Hot take on celestial portal

[Copyafriend]

If you don’t like it. dont use it.

now i know i know, i LOVE calling for nerfs, and this seems a little hypocritical, but hear me out.

I want character centric balance, generally speaking i want a character to be good at what they’re good at, and bad at what they’re bad at. 

if a character is good at 20 things, they shouldn’t be the best at any of those things.

to me, thats balance.

so why is celestial portal some exception? 
 

the answer is: its not.

every character is still just doing what they do best, and sometimes what they do best is killing bosses

or buffing up other characters.

and you, the player, are the one making them work together so perfectly that they’re dealing literally thousands of damage per second.

you’re just powergaming, and you shouldnt balance the game around a couple of people picking the most broken combinations they can think of. You should balance it around the casual player.

the casual warly kinda needs the volt goat jelly, his downside is almost as bad as wormwood, and it isnt normally the 2.5x damage, thats only against wet targets. It’s TYPICALLY 1.5x, and you need 3 or 4 for a longer fight. It requires some real prep time and even combined with the 1.3x chili spice it doesnt even match woldgang (1.95x) and you now have to either heal with items, or have like a dozen different healing foods. You have to prep for a fight more than anyone else if you’re warly and for him, its balanced. Most of the time you’re not giving everyone a spicy volt goat jelly and some garlic powder pierogis, because thats not generally worth the effort for even dragonfly.

he’s strong, but he’s counterbalanced by the need of prep time.

You cant nerf the volt goat jelly without nerfing warly, and warly needs NO nerf.

and yeah, you COULD add a 20 day timer between switches, but would that actually prevent anything? No, it wouldnt. People would just stock up on them and switch back to their character anyway,

it would just be slow and boring, waiting to play your favorite character again.

but it wouldnt solve the “balance issue”

We could… remove the portal altogether?

well A: someone definitely spent quite a lot of money having the artists design and create all the relevant assets and code, and the orb is still relevant so we cant get rid of that.. basically most of the time “just get rid of it” is a poor idea, they spent development time and a lot of money on the relevant assets, for the most part, if its added, its here to stay.

B: it reintroduces a problem: character exhaustion. What do you do when you’re not tired of the world, but tired of playing your current character. This is an especially bad problem for megabasers and endurance players who just play the same world indefinitely more or less.

and finally C:

why would you remove… optional content.

thats right, we’re back to “if you dont like it, dont use it” but this time, with a twist ~ an explanation.

For the players who hate the celestial portal with every fiber of their being, they always have the choice of just not.

For the players who typically wont, but like having the option: hey its there.

for powergamers who just want to kill the boss as efficiently as possible: have at it bud.

its only one group who actually actively dislikes the celestial portal, for the rest, its there if they want it.

 removing the celestial portal provides no tangible benefits, it does nothing but reduce the choices for the players who do want it. It may give a little dopamine to the players who hate it, but it wont DO anything.

b b but..? Pick and swap.

hahahaHAHAHAHA

do you really think people will play WINONA mrs “can craft a little faster and make a turret” over their current favorite character, just because they cant make a few farms if they dont?

or what about warly, if people already dont want to deal with his food downside, what makes you think they’ll want to now that the choice is permanent?

it just doesnt make any real sense.

they choose not to play those characters because they dont want to.

i dont know if any of you have noticed this but

DONT STARVE IS EXTREMELY CHARACTER CENTRIC.

most people dont play, the best, or the fastest, or the most efficient.

they play their favorite.

and thats why the celestial portal is important and not at all broken.

most people would rather just play with their favorite character than switch three times to kill a boss and save… what a day? Maybe two? 

every boss that exists, can be killed bu every character that exists. It just takes a little more work.

thank you for coming to my ted talk.

[goatt]

one main principle of DST design philosophy is nothing is free (I dont remember who says it but it's one of the original creators?)

Everything power comes at a cost.

low power, little cost

- base items, such as axe, garland

- early necessity items for progression are exceptions, such as backpack (low cost, high power), lantern, science machine, etc.

high power, high cost

- night armor (high crafting cost and sanity cost)

- resetting ruins

- jelly beans (boss gate keeping)

 

Is switching character high power or lower power? high cost or low cost?

I believe is high power, is it high cost or low cost? I think it's medium cost in early game (gems from grave and cave earthquakes, moonrock also from sky, plus waiting time), medium to low cost in late game (gems and moonrocks are plenty in late game).

