Should new players protection extend to post AFW/CC natural disasters?

[Tranoze]

There an existing feature in game make player under 9 days wont recieve any hound or worm attack. Shouldnt this be extended to acid rain, moonstorm and other planar stuffs since new players who just join a server has no mean to defense against these disasters?
 

Acid rain should act like normal rain toward player less than 9 days old.
Moonstorm should not effect them.
Fullmoon from active moonstorm should not effect woodie that less than 9 days, regards of he learnt his skill from skill tree or not.

[Captain_Rage]

No.

[JustAFlower]

No (By the way I never heard about the Ancient Wuelfeaver (it's AFW not AWF))

[Mike23Ua]

As someone who has played the game with rifts on in Day 1 worlds ever since they were added I can say that it can both make the game easier, & harder.

Easier: Brightshade spawns near pig village you can get free pig skins and meats just watching pigs get smacked around, you can lure hounds into it, and seasonal bosses.

Harder: they can spawn near Beefalo and wipe them into extinction if your not careful.

Now as far as how “Difficult” they are for Newbies- Dude… they’re stationary mobs that don’t move, you can just.. avoid going near them.

To me it’s no different from ignoring a Clockwork Bishop/Rook that’s on the surface until I’m geared up and ready to take them on, but until I do… they stay in their area sleeping until I get near enough to wake them.

Now as far as cave rifts go- that’s something newbies should avoid altogether.

[Tranoze]

13 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Now as far as how “Difficult” they are for Newbies- Dude… they’re stationary mobs that don’t move, you can just.. avoid going near them.

My main point is natural disaster, aka acid rain. Imagine you join in mid summer and in cave some how there acid rain there, now it is unplayable for both cave and surface.
Moonstorm is avoidable, yes. But fullmoon are not avoidable for woodie, unless he go to cave, which...
ACID RAIN!.

[Mysterious box]

11 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

My main point is natural disaster, aka acid rain. Imagine you join in mid summer and in cave some how there acid rain there, now it is unplayable for both cave and surface.
Moonstorm is avoidable, yes. But fullmoon are not avoidable for woodie, unless he go to cave, which...
ACID RAIN!.

It's the risk you take it's like going into a level 100 area as a level 1 character and expecting the game to scale to your level.

[Tranoze]

14 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It's the risk you take it's like going into a level 100 area as a level 1 character and expecting the game to scale to your level.

There already risk on joining summer/winter. Problem is in lobby screen there are no saying if rift opened or not in a world. I can certainly survive and take this risk, but seeing countless newbies die to acid rain, i think they deserve some minor protection in world where other older and welly equipped than them decide to opened rift.

The first 9 days they should be able to explore the world like how they expected it to be in lobby screen, then they can experience hell after that.

Before joining a world you know exactly what season you are in, and you got minor equipment protection for that season. But that not for rift. Joining a world without knowing rift already open for that world is deadly, especially when you are deeply in cave, gathering material and acid rain happend, and you die before you can reach, or craft protection gears.

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

There already risk on joining summer/winter. Problem is in lobby screen there are no saying if rift opened or not in a world. I can certainly survive and take this risk, but seeing countless newbies die to acid rain, i think they deserve some minor protection in world where other older and welly equipped than them decide to opened rift.

The first 9 days they should be able to explore the world like how they expected it to be in lobby screen, then they can experience hell after that.

Before joining a world you know exactly what season you are in, and you got minor equipment protection for that season. But that not for rift. Joining a world without knowing rift already open for that world is deadly, especially when you are deeply in cave, gathering material and acid rain happend, and you die before you can reach, or craft protection gears.

It generally takes a fair bit of time for a rift to be activated so I still see that as a enter at your own risk sort of deal but I guess they could add a alert that rifts are active when someone joins a server or add a warning in the server tags when they're active. At the end of the day though it's the responsibility of the person who joins to be able to handle it and the people on the server to let newbies know. Kiel can't be held responsible for people joining late game worlds.

[abrocator]

I’ve played pubs with Rifts enabled on day one and brightshades set to Tons. I don’t see a way to implement this since the classic thing that happens is that

• Someone transplants things to the base
• Or someone makes crops
• Brightshades infest them

Newbies hang around base a lot. So as long as there are day 9+ players in the base as well the base is going to get infested.

