get inevitably just by playing the character, and then a more rewarding way that they would need to actively get. But I agree that it should probably still stay with the time-gated way, and the ideal scenario is the implementation of these objectives drastically reducing the timer depending on their level so that they aren't permanently locked if you are some bizarre Woodie player who never chops trees or something. Also I think there should be some information on the character's skillset page about how they would gain insight faster.

[Mysterious box]

18 hours ago, Ridepod said:

Wormwood, for example, would gain 1 point when farming crops, but would gain a substantial more amount if the plants are giant.

I would unironically never play Wormwood again...

[Ridepod]

20 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I would unironically never play Wormwood again...

Admittedly that's probably my worst suggestion of the 3 since Woodie chopping wood and Wolfgang killing stuff is pretty inevitable while Wormwood farming is totally optional and I know some people are more interested in the bloom speed and his inability to heal with food, but these are just ways to potentially gain insight faster for each character because the current method is not fun, not to force you to play a certain way.. 

 

edit: added a poll to the op out of curiosity

[Tortoise Guy]

On 7/29/2023 at 4:09 AM, Ridepod said:

I was rather disappointed to learn that Wormwood, Woodie, and Wolfgang all earn insight the same exact way as Wilson - simply overtime by surviving. To max out all your insight points as these three, you would need to survive at least a combined 480 days... which amounts to a total of 64 hours (going by the wiki). At this point, I assume most players are just going to cheat in the insight with the console or mods because of the tedium of getting insight (I know I already did). This also forces console players to obtain them all legitimately.

I suggest that characters should gain insight based on doing the things that the character excels at, so that gaining insight is more rewarding, not gated by insane time barriers, and is simply fun. Although I think the current time barrier is fine for Wilson's since its kinda the default way and pairs well with his design. Each character should gain points for doing their respective proficiency, with more points being awarded for harder, related tasks. And later insight would have larger point requirements for unlocking.

Wormwood, for example, would gain 1 point when farming crops, but would gain a substantial more amount if the plants are giant.

Woodie could get points for chopping trees, and a large bonus for defeating a treeguard.

Wolfgang gets points for defeating enemies, and much more for bosses, since he's the 2x damage dealer of the game

If all future characters are still receiving insight simply by surviving, my console is going to see a lot more LongUpdate(99999). But if obtaining insight is actually rewarding and achievable, and not just a byproduct of playing, then I will probably earn it legitimately.

 

Edit: this would probably be better implemented alongside the current time-gated method, but with doing these character-related tasks to move your current time / progress closer to the next insight point unlock

 

Unfortunately, I feel like this woukd be worse than the current system. It might be boring, but at least the current one doesn't get in your way; this would be both boring AND grindy. Instead, I feel like it would be best to encourage players to explore and see what the game has to offer.

An idea I had a while ago would be to keep the current survival-based system, but let you instantly skip to the next point by accomplishing tasks such as prototyping your first alchemy engine item, crafting your first item at the pseudoscience station, defeating raid bosses for the first time, trading with the queen of the moon quay for the first time, or other tasks that would mark "progression".

Obviously, the tasks should be hidden, that way they don't feel like chores, but something that might reward the player for exploring the world and taking on challenges

[Mike23Ua]

PC players really just can’t resist cheating can they?! it’s literally one of the reasons I don’t watch streamers with their megabases, there’s no way to tell if what they built is legit, or if they spawned it in with God Commands.

Xbox players though, our insight is earned through time playing.. I find this to be alright, but if other ways of gaining insight was to be added I’d want them to be unique to each character, such as Wolfgang lifting heavy stuff, or Wendy helping Pipspooks find lost stuffs

[Copyafriend]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

PC players really just can’t resist cheating can they?! it’s literally one of the reasons I don’t watch streamers with their megabases, there’s no way to tell if what they built is legit, or if they spawned it in with God Commands.

Jeez dude, you do realize that you’re in a niche forum for the game right? Like literally id say 95/100 players on this forum have over 1000 hours. I just granted me my earned insight retroactively, theres no need to be elitist about it.

[_zwb]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

PC players really just can’t resist cheating can they?