To say the least, switching character is unbalanced.

 

 

[Copyafriend]

54 minutes ago, goatt said:

Is switching character high power or lower power? high cost or low cost?

This is where your theory more or less breaks down.

you are working under the assumption that the celestial portal is a “switch to warly or winona” device 

Basically idol go in power go out.

and thats not its primary purpose.

its primary purpose is to switch from one character that you enjoy playing, to another you enjoy playing.

you’re looking at it from a pure “value” perspective, which in my opinion is inherently flawed for this kind of discussion.

you CAN use the celestial portal to pull some pretty funny feats with, and beat bosses with unprecedented ease.

but thats not what people use the celestial portal for.

i mean i’m sure some people do, but most people arent going to powergame and prep 20 volt goat jellys and bundling wrap them and use them to get carried throughout the rest of the game.

my evidence: well

every playthrough or streamer that i’ve ever watched. 
 

and most people ive talked to on the forums.

 People complain about the possibility of it, but no one seems to actually do it.

probably because for the most part, people dont want to just cheese bosses, they want to play the game.

So yeah, in conclusion, your reasoning feels flawed to me because its looking at it from a pure “how easy is it to achieve” perspective and not looking at how people actually approach the portal.

which is to say, theres only a problem if you cant control yourself into “accidentally” powergaming.

[goatt]

1 minute ago, Copyafriend said:

you are working under the assumption that the celestial portal is a “switch to warly or winona” device 

No. I want to switch to willow and still playing the current world with everything I've earn without having to explore a new map and enjoy the megabase i have built along the way.

That's why it's so "value"-able.

I think I deserve a ceremonial boss to get a ticket to switching characters.

I'm just describing my own playthrough in public servers.

[Copyafriend]

4 minutes ago, goatt said:

No. I want to switch to willow and still playing the current world with everything I've earn without having to explore a new map and enjoy the megabase i have built along the way.

That's why it's so "value"-able.

I think I deserve a ceremonial boss to get a ticket to switching characters.

I'm just describing my own playthrough in public servers.

And what “value” is created in a non meta sense?

like what gain is there in switching to a completely normal character to just enjoy the game?

there is no value outside of player enjoyment as far as i can tell.

but i mean yeah having to fight a boss for it could be cool, so long as there isnt a respawn timer or something.

[Cuernito.]

Sorry but you are wrong, this doesnt show you as a little hypocritical, this actually show you as a big hypocrital.

The thing is the portal has been a strong device from the start but since a lot of people just play with friends or play short runs in pub im pretty sure almost all people dont use it. This thing is the strongest **** in long runs but almost all people just forget about its existence cause of what i wrote before. And yeah i myself think that the switch mechanic needs a cooldown, if you think about it you would understand. Right now all optional bosses has a cooldown of some days or even seasons, this is cause those bosses give strong stuff like armors, weapons... Now why something like the portal that can make your character damage multiplier turn 1 to 2, that can give you the knowledge to make strong catapults, that can give you the power over all merms and even give you the powerful warly dishes doesnt have any drawbacks?, do that sounds fair or even balanced at all? i dont think so, and since you like to post about your opinion wanting or justifing  a nerf i want to do the same as well c:.

i see the portal as a way to experience other characters without making a new run so i can use them without being afraid of died or mess the run, but right now people who use the portal just like to abuse the mechanic and even worse this thing is the reason some people in this forum call winona and warly swap character, im pretty sure with a cooldown or any drawbacks players will think twice before changing a character just to use the powerful mechanics of that character for just a moment.

[goatt]

1 hour ago, Copyafriend said:

And what “value” is created in a non meta sense?

Every item, power, cheese has its upper bound and lower bound. We don't say night armor is a weak item because it doesn't help a new player win a battle (lower bound). And we don't say night armor is a weak item because pro can dodge every attack and doesn't need night armor (lower bound). Night armor is most useful because in worst case, it provides 95% damage reduction for a big durability (upper bound).

The "value" can be determined by player base. The upper bound and lower bound is also determined by player base and their creativity, sometimes. When a player create a new strategy that utilizing constant switching characters to make life extremely easy, and if that upper bound has broken the current balance that the game wants to maintain (i don't know what that balance is), that it has to go.

For example, cheese that allows you to avoid fw cage by standing at the edge is a cheese that break the balance that the game wants to maintain.

How do you know about balance?