[Tranoze]

59 minutes ago, abrocator said:

I’ve played pubs with Rifts enabled on day one and brightshades set to Tons. I don’t see a way to implement this since the classic thing that happens is that

• Someone transplants things to the base
• Or someone makes crops
• Brightshades infest them

Newbies hang around base a lot. So as long as there are day 9+ players in the base as well the base is going to get infested.

I dont worry about brightshade plants as they are easily avoidable. What im worry about is acid rain and other natural disaster klei about to add. Right now acid rain is too powerful even to a fully equip player, not to say a new player who just joined, they have no rain protection gears, and making cave unplayable for them is unfair, as cave contain lots of content for them to explore, and the only way they can avoid acid rain without rain gears right now, is to go back to surface, and it cant be done if they too deep in the cave when acid rain start.

[Fufuji]

"New World" protection should. You don't want your underground base get instantly destroyed by Cave-ins before you could cover your base with Supporting Pillars when official update releases, right?

[Mike23Ua]

5 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

It generally takes a fair bit of time for a rift to be activated so I still see that as a enter at your own risk sort of deal but I guess they could add a alert that rifts are active when someone joins a server or add a warning in the server tags when they're active. At the end of the day though it's the responsibility of the person who joins to be able to handle it and the people on the server to let newbies know. Kiel can't be held responsible for people joining late game worlds.

Klei actually SHOULD be though.. and I think that’s what the OP is trying to say, now I don’t want to try and tell Klei how to design their own game… but all it takes is one really skilled player to make the game miserable on 5 newbies who weren’t ready for it.

Its the craziest design decision I’ve seen in any game well um ever? How can one player make the entire game harder on everyone else if they’re not the host??

Lets harken back to the days of Dead Island (the original game released on xbox360) or even the newer released Gotham Knights- All players in the game have to be present at any major game event, most importantly: The introduction of ANYTHING that makes the game harder… such as new enemies- Suicider Zombies won’t spawn in your world till everyone meets up in a red glowing circle and the game plays a cutscene introducing them.

With DST… Klei’s like pffft they’ll figure it out, and they allow a single person to make the game more difficult on everyone else.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Klei actually SHOULD be though.. and I think that’s what the OP is trying to say, now I don’t want to try and tell Klei how to design their own game… but all it takes is one really skilled player to make the game miserable on 5 newbies who weren’t ready for it.

Its the craziest design decision I’ve seen in any game well um ever? How can one player make the entire game harder on everyone else if they’re not the host??

Lets harken back to the days of Dead Island (the original game released on xbox360) or even the newer released Gotham Knights- All players in the game have to be present at any major game event, most importantly: The introduction of ANYTHING that makes the game harder… such as new enemies- Suicider Zombies won’t spawn in your world till everyone meets up in a red glowing circle and the game plays a cutscene introducing them.

With DST… Klei’s like pffft they’ll figure it out, and they allow a single person to make the game more difficult on everyone else.

This doesn't work for dst as players can drop in and out at any time Kiel can't account for everyone's actions. Shall we have them police griefing? Shall we have them police where people can place pig houses, merm houses, bunnymen, and spiders so as not to inconvenience people of different character choices? I'm sure some would be on board with this but how in the world would they do it? The same applies to end game content it's not like it happens out of nowhere there are signs of what's going on in a world if you didn't just drop in after everything is done and there's nothing they can really implement that would make sense to fix it. For example do you want all end game content to suddenly turn off for 30 days when someone joins a server? Make it so anything related to the end game can't harm a player until they get the corresponding gear?  

[Mike23Ua]

Actually there’s ALOT they could do to fix it.. they wanted to make rifts change the weather in a MASSIVE already existing area of the game (your a fool if you say caves isn’t 50% of the game..) 

Also Dead Island and Gotham Knights is Drop In/Out Coop too, the difference is that WHEN other players join.. Everyone has to be in the activation circle to start the next objective or no one starts the next objective.

DST has this large circle of light that spawns in when you leave/join a world, so it very well could have these same Activation Circles.

Think of it like adding Single player DS Adventures Mode into DST, but before you can activate the Teleportato and go to a new world, everyone needs to be near the Teleportato.

And as far as Acid rain goes it should probably have been reserved for another area of the game such as a Lunar Island sized land mass out at sea somewhere that could use the Umbralla to explore.

In it’s CURRENT form however- it pushes the so called “End Game” onto players who aren’t prepared for it & don’t have equipment to survive it.