Why would I spend another 160 days(21 and a third hours) playing this character to unlock all the skills when I have played way longer than that? And I'll have to do this for all of the characters, not all yet but it certainly will be. That's a boring process so I want to skip it.

And saying PC players can't resist cheating... we certainly can and there are people who play in a really vanilla style, no mods no settings change whatsoever.

[HowlVoid]

All of my insight was obtained afk. I made an endless world as spent most of it as a ghost, only reviving to see how much insight I had gained. 

I'm on console, I have no wish to do this with other characters. It's very boring to get to the new stuff. 

Also leaving my console on for almost two days in a row just to reach the new content was funny. 

[reddocc]

I think Insight could be gained in generic ways for all characters, ej exploring new biomes, crafting higher tiers of science and magic, defeating seasonal gigants

[Mike23Ua]

42 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Jeez dude, you do realize that you’re in a niche forum for the game right? Like literally id say 95/100 players on this forum have over 1000 hours. I just granted me my earned insight retroactively, theres no need to be elitist about it.

See the way I look at it is if Klei intended console commands to be an actual gameplay feature then they would be present within all versions of the game across all available platforms.

But since they’re not… then people who use console commands are in my opinion “cheating”

Your effectively using a Developer Debug menu actually..

And it’s OKAY if you want to do that and cheat your way through it (I admit I cheat to gain access to rifts in day 1 worlds) But, actually accepting to yourself that your cheating, would be much better then getting “upset” with yourself that you debugged the hell outta insight points & now- Beg that insight points would’ve been unlocked or collected in a different way.

Its like Tunnel Man in Spelunky, sure.. you CAN start in the Ancient Temple level I guess and skip 3/4ths of the games stages, but by doing so the game clearly leaves a visible warning label that doing this won’t save your leaderboard scores & you won’t be able to unlock achievements during that run.

Why? Because it’s cheating.. only Spelunky makes you acknowledge that Upfront.

[_zwb]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

See the way I look at it is if Klei intended console commands to be an actual gameplay feature then they would be present within all versions of the game across all available platforms.

How can you type in those long console commands on the console platform? Wouldn't that take forever?

How could they implement it in the mobile version when they don't have a keyboard(that means they need a visible button/icon)?

I think there are physical limitations behind those.

[Brago-sama]

5 minutes ago, _zwb said:

How can you type in those long console commands on the console platform? Wouldn't that take forever?

How could they implement it in the mobile version when they don't have a keyboard(that means they need a visible button/icon)?

I think there are physical limitations behind those.

So i dont want to get sucked into whatever this is but I would like to point out you can attach a keyboard for typing in Dst (at least for ps4/5 versions)

Shame theres no mouse support. It's do-able too seeing as deep rock galactic on console (x-box and playstation) has keyboard and mouse support

[Bloomada]

1 hour ago, Pedro cc said:

I think Insight could be gained in generic ways for all characters, ej exploring new biomes, crafting higher tiers of science and magic, defeating seasonal gigants

i agree! maybe if it was tied to the scrapbook then it would give players a reason to explore and try new things without locking them into specific tasks

[Copyafriend]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

But since they’re not… then people who use console commands are in my opinion “cheating”

Correct. Everything you said is correct, but what you’re missing is: my POINT.

You’re being rude about the cheating by going:

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

PC players really just can’t resist cheating can they?!

Like… i’m sorry you cant, i’m not going to be “legit” and wait for a literal time gate that provides no additional challenge.

so no, you’re not better because you HAD to (not chose to) go through time gated content despite your extensive hours. If i was sub 1000 hours i might care more.

[Notecja]

2 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Like… i’m sorry you cant, i’m not going to be “legit” and wait for a literal time gate that provides no additional challenge

I can only once unlock character by no cheating - but when moved from beta to normal game I "restored" my points with some cheating. 

[VexTheHex]

 I disagree since some will be more mundane than others in that case. I'm fine with taking the time to unlock them, it gives me something else to work towards and complete.

[lenship2]

i still think insight should be a per world thing, where you spawn with around 4 or 5 points and get the max 15 points by day 75 (bearger spawn)