Balance is maintained by the game dev behind the scene, so I wouldn't know. The goal of game design is to influence players' choice, encouraging something, and discouraging something, also forbidding something. Game design doesn't allow an overpowered item to exist to let people "If you don’t like it. don't use it", because the game needs to influence players choice. Players freedom in game is essentially an illusion that makes players feel fun and entertained. In game design, "If you don’t like it. dont use it" is a wrong way to approach the topic. Devs should control players' choices so that players can feel a certain way.

(There is a shift in balance as of now, which can be seen in 2023 roadmap, which is also reflected in recent updates)

 

The upper bound of portal is switching character for convenience. One major example most (potentially exploitive) players will definitely do is Krampus farming. I've personally farmed Krampus without Wickerbottom. But I failed to encounter anyone in public servers who goes at Krampus without Wickerbottom. They always switch, and switch back. And I've encountered numerous non-warly players who mysteriously carried spiced voltgoat jellies and gave them out to everybody before boss fights. And quite sometimes, people ask, "should I switch to winona to setup catapults for BQ". Sometime ago, it was "should I switch to wickerbottom to set up a tentacle trap for BQ". Also "can you switch to wickerbottom to charge me? I have enough materials for 6 lightning books". Nowadays, some, if not many, Wandas use idols to get time pieces for convenience.

I think your perception is biased. I think streamers (consciously / subconsciously) know their choices in game influence their image. If they always switch characters for convenience, their online presence might not be as good. I dont know, I dont watch stream so I'm purely making things up as I go. But I think using streamers as example is biased.

Portal is "high power" because of its very tall upper bound. To prevent such exploitation, one suggestion is that switching has cooldown. It works because it prevents players to switch twice in a short time, which is what most exploitive players do, despite the associated downside of said suggestions. I currently don't have a perfect solution. But the exploitive nature and the high power of switching characters are undeniable. For example, by switching to warly to cook special food, every "normal' characters suddenly also have wolfgang buff. They do get to enjoy their "normal" favorite characters, but the balance is rather broken to some extent.

Is this enough to break the balance maintained by developers? I don't know, because I'm not them. But as a player, it's enough for me to conclude that it's exploitive, from game design point of view as well as from an outsider's point of view. Now with customizable skill trees, I think portal switching will be even more common for utility reasons.

[Evelo]

I am pretty sure the regular fourmites know I abhor the Celestial Portal by now. After reading through everything you stated, I have effectively conceded. I don't agree but the Celestial Portal is here to stay no matter how much I dislike it. Yes,

2 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

do you really think people will play WINONA mrs “can craft a little faster and make a turret” over their current favorite character, just because they cant make a few farms if they dont?

wont change their behavior. I feel limiting the use of said unique crafts to only activate whilst the character is nearby would be a more elegant solution but people will find a way.

My major issue with the CP is choice. It has been pointed out that I may be projecting based on my past. I played a lot. and I mean A LOT of World of Warcraft. stopped in 2021 started in 2005. The reason I bring this up is because over time the game has shifted more and more towards optimizing for player performance, rather than what is most fun to the individual. Going to fight a boss that requires certain talents? Swap them out for those talents. Doing different content? Swap it out!

The identity of each character became more and more homogenized. No longer was I a Holy Priest devoted to heal others, instead I was a shadow priest when alone, or a discipline priest because it was objectively better than holy. Sure I could have stayed holy and performed slightly worse while having more fun and still defeating the bosses all the same.

However the community judged that because I was playing not the meta, I deserved to be shamed and ridiculed for my decisions. This level of meta focus went so far over the years that even the most casual of situations I experienced, I was deigned to do what the "best players" do else I was not allowed to play. For a game so heavily focused on co-operation my fun was being squelched by others because if I wasn't playing what was "optimal" regardless of my personal skill, I was deemed worthless.

I do not want this to happen in DST. Maybe in my deep hatred for the Celestial Portal I might be the cause of what I want to avoid the most. I want to avoid situations where people feel pressured into taking certain skills then swap them out later because it is more "optimal" to do so given a situation. Let players play their favorite characters that leans heavily into the character fantasy not an amorphous blob of all the character's skills that is considered optimal.