[Tranoze]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

This doesn't work for dst as players can drop in and out at any time Kiel can't account for everyone's actions. Shall we have them police griefing? 

On those example you mentioned, we players community can communicate and work those out. We can ask webber to build their nest on where we wanted without trouble the base. We can build pig houses far from base, as it both reduce lag, and wont trouble monster friends. Good and helpful player (yes they do exist) will try their best to not hinder new comer to play.

But rift is different. Once it turned on, on public unmodded server, it cant be turned off. And it will eventually be turned on, or world reset, because there are lots of players are prepared, and ready for rift content, and they will turn on rift, for both who ready and who wasnt ready. There are worlds where people read rain book everytime acid rain, but those book readers cant online forever to help newplayers have playable cave.

10 days is just a number i suggested, it can be 5 days, and basically, 5 days of protection wont change anything to speed runner or anyone turn on rift at start, because rift also require 5 days to appear. I picked 10 days because rift is a harder content than hound or worm, so it should require longer protection time.

On my own experience, i have seen atleast 20 corpses of players, seem like they dont explore much, but after they join, they just set up a 2x2 farm land and stay near portal and just farm, and die to brightshade. If they joined a world without rift, atleast they woulda have a happy weekend hour playing harvest moon in DST.

[Ulisesvolador]

16 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

-Snip-

That sounds like a bad way to "fix" it, there are many problems with that "fix".

Scenario 1a: Host kicks everyone and activates rifts.

Scenario 1b: Host kicks people that are not in the "circle" and activates rifts.

-Only unmoderated servers "benefit" from the fix-

Scenario 2a: A group of people in a public server wants to activate rifts, but there's 1-2 people that are new to the game and they don't even know what the circle is, the group of people leaves as they can't progress.

Scenario 2b: Everyone in the server is more or less ready to activate rifts, but some people don't know English, so they can't know when everyone will gather together to activate rifts.

The best way to solve this is adding an icon (like modded,pvp,etc.) that indicates rifts are currently active in that server, adding an in-game popup that warns people rifts have been activated, and as @Tranoze said, a grace period of 5-10 days so people can prepare to fight rifts.

[Mysterious box]

44 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

On those example you mentioned, we players community can communicate and work those out. We can ask webber to build their nest on where we wanted without trouble the base. We can build pig houses far from base, as it both reduce lag, and wont trouble monster friends. Good and helpful player (yes they do exist) will try their best to not hinder new comer to play.

But rift is different. Once it turned on, on public unmodded server, it cant be turned off. And it will eventually be turned on, or world reset, because there are lots of players are prepared, and ready for rift content, and they will turn on rift, for both who ready and who wasnt ready. There are worlds where people read rain book everytime acid rain, but those book readers cant online forever to help newplayers have playable cave.

The thing is player communication can solve the rift issues as well. There's nothing stopping a player from giving new players the gear they need to survive as well as teaching them how to survive if players are nice enough to do one it doesn't make sense they wouldn't do the other.

 

47 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

10 days is just a number i suggested, it can be 5 days, and basically, 5 days of protection wont change anything to speed runner or anyone turn on rift at start, because rift also require 5 days to appear. I picked 10 days because rift is a harder content than hound or worm, so it should require longer protection time.

Again how do you expect kiel to implement this? This isn't a case of kiel telling a mob to not spawn on a player are you really expecting them to code it so that multiple active mechanics work differently in how the effect the players in the same instance based on day counts? That sounds like a nightmare for Kiel to code and I honestly doubt even with 10 days it would be enough to prepare a new player to survive the end game.

[Tranoze]

5 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

The thing is player communication can solve the rift issues as well. There's nothing stopping a player from giving new players the gear they need to survive as well as teaching them how to survive if players are nice enough to do one it doesn't make sense they wouldn't do the other

planar gears are not expensive, but also not cheap either, at the start, we barely have enough for ourself, only after 100~200+ more days we have chest full of planar craft materials. But we cant just put them in portal, because new players can just take it and leave the game, we only want to give planar gears to who willing to play the game, aka players who played atleast 5~10 days.
 

 

5 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Again how do you expect kiel to implement this? This isn't a case of kiel telling a mob to not spawn on a player are you really expecting them to code it so that multiple active mechanics work differently in how the effect the players in the same instance based on day counts? That sounds like a nightmare for Kiel to code and I honestly doubt even with 10 days it would be enough to prepare a new player to survive the end game.

