Mighty Wolfgang Should Cost More Weapon Durability

[goatt]

Wolfgang does chore faster, and costs more of tools’ durability proportionally. That makes sense.

Wolfgang hits harder, but doesn’t cost more weapon durability.

so I would suggest a small increase in weapons’ durability cost for mighty Wolfgang. Anywhere between 20% to 50% more, considering it doesn’t buff the planar damage part of a weapon, excluding all the staffs.

 

Edited to add some context:

This suggestion is not to add a downside of wolfgang. It's to weaken a hidden perk of wolfgang.

Take misery toad for example, normal damage character will need 15 dark swords, but wolfgang only needs 8, that's 7 ds saved. That's a save on prep time for farming nightmare fuels and living logs.

Not only that, as battle time is cut in half, Wolfgang's another hidden perk is that he needs only half amount of armors too. And this is not removed. There is big save in prep time overall in Wolfgang gaming which I don't see many people have talked about.

While it's fair to cost more tool durability to do chores faster, it's an advantage to not cost more durability as the weapon were wielded by a unskilled but muscular gym rat.

But adding  20%-50% extra durability cost, this hidden perk is not removed, but weakened to a more balanced spot, probably on par with Wigfrid's natural weapon mastery save.

As @Mike23Ua mentioned below in the comments, Wes deals less damage but also cost less weapon durability, which is also fair.

 

What about Warly's food buff? Farming requires substantial time and energy. That time saved in battle and weapon durability is being made up for in other areas of the game.

 

Edit2 to add lore-related stuff

Wolfgang hits enemies harder, but he's essentially "afraid of monsters" as mentioned in in-game perks & quirks. He's not a warrior. So why does he uses weapons more efficiently? As it currently stands, he uses weapons 60% more efficient than Wigfrid.

[Mysterious box]

Kinda unrelated but this probably would have made more sense as a downside had we not gone the gym route for his downside like imagine him doing 2x damage but wasting tools and weapons at 2x as well because he couldn't control his strength. It would have even opened the door for him to get more interesting perks alongside it since people wouldn't be so up in arms about him being op.

[Jakepeng99]

I think this change is kind of fair.

The way i see it, you nerf his extreme efficency in combat, he stays as the 2nd best damage dealer(Wanda is op), but now you don't feel like you are missing a trillion things by not being him, or not being mighty.

[MondayNight]

No, ty!

Wolf's ok. No more caca suggestions on him pls. Great.

[Dragonboooorn]

then lets nerf Wigfrid and Warlys volt goat jelly and spicy foods as well lol

[goatt]

31 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

then lets nerf Wigfrid and Warlys volt goat jelly and spicy foods as well lol

Food is different. Wolfgang's current mighty form cuts all weapon usage in half. This is a hidden perk that not many people have talked about. I'm only suggesting to remove this perk rather than posting a new downside. With 20%-50% extra durability cost, it's actually still a perk compared to normal characters.

Warly's spices are different, because spice prep requires time, which makes up for the time saved. Wolfgang literally need 5 less darkswords in fighting misery toads. That's a huge perk.

Wigfrid is different again, because her perk is only 25% better, not too extreme, and she's a warrior anyways.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, goatt said:

Wolfgang does chore faster, and costs more of tools’ durability proportionally. That makes sense.

Wolfgang hits harder, but doesn’t cost more weapon durability.

so I would suggest a small increase in weapons’ durability cost for mighty Wolfgang. Anywhere between 20% to 50% more, considering it doesn’t buff the planar damage part of a weapon, excluding all the staffs.

This is actually a good suggestion! Wait let me explain..

For Wes hitting Weaker and burning through tool/weapon durability is just a waste of Weapons.

For Wendy, Hitting Weaker without Abigail (such as chopping, mining, or fighting anything Abby won’t help with..) is just burning through and wasting tools and weapons.

But Wolfgang, Deals Double Damage, so he’s getting in the full Durability usage, but going through tools/weapons faster. 

Sure you can say Wolfgang’s will just default to Hambats if this change was to ever be added.. but for more powerful weapons (like Brightshade Sword) this would be heavily impactful.