Again and I cannot repeat this enough times, "maybe in my deep hatred for the Celestial Portal I might be the cause of what I want to avoid the most." Because I don't know. No one can accurately predict the far future. Hence why I have conceded in the fight to fix the balance issues with the Celestial Portal. If Klei wants to encourage the use of the CP with skill tree changes, let them. I hate it with every fiber of my being but it is their game. I am only as strong as my voice, if my voice is muffled by the cheers of others then so be it. That's how the world works after all.

I love you Wormwood, I really wish you didn't have a skill line dedicated to being swapped out with the CP whenever. Just make it a damn structure everyone can craft...

[Mysterious box]

12 minutes ago, Evelo said:

However the community judged that because I was playing not the meta, I deserved to be shamed and ridiculed for my decisions. This level of meta focus went so far over the years that even the most casual of situations I experienced, I was deigned to do what the "best players" do else I was not allowed to play. For a game so heavily focused on co-operation my fun was being squelched by others because if I wasn't playing what was "optimal" regardless of my personal skill, I was deemed worthless.

I do not want this to happen in DST. Maybe in my deep hatred for the Celestial Portal I might be the cause of what I want to avoid the most. I want to avoid situations where people feel pressured into taking certain skills then swap them out later because it is more "optimal" to do so given a situation. Let players play their favorite characters that leans heavily into the character fantasy not an amorphous blob of all the character's skills that is considered optimal.

Again and I cannot repeat this enough times, "maybe in my deep hatred for the Celestial Portal I might be the cause of what I want to avoid the most." Because I don't know. No one can accurately predict the far future. Hence why I have conceded in the fight to fix the balance issues with the Celestial Portal. If Klei wants to encourage the use of the CP with skill tree changes, let them. I hate it with every fiber of my being but it is their game. I am only as strong as my voice, if my voice is muffled by the cheers of others then so be it. That's how the world works after all.

I love you Wormwood, I really wish you didn't have a skill line dedicated to being swapped out with the CP whenever. Just make it a damn structure everyone can craft...

I mean to be fair this problem does still exist in dst and I've personally witnessed and experienced it however it isn't as common for now at least mostly because meta picks are usually more fun to play or take too long to matter in most play sessions. I do however feel like skill trees could make that more pronounced if character balance isn't handled well enough by the end of these skill trees.

16 minutes ago, Evelo said:

love you Wormwood, I really wish you didn't have a skill line dedicated to being swapped out with the CP whenever. Just make it a damn structure everyone can craft...

This does still bother me and more people in other places are starting to raise concerns over this so who knows maybe it will be changed.  

[_zwb]

2 hours ago, goatt said:

I dont remember who says it but it's one of the original creators?

It's Kevin Forbes

And they broke that design philosophy in Hamlet by giving you infinite light for free on day one

[Copyafriend]

1 hour ago, goatt said:

something. Game design doesn't allow an overpowered item to exist to let people "If you don’t like it. don't use it", because the game needs to influence players choice.

Incorrect. Game design allows for overpowered things all the time for the purposes of allowing a little thing called “fun”

Plenty of games leave in glitches that instakill bosses because players have fun doing it that way, and you’re not going to do it on accident.

basically, you can always look up how to break and cheese the final boss if you want, but most people wont because its not always the fun option to basically disable the boss.

1 hour ago, goatt said:

Devs should control players' choices so that players can feel a certain way.

Is accurate and good… for a linear game… most of the time

Dont starve is not a linear game, there is some progression, but its not a story game where you have to do x then y then z.

I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again SANDBOX survival. Sandbox. As in playground. You’re supposed to do whatever you want in this survival game.

this isnt project zomboid where its a carefully balanced hardcore survival game, tons of stuff completely subverts or breaks the “intended solution” that the devs do not seem to care about at all.

which is not a bad thing at all.

here’s an example, its a bit gimmicky but i think it works.

imagine if there was a death lazer in dont starve. 20 moonrock to make 1 idol to power. All it does is cut a bosses current health in half.

sounds broken number wise right? Well, you’re 1000% right. But. If we watched players reacting to the new lazer we see outrage.