For planar mobs i think players under 5 days should be immune to planar damage, player under 10 days take half the planar damage. Their base damage still apply.
These players cant have planar set yet, so they shouldnt have the penalty of armor penetration on them.

Other than that, only natural disaster like acid rain, bolder quake... that spawn locally on player can easily be reverted back to default disaster by just one day count line of code.

[Mysterious box]

14 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

planar gears are not expensive, but also not cheap either, at the start, we barely have enough for ourself, only after 100~200+ more days we have chest full of planar craft materials. But we cant just put them in portal, because new players can just take it and leave the game, we only want to give planar gears to who willing to play the game, aka players who played atleast 5~10 days.
 

 

For planar mobs i think players under 5 days should be immune to planar damage, player under 10 days take half the planar damage. Their base damage still apply.
These players cant have planar set yet, so they shouldnt have the penalty of armor penetration on them.

Other than that, only natural disaster like acid rain, bolder quake... that spawn locally on player can easily be reverted back to default disaster by just one day count line of code.

So here's the problem right here then this change isn't to help new players it's so you can put them through a rite of passage to prove if they're worthy. Even if we implemented your proposed changes they do nothing to help new players who would spawn in unable to handle what the end game demands because at the end of the day 10 days is not enough time for a player who isn't experienced enough with the end game to get good without help while on the other hand if it is a player who does know what they're doing the grace period doesn't matter.

[Tranoze]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

if it is a player who does know what they're doing the grace period doesn't matter.

Not all players are hard core like us. Once per week i have seen at least 5~6 players who return from 6 months, or years of not playing dst to be welcomed with death. There are also players who play alot but never experiences rift content because they cant defeat final boss, and when they join a world where rift unlocked, they literally cant go to cave on spring.

10 days is more than enough for them to explore around, get a hold of their map, prepare basic gears before decide what to do next.

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

they do nothing to help new players who would spawn in unable to handle what the end game demands

The new players protection system are not there to protect complete newbies. Hound wont spawn on them, but after day 10 hound spawn, and they cant 1v1 hound, they will also die. They have grass and twigs to craft torch, but if they dont know how to craft torch, they will die.
They are there to protect average players who know decent about the game, but join in too harsh environment for them to survive, when they clearly unequipped and unarmored. This is to give them the chance to continue playing the game, so when they meet a more decent player, who know about late game content, the decent player can teach them about this new danger they have to face, and how to face it.

[Mike23Ua]

All I can really say is thank god I play on Xbox where there no such thing AT ALL as Klei Official or Klei Dedicated Servers, every single world you join is hosted by a host player- and yes: You play by THEIR Rules or you find a server with settings tuned more to your liking, or host your own.

I can tell you that when I play this game in order to give my friends an enjoyable time (based on who I’m playing with and how skilled they are..) I have to toggle many features On/Off/More/Less

I played with a friend earlier who kept freezing to death in spring so I disabled rainfall so being drenched didn’t freeze em and cause sanity loss.

If your the host: You can toggle what you want on/off at anytime you desire.

While there’s currently no settings for them NOW, I expect rifts to get more customization options in the future, such as: Being able to keep the Inkblights active but turn off the Acid Rains, or reduce the frequency of Brightshade spawning.

[Frosty_Mentos]

As the world progresses I feel like no. But there SHOULD be some kind of outline around the server options that 'there be night crawlers and moonies ahead' to show that the server reached that point and before you consider joining you could be warned. Or when server is up and moon storm is active you would know when to avoid being there.

[Cloakingsumo198]

I think there should be a tag before joining so players know that the world has progressed to a certain point kinda like how you know what season it is before joining.

[Antynomity]

Add icons for stuff like active rifts and moon storms on the server list.

[Ulisesvolador]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

All I can really say is thank god I play on Xbox where there no such thing AT ALL as Klei Official or Klei Dedicated Servers, every single world you join is hosted by a host player- and yes: You play by THEIR Rules or you find a server with settings tuned more to your liking, or host your own.

I can tell you that when I play this game in order to give my friends an enjoyable time (based on who I’m playing with and how skilled they are..) I have to toggle many features On/Off/More/Less

Didn't you want Klei official servers in Xbox? What made you change your opinion?