I Dislike the Skill Trees: It Makes the Game Easier

[RoughCactus69]

Now I'm going to start off by saying I dislike the skill trees. For a few reasons at that. 

It completely disregards the Wilson update. "Oh Wilson's getting a new cool skill tree! He's like a scientist learning new stuff! How neat!"

Oh? Everyone is getting a skill tree? Well that sure makes his rework a kick in the butt.

 

Not only this, but I feel like with all of these updates the game keeps drifting further and further away from the "Uncompromising Survival Game" we are all told about. With ever new update they keep making the characters easier and easier to play. Making the game more and more "Compromising". I personally want the game to stay difficult. I want it to stay hard. That's why I bought the game in the first place.

 

I will say, there are ways to add skill trees and make the game hard. Because overall I think skill trees CAN be cool if they are done right. 

 

What I'm getting at is the game is losing its original charm "Uncompromising Survival Game" charm that it used to have. These are just my personal thought. If you think otherwise and you think the game is in a great spot then power to you. I personally hope the game gets a little harder.

 

Sincerely,

Cactus 

[Dr. Safety]

I feel for the Wilson thing. I wish his skill tree was more impactful, but I also remember how split the community was on him remaining perkless and liking him simply because he's a purely vanilla character. A better skill tree would have helped since it would allow people to enjoy him as a character with perks or as a vanilla character with no perks.

I wouldn't really agree that the skill trees are making the game easier though. I think that the refreshes made characters more practical and therefore "easier", but the skill trees haven't added any real power to characters. I can't really imagine someone struggling with one of the characters but being fine with them because of the new perks.

In my opinion, the only thing perks do is make characters more fun (except Wormwood, his skill tree is the Walter of skill trees). Take Woodie for example. With perks, you can use transformations so much more often now when previously they were useless outside of a few really niche scenarios.

I see why people fear characters getting OP perks that make them easier than they were, but I don't think we've seen that happen with anyone so far.

[GenomeSquirrel]

The contrary point is that the game isn’t hard, but loaded with jump scares, you exhausted the jump scares, and Klei can’t reasonably create new jump scares fast enough to disorient us.

 

Skill points do make the game easier, but mostly for people who are comfortable enough to know how mass produce mush planters, people who don’t know what they’re doing won’t know how to use the new skills well.

 

And Wilsons knew they were getting a hair above nothing, I feel sympathy for any Wilson mains who wanted something, and wouldn’t mind if he got another something, but I’m aware enough that as number of people want him to have nothing.

[RoughCactus69]

16 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

The contrary point is that the game isn’t hard, but loaded with jump scares, you exhausted the jump scares, and Klei can’t reasonably create new jump scares fast enough to disorient us.

 

Skill points do make the game easier, but mostly for people who are comfortable enough to know how mass produce mush planters, people who don’t know what they’re doing won’t know how to use the new skills well.

 

And Wilsons knew they were getting a hair above nothing, I feel sympathy for any Wilson mains who wanted something, and wouldn’t mind if he got another something, but I’m aware enough that as number of people want him to have nothing.

I guess you could say I've exhausted the jump scares. But I do think the game is getting easier. There's just so many more tools available to the player form the start that gives them so much info about the world that wasn't there at the start.

 

Scrapbook, Cookbook, Punching bag, Compendium, etc.

 

So much QOL has been added that it just makes the experience easier. Which isn't always a bad thing for some players. But I miss how it was so "unknown". I've said it before but I wish there was a difficulty slider to make enemies do more damage. Make foods give less, make nightmare creatures stronger and more common, to make foods spawn less. Either way, I feel that the game is getting easier. It doesn't solely boil down to me getting better.

 

Although I have exhausted the jump scares. You are right about that. Deerclops no longer scares me!

[Capybara007]

"The skil trees make dst easier"

[RoughCactus69]

13 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

"The skil trees make dst easier"

Hey man, believe what you want to believe. But this isn't the first thing to make the game easier. I'm not stating that this is the one and only thing making the game easier. My other comments bring up the fact that the game over time since the very first Winona update have been getting easier and easier slowly over time. The reason people mention it every update is because every update the game gets easier. Now, I know this is a good thing for the games long term health. But as I stated before. The game needs a difficulty slider to both keep OG players and new players happy. 

Sincerely, Cactus

[Ohan]

1 hour ago, Dr. Safety said:

I see why people fear characters getting OP perks that make them easier than they were, but I don't think we've seen that happen with anyone so far.

I mean.. theres tree guard idol  and curse embracer obviously. 

[MondayNight]

6 hours ago, RoughCactus69 said:

...game keeps drifting further and further away from the "Uncompromising Survival Game" we are all told about...