”i cant believe klei would do this, it completely breaks the game balance”

”look at this, bee queen killed in under a minute, lmao this needs a nerf”

And klei… ignores them completely.

over time, most people just stop using it, the noobs never find the blueprint, and the pros dont use it because it cheapens their experience.

and people realize “oh this lazer also lets me change my character”

so they build the lazer, and they use it to change their character, but the people who dont like it still outcry “the death lazer is busted, remove it!!!111”

and klei ignores them.

is it because they don’t know the death lazer 9000 destroyer of bosses is broken?

no.

its because the death lazer 9000 was never really about destroying bosses, its about having fun.

if you want to nuke a boss?

do it bro, we gave you the tools.

if you wanna make it a bit easier (like switching to wigfrid) then do it, sometimes we all need a bit of help.

if you wanna power game, go for it. Hit the boss with all three lazers and enjoy a boss with an sixth of its regular health, you know you basically cheated, but you also know THEY DONT CARE.

Thats the real truth. Klei isnt trying to perfectly balance the celestial portal.

just like they’re not balancing dragonfly larvae pathfinding, or letting them attack walls.

just like they havent patched out fire farms for bee queen, or just making 40 bunny houses and farming her forever (thats pretty easy idk if you noticed lmao)

they havent patched bee mine crab king

and they havent patched celestial portal.

they let you cheat if you want to, its up to you to decide whether you want to exploit the game mechanics or just have fun

[Popian]

3 hours ago, Evelo said:

However the community judged that because I was playing not the meta, I deserved to be shamed and ridiculed for my decisions. This level of meta focus went so far over the years that even the most casual of situations I experienced, I was deigned to do what the "best players" do else I was not allowed to play. For a game so heavily focused on co-operation my fun was being squelched by others because if I wasn't playing what was "optimal" regardless of my personal skill, I was deemed worthless.

I do not want this to happen in DST. Maybe in my deep hatred for the Celestial Portal I might be the cause of what I want to avoid the most. I want to avoid situations where people feel pressured into taking certain skills then swap them out later because it is more "optimal" to do so given a situation. Let players play their favorite characters that leans heavily into the character fantasy not an amorphous blob of all the character's skills that is considered optimal.

I don't think you have to worry about this. DST's challenges do not require as much coordination and commitment as RPGs because any character does not have to rely on another to manage their own weaknesses. Someone who builds the Celestial Portal, efficiently character swaps, beats everything on their own, gets bored and leaves is not going to ask you to play differently. And perhaps if on the off chance you are not busy with something you are asked if you want to perform some cool character synergy, maybe it'd be fun?

In most cases, the commute to the portal is less convenient than getting a task done. Looking through Steam Community screenshots you will find that groups that are beating Ancient Fuelweaver and Celestial Champion are not exclusively composed of Wanda, Maxwell, Wolfgang, or Wurt.

 

I do find the cost per swap a bit too cheap and potential swap rate could be limited a bit more, but it's also fine as it is for being more exploitable mid-late game.

[goatt]

 

2 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

Game design allows for overpowered things all the time for the purposes of allowing a little thing called “fun”

I want to clarify that, by "overpowered", I don't mean from player's perspective, but from game design's perspective. All the items that are currently in the game are not overpowered from game design perspective. Otherwise, they will be changed. They even attempted to change weremoose's smash damage from 136 to 119 when it weren't preceived as overpowered by players. Players and devs have difference perspectives about "overpower".

 

2 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

4 hours ago, goatt said:

Devs should control players' choices so that players can feel a certain way.

Is accurate and good… for a linear game… most of the time

I'm not a game dev, everything I said is based off this video. It's MDA model mentioned in the video. (Mechanics -> Actions -> Feelings).

When I watched some clips of DST devs talking about game, they were talking about how they design the game so that players will feel certain ways, by choosing or giving up certain styles, mechanics, item designs, etc. So I believe that's how they think.

I don't really feel like writing a summary of the video, that's me being lazy in this communication. But the way introduced in the video is a better way of approaching the topic. I think switching characters is such a mechanic that's been given so much freedom that different players feel differently about it, some of whom even see it and use it for its exploitive nature.

I believe it's the same reason they nerfed gunpowder (damage cooldown) when gunpowder was an item legally allowed in the game. The cooldown thing is not intuitive to players because why would gunpowder normally have cooldown, but the cooldown was implemented to control players' behavior.

I believe every "bug" that's not being fixed was left untouched intentionally. They've seen the "bugs" being reported, they must have discussed about it. They might change them in the future because of the shift in their perspective, as they do now in 2023 roadmap.

I think you perspective was as a player.

[-Variant]

I've got no real genuine feelings on this but I did want to mention something...

7 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

If you don’t like it. dont use it.

This is very dismissive to people in both parties.
While there are plenty of things you can simply not use, I don't think it's ever fair to use this in defense of something, especially when it comes to reviews and criticism.
Applies to most everyone.