[Lardee]

I'm of the general mentality that significant and direct nerfs to characters should only be handed out in their betas. Once the character has been released, people build playstyles around the character which makes future nerfs that affect said playstyle frustrating to them while not really affecting anyone else.

IMO it would have been a good change when they first introduced Wolfgang's increased damage and MAYBE when he got his rework. However, it's been almost 2 years since his rework and many more since he was updated in original DS to do up to 2x damage at max hunger.  Within that time, all the players who main Wolfgang have developed their playstyle around weapons not draining durability at an increased rate.  I'd imagine that all it would do for those players is slow the game down and make the character more tedious.

At the same time, I could be wrong since this nerf is quite tame and doesn't affect weapons like the Morning Star and the Hambat.

[Baark0]

While the suggestion isnt a bad concept for a negative perk, ultimately its just going to make the game more tedious and less enjoyable for the people who play Wolfgang while literally not effecting everyone else, aside from the people who feel the need to take away fun from other players to satiate their need for everything to be perfectly balanced (despite the fact they have never even played the character, and never will). 

[Dragonboooorn]

1 hour ago, goatt said:

Wigfrid is different again, because her perk is only 25% better, not too extreme, and she's a warrior anyways.

literally how is she diffrent? downside for the sake of downside, but hey, dont nerf similiar x character because I actually play them and dont want them to be nerfed 

[goatt]

Just now, Dragonboooorn said:

literally how is she diffrent? downside for the sake of downside, but hey, dont nerf similiar x character because I actually play them and dont want them to be nerfed 

Wig is my favorite characters, which I have said many times in this forum throughout the years.

But I don't mind this perk being taken away.

When I suggested 25% to 50% extra, it's equivalent to 33% to 60% better weapon efficiency, still better than Wigfrids' 25%

[Mike23Ua]

30 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

While the suggestion isnt a bad concept for a negative perk, ultimately its just going to make the game more tedious and less enjoyable for the people who play Wolfgang while literally not effecting everyone else, aside from the people who feel the need to take away fun from other players to satiate their need for everything to be perfectly balanced (despite the fact they have never even played the character, and never will). 

I dunno, I mean using less resources AND finishing tasks faster are some pretty big bonuses, pair that beside Klei removing his speed boost and giving him a bunch of other perks to make up for removing this speed boost only to Reinstate this speed boost (but not revert or lessen the things that was changed because of its removal) makes Wolfgang sound like a preeetttyyy busted and OP Character.

And that’s coming from a WENDY Main.

[Dr. Safety]

If you don't like Wolfgang, don't use him.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Dragonboooorn]

1 minute ago, Dr. Safety said:

If you don't like Wolfgang, don't use him.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

wdym Wolfgang deals more damage? lets nerf his usage of weapons so he wont be so OP but dont touch X character that are also combat-themed, I actually play and care for them.

Literally whole post in a nutshell 

[Master_NiX]

I feel like this suggestion is justifiable because Wolfgang chops faster but durability cost is increased too.

[Dragonboooorn]

9 minutes ago, Master_NiX said:

I feel like this suggestion is justifiable because Wolfgang chops faster but durability cost is increased too.

I kinda dont understand this logic.

Maxwell and Wanda are good with using shadow gear, thus why they deal more damage/dont loose sanity from it. They are good at x thing theme wise and got according buffs/perks in said theme.

Wolfgang are combat-themed and instead of being good at it he should have downsides instead? literally why? 

As for Wes having more durability - hes a joke character and you shouldnt take him as example. Wendy doesnt have same mechanic as Wes, while they literally share exact same downside.

 

[Mortalbane]

Breaking weapons faster if you smash harder makes total sense.
Btw Wigfrid could use some nerfs too, and not only her.
But has anyone noticed a single nerf in recent content? It seems like it's buffing rain, and power creeps in the nearby bushes. Why nerf anyone, when bosses have millions of hp, and they don't even scale down when you are alone.
Talking about balance in a game where one character can clear 99 spider dens at the same time, and another spends 7 skill points on torch upgrades to still not being able to match the lamp.

[goatt]

5 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

I kinda dont understand this logic.

I think Wolfgang only hits harder but not fights better. He hit trees harder, but isn't using chopping tools better, so there is an improvement in speed, not in efficiency.