If I had 10 cents for each time I saw someone mentioning this line... I wouldn't amass a terribly big sum of money. But enough to buy a game or 2. At discount, because am a darn cheapskate. To gather pixel-dust in my Steam inventory, since I don't care about new games anymore.

Maybe in future DST will get truly Survival-oriented content? Hope dies last (shot in the back).

[Dr. Safety]

4 minutes ago, Ohan said:

I mean.. theres tree guard idol  and curse embracer obviously. 

Fair. The tree guard thing is probably gonna be changed in some way since it's being used way outside of its intended purpose, and the curse embracer is nice but its not completely busted. I'd say no health penalty from idols was needed. The hunger is cool I guess but it wasn't hard to just keep some snacks on you

[LitulLola]

You can up the numbers of mobs, for example nightmare creatures and up their damage...you can turn off or lessen resources and food (banana/stonefruit/kelp) etc. 

I didn't like how everything is becoming more transparent or renewable but it's what was needed for some players to stick with the game. It doesn't affect us because we already know this stuff so it's basically us wanting new players to go thru what we did which isn't really fair. 

I think the skill trees are being added for whatever is going to spill from these rifts down the road and any other threats that they have planned. If you don't like them can't you just not spend the points to unlock them???

55 minutes ago, RoughCactus69 said:

So much QOL has been added that it just makes the experience easier. Which isn't always a bad thing for some players. But I miss how it was so "unknown". I've said it before but I wish there was a difficulty slider to make enemies do more damage. Make foods give less, make nightmare creatures stronger and more common, to make foods spawn less. Either way, I feel that the game is getting easier. It doesn't solely boil down to me getting better.

 

[Evelo]

8 minutes ago, LitulLola said:

I think the skill trees are being added for whatever is going to spill from these rifts down the road and any other threats that they have planned. If you don't like them can't you just not spend the points to unlock them???

Yknow, I held this opinion for the longest time. "If you don't like it don't use it."

However as more and more updates come out it becomes apparent if you avoid all the things you don't like you haven't received an update in a long time. I detest the celestial portal and refuse to use it but it seems Klei is encouraging its use which is in direct conflict with my "I dont like it so I dont use it." How many more updates will come out that incentivize the use of something I don't like?

I suck at making arguments so apologies if this doesn't convey my meaning properly but hopefully you and others get the point. Instead of making polarizing content, that can be opted out of in which case you alienate a portion of the player base, try and make content that encompasses the whole community that (hopefully) cannot be opted out of but everyone enjoys.

[RoughCactus69]

21 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

If I had 10 cents for each time I saw someone mentioning this line... I wouldn't amass a terribly big sum of money. But enough to buy a game or 2. At discount, because am a darn cheapskate. To gather pixel-dust in my Steam inventory, since I don't care about new games anymore.

Maybe in future DST will get truly Survival-oriented content? Hope dies last (shot in the back).

If it's said so much, don't you think there's some truth behind it?

 

Alot of people obviously feel this way for a reason.

COUNTERPOINT. If I had a dime for everytime someone mentioned ME mentioning how the game is easy I'd have enough money to buy a few DST skins.

Sincerely,

Cactus

15 minutes ago, LitulLola said:

You can up the numbers of mobs, for example nightmare creatures and up their damage...you can turn off or lessen resources and food (banana/stonefruit/kelp) etc. 

I didn't like how everything is becoming more transparent or renewable but it's what was needed for some players to stick with the game. It doesn't affect us because we already know this stuff so it's basically us wanting new players to go thru what we did which isn't really fair. 

I think the skill trees are being added for whatever is going to spill from these rifts down the road and any other threats that they have planned. If you don't like them can't you just not spend the points to unlock them???

 

I don't just want to increase or decrease the amount of something in a world. I want things to do 25% more damage. I want food to give 25% less health, sanity, and hunger. I want my sanity to drain quicker.

 

Those options are great, but I personally want more.

[Dextops]

5 minutes ago, RoughCactus69 said:

want things to do 25% more damage. I want food to give 25% less health, sanity, and hunger. I want my sanity to drain quicker.

If you are good at the game those things would barely effect you and would just make things more tedious. I’d rather have this game be fun than be “uncompromising”

[CyberSkink]

4 minutes ago, Dextops said:

If you are good at the game those things would barely effect you and would just make things more tedious. I’d rather have this game be fun than be “uncompromising”

Agreed. Games are meant to be FUN!

[Arcwell]

15 minutes ago, RoughCactus69 said:

I don't just want to increase or decrease the amount of something in a world. I want things to do 25% more damage. I want food to give 25% less health, sanity, and hunger. I want my sanity to drain quicker.