[Mr Giggio]

So many rules about what the game is and what the game isnt, how to play the game, and all this time u didnt realize that your perception of it doesnt have nothing to do with the real one

At all

Chill about the gatekeeping and let people do their thing in a sandbox

x

[Evelo]

2 hours ago, -Variant said:

I've got no real genuine feelings on this but I did want to mention something...

"If you don't like it, don't use it."

This is very dismissive to people in both parties.
While there are plenty of things you can simply not use, I don't think it's ever fair to use this in defense of something, especially when it comes to reviews and criticism.
Applies to most everyone.

Thank you so much Variant. Open discussion is important and healthy.

[Copyafriend]

I was not trying to prevent open discussion, more trying to convey what i mean when i typically say “if you dont like it, dont use it”

though it shouldnt be chanted like a mantra, or be used as a catch all counterargument, there is a very real point to what is being said.

That being that limiting it limits it for everyone, but letting it be used freely allows people to monitor themselves, which as far as i can tell, generally works out.

it just, to me at least, already inspires a level of self policing that works fairly effectively to prevent an excess of abuse of the portals powers.

[Mike23Ua]

I can only speak as an Xbox player, but over on Xbox we do not have Klei official or Klei dedicated servers, so every world that is hosted is Player Hosted.

this means that joining ANY WORLD is a mixed surprise bag of what will actually be toggled on/off more/less etc.. This is the definitive Xbox Player Experience.

I once played in a world for 4 hours before (when I actually wanted to go insane) realizing the host had shadow creatures turned off.

The if you don’t like it don’t use it argument really only applies to public servers, because on Xbox it’s more of “Your World, Your Rules..” 

I can turn off the Terrarium and players won’t be able to use it.

Sure I suppose you can say it’s forcing people to play by your rules.. But I think it would be better if Klei just gave these settings more control-

Id rather join a world where Webber is actually banned from being selectable, then to join a world as Webber and getting banned cause the host didn’t want Webber in their world.

You actually CAN (sort of) disable the Celestial Portal by removing the Postern from your game world completely, but when you die you can still switch characters without the hassle of sacrificing gem idols to the Postern.

Having an actual way of disabling character swapping wouldn’t kill the game. And for Xbox players in particular: it’s no different from joining a world where the host has nightmare creatures turned off the whole time your playing.

[Cassielu]

You're missing the middle ground: I like to find more efficient ways to work within the game, but I also like the different characters and the different experiences they bring to the game, I just don't want them to damage each other so much.

[GelatinousCube]

7 hours ago, -Variant said:

I've got no real genuine feelings on this but I did want to mention something...

This is very dismissive to people in both parties.
While there are plenty of things you can simply not use, I don't think it's ever fair to use this in defense of something, especially when it comes to reviews and criticism.
Applies to most everyone.

It is not dismissive at all in this particular case...

It's definitely not dismissive to those who like the celestial portal and don't want changes because we do like it and we do use it. Huh..?

To those who do want changes.. Just pretend it isn't there and don't use it. Honestly simple as that.

There's no game content or progression that you are blocked from. This isn't like telling someone to turn off monkey raids or rifts or whatever if they don't like them because that would result in missing out on items, progression etc. Yeah you can argue they miss out on having multiple character specific crafts or structures but they WANT that. They want to be restricted to one characters abilities and limitations.

I agree this doesn't hold up in many other situations but when it comes to these players wanting the celestial portal nerfed or removed  simply because they don't have the self control to not use it even though they supposedly hate it or wanting to force others to play the way they want this argument is perfectly valid and not dismissive at all. 

[-Variant]

2 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

To those who do want changes.. Just pretend it isn't there and don't use it. Honestly simple as that.

This is what I meant by dismissive. 

I feel like it's okay for people to not enjoy content that's in the vanilla game.
It's equally okay to like it as well!
It's a forum, talking about the game's the point, ahaha- Seriously though! 

It's a bit unfair to tell someone to pretend a part of the game doesn't exist if they don't like it.
Yes, of course, you can look past something you dislike, and in most cases, you should! No use getting worked up over something you don't like, but that's better suited when you're actually in the game playing, rather than discussing the game on the forums.
Of course, people should be fair with their criticism, it goes both ways. Always did.

[GelatinousCube]

1 minute ago, -Variant said:

This is what I meant by dismissive. 