Wolfgang moves faster while carrying heavy objects, which is for the same reason.

He hits enemies harder, but he's essentially "afraid of monsters" as mentioned in in-game perks&quirks. He's not a warrior. So why does he uses weapons more efficiently? As it currently stands, he uses weapons 60% more efficient than Wigfrid.

[Dragonboooorn]

12 minutes ago, goatt said:

I think Wolfgang only hits harder but not fights better. He hit trees harder, but isn't using chopping tools better, so there is an improvement in speed, not in efficiency.

Wolfgang moves faster while carrying heavy objects, which is for the same reason.

He hits enemies harder, but he's essentially "afraid of monsters" as mentioned in in-game perks&quirks. He's not a warrior. So why does he uses weapons more efficiently? As it currently stands, he uses weapons 60% more efficient than Wigfrid.

Because while Wolfgang is yes, afraid of monsters, he will still take arms if it means to defend himself, or, more importanly, his dear friends? He also have his sanity aura drain reduced if hes fighting with other players, and followers, I think. And he is former trooper, judging by his quotes.

Wigfrid is like, literally a performance artist. She IS pretending to be a warrior. Wolfgang is giant of a man, AND, if you familliar with his lore, he ACTUALLY used to be a soldier at some point, unlike Wigfrid, the so called "true warrior". He does know how to use a weapon efficently.

[goatt]

4 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

And he is former trooper, judging by his quotes

Both you and I are just adding subjective details to a few quotes. So I'll make something up as evidence that he's not a good fighter.

- "Prior to his time in the Constant, Wolfgang's life revolved around one single-minded pursuit of one goal: to become the strongest man there ever was." He wanted to be stronger, not more skillful. As most martial artists would agree (I think), stronger men are not better at fighting necessarily.

As a skillful fighter, the starting item shouldn't be dumbbell, but spears and helms.

(I am not very interested in defending my arguments, because I'm just making stuff up. But I'll tag along)

 

11 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

Wigfrid is like, literally a performance artist

Yet she knows how to make better weapons and armors. And she fights and tanks better. And she even gets spirit boost from actual fighting, while we know actual fighting and stage fighting are 2 completely 2 different things. Are stage performers necessarily lack of fighting skills? No. I can imagine many of those performers have to learn substantial skills in order to perform an authentic battle.

If Wolfgang is truely a skill fighter, he should have weapon efficiency perk in all 3 forms. You can lose strength, but you can't lose skill, I imagine.

[Dragonboooorn]

14 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

Because while Wolfgang is yes, afraid of monsters, he will still take arms if it means to defend himself, or, more importanly, his dear friends? He also have his sanity aura drain reduced if hes fighting with other players, and followers, I think. And he is former trooper, judging by his quotes.

Wigfrid is like, literally a performance artist. She IS pretending to be a warrior. Wolfgang is giant of a man, AND, if you familliar with his lore, he ACTUALLY used to be a soldier at some point, unlike Wigfrid, the so called "true warrior". He does know how to use a weapon efficently.

Why yes, I do like Wolfgang and want only very best and fair things to him. #Wolfgang_live_matter

 

[goatt]

@Dragonboooorn My quotes are real too. And I said "stronger men are not better fighters necessarily". I should've said, troopers are not necessarily better fighters.

@Dragonboooorn edited a few mistakes

[Dragonboooorn]

Just now, goatt said:

@Dragonboooorn My quotes are real too. And I said "stronger men are not better fighters necessarily".

Wolfgang are both former trooper and a literall giant. idk what else I need to say to convince you in Wolfgang superiority over an actor going nuts cosplaying her role

[abrocator]

On 7/22/2023 at 10:49 PM, Baark0 said:

, ultimately its just going to make the game more tedious

But that’s what most of our balance suggestions amount to.

[goatt]

1 minute ago, Dragonboooorn said:

Wolfgang are both former trooper and a literall giant. idk what else I need to say to convince you in Wolfgang superiority over an actor going nuts cosplaying her role

If Wolfgang is truely a skill fighter, he should have weapon efficiency perk in all 3 forms. And a small increase in damage multiplier in all 3 forms, right? You can lose strength, but you can't lose skill, I imagine.