I feel like it's okay for people to not enjoy content that's in the vanilla game.
It's equally okay to like it as well!
It's a forum, talking about the game's the point, ahaha- Seriously though! 

It's a bit unfair to tell someone to pretend a part of the game doesn't exist if they don't like it.
Yes, of course, you can look past something you dislike, and in most cases, you should! No use getting worked up over something you don't like, but that's better suited when you're actually in the game playing, rather than discussing the game on the forums.
Of course, people should be fair with their criticism, it goes both ways. Always did.

You still aren't getting it. 

Making the changes that some are requesting for the celestial portal, the more extreme ones that is like being removed altogether or being one use per character are extremely dismissive of the HUGE amount of players who use and enjoy the portal. They are selfish and asinine suggestions. 

The reason we are saying don't like it don't use it is because the changes they are suggesting are radical and would be highly damaging to most of the player base. The most vocal of these players aren't constructively discussing and suggesting a limit of character swapping once every twenty days for example. If they were in all honestly I wouldn't be dismissive of them and simply saying don't like it don't use it. I honestly wouldn't mind character swapping being slightly harder to do so often. Those who are suggesting compromises and realistic options aren't being told don't like it don't use it (not by me at least) but these absolute jabronis that want every single DST player to be forced to play the same way as them? (Or sorry same way they want to play because apparently even though they despise the portal they still use it - what a bad joke..) Yeah they're not going to get any respect or reasonable discussion from me. 

[ApoIIo]

12 hours ago, NekoSoulx said:

Now why something like the portal that can make your character damage multiplier turn 1 to 2, that can give you the knowledge to make strong catapults, that can give you the power over all merms and even give you the powerful warly dishes doesnt have any drawbacks?, do that sounds fair or even balanced at all? i dont think so, and since you like to post about your opinion wanting or justifing  a nerf i want to do the same as well c:.

i see the portal as a way to experience other characters without making a new run so i can use them without being afraid of died or mess the run, but right now people who use the portal just like to abuse the mechanic and even worse this thing is the reason some people in this forum call winona and warly swap character, im pretty sure with a cooldown or any drawbacks players will think twice before changing a character just to use the powerful mechanics of that character for just a moment.

Nerfs aren't done to "even things out". They're implemented to preserve a coherent gameplay, and a nerf to the CP would add absolutely nothing to the game besides a slight rush of dopamine to people who already refuse to use it.

 

Where do you draw the line of "abuse"? Also a very sketchy term imo. Do you think it actually means anything to wait 20 days to swap back from a design mistake? Being a "swap character" was the biggest buff to winona and warly, they actually get out of the basement now. Like five people would play them over their favorites if the portal didn't exist.

People always act like the celestial portal is a tool that gives you the upside of every character with the drawbacks of none when like 3 characters have perks you can use on others. Except even then they're incredibly easy to do without to the point I neglect the CP until super lategame until I've ran out of things to do.

[Copyafriend]

On 7/21/2023 at 11:12 AM, Copyafriend said:

It may give a little dopamine to the players who hate it, but it wont DO anything.

 

11 hours ago, Bearger Enjoyer said:

slight rush of dopamine to people who already refuse to use it.

Just wanted to point out this, I thought it was funny, that is all

[Mike23Ua]

Bruh… as of a very recent QOL update you can at any time you desire- Exit your game world and prior to relaunching it, change the game mode to something else.

I feel like Klei sometimes forgets exactly what all changes they HAVE done to their game.. (understandable, DST is a massively complex game full of hidden or forgotten about features)

So in my mind: A handful of Moon Rocks and a Purple Gem Idol is POINTLESS when I can just swap game modes to something that lets me change characters without the prep work.

And with that in Mind… the Celestial Portal needs to be harder to activate in modes that actually WANT it to be harder to Activate.

Same goes for this annoying permanent Pillars argument, in the same way I can choose how fast/slow/or not at all something Regrows- I should have control over how fast or slow pillars (& other things..) Decay.

Because: As I pointed out at the top of this post as of a recent QoL, you can at ANY TIME NOW exit your world and change a whole mess of settings prior to relaunching it.

So my one desperate plea to Klei is not to make a “One Size Fits All” approach to content updates or patches.

You have a community with vastly different playstyles and preferences, but if we can flip difficulty switches/game modes, at any time our heart desires: Maybe we should consider that with any and all future updates.