This is +35%. Personally I have felt virtually no difference playing in worlds with this enabled as opposed to default worlds. You may feel differently, that's fair. We currently have no option for hunger/sanity drain as far as I'm aware.

[GenomeSquirrel]

19 minutes ago, RoughCactus69 said:

If it's said so much, don't you think there's some truth behind it?

 

Alot of people obviously feel this way for a reason.

Sincerely,

Cactus

I’d argue that game is very compromising, most problems can be answered with an equip slot, the game trained us to preemptively solve problems since night started killing us, and reinforced this over and over again across all games.

[Mr. Tour]

1 hour ago, RoughCactus69 said:

I guess you could say I've exhausted the jump scares. But I do think the game is getting easier. There's just so many more tools available to the player form the start that gives them so much info about the world that wasn't there at the start.

 

Scrapbook, Cookbook, Punching bag, Compendium, etc.

 

So much QOL has been added that it just makes the experience easier. Which isn't always a bad thing for some players. But I miss how it was so "unknown". I've said it before but I wish there was a difficulty slider to make enemies do more damage. Make foods give less, make nightmare creatures stronger and more common, to make foods spawn less. Either way, I feel that the game is getting easier. It doesn't solely boil down to me getting better.

 

Although I have exhausted the jump scares. You are right about that. Deerclops no longer scares me!

But then is not that the game was difficult in the first place, it just mean that it had a knowledge check, so the game is never gonna have this "unknown"  again regardless of any change they make (besides extra content, which considering you are on a forum, you will never experience those either)

 

And this doesn't even make sense with the changes you want, enemies dealing more damage or food spawning less is not gonna fix the "unknown" issue, it would make the game harder for new players coz veterans alredy know how to deal with all of it,  and the new players experiencing the "unknown" you once experienced are just gonna have a more anoying time

[Wonz]

1 hour ago, Arcwell said:

This is +35%. Personally I have felt virtually no difference playing in worlds with this enabled as opposed to default worlds. You may feel differently, that's fair. We currently have no option for hunger/sanity drain as far as I'm aware.

This is anti-fun fun kind of difficulty increase people call it artificial difficulty. I wish it were something like bosses using more special attacks or hounds coming in bigger numbers or spiders using warrior spider leap attack. 
How much more difficult those make game? Not at all, getting killed is less hits doesn't make someone who's good at dodging put any more effort into it if they did dodge a stronger attack. It just makes preparations for cheesy bosses like bee queen much longer. It's not harder, it takes more time so essentially it's more tedious, straight up bad and boring. 

Real difficulty change will unfortunately cost resources. 

If you want to see some true increased difficulty go play uncompromising mode mod if you haven't, they also reworked bee queen fight pretty good as well as many other bosses though I don't like how they force you to switch between cane and weapon, it's uncomfortable and won't let focus on having fun in the fight.

[Wonz]

3 hours ago, RoughCactus69 said:

I guess you could say I've exhausted the jump scares. But I do think the game is getting easier. There's just so many more tools available to the player form the start that gives them so much info about the world that wasn't there at the start.

Also this thing. The game is really easy but it feels hard for so long because it it takes long to learn all what it contains, once you've experienced eveything you know best what to do. If this game was really hard it would be insanely hard to get into, you don't want people to quit because of that, it's already not uncommon, that's why many games have tutorials. 

True higher difficulty that even good players struggle with sometimes combined with tutorial should be very good for the game I believe.

Tutorial that should introduce newbies to not obvious things like how to survive summer when you just joined, how temperature works, why it's pointless to wear hat while you have cold/warm thermal stone etc.  HOW TO TAKE SINGLE ITEM INSTEAD OF WHOLE STACKS why is it not a thing already why must older players explain it to new players? It gets them kicked after they spent 10 days there gathering things. Getting kicked due to lack of basics must be very good feeling I guess, motivating to stay and keep servers populated as well as recommend the game to friends am I right or am I right?

Difficulty due to not knowing mechanics and possibilities is not difficulty like "oh this hard but I know why" but i believe it's called "learning curve" like "oh i didn't know this could happen" or "Oh there comes giant monster in winter after i hear breathing, maybe next time I'll run out of the base".  

If you meet the ice ring deerclops variant in uncompromising mode you'll see some combination of learning curve but also it's pretty fun fight in not so straightforward way as it is in normal DST.  

[CyberSkink]

4 hours ago, RoughCactus69 said:

Now I'm going to start off by saying I dislike the skill trees. For a few reasons at that. 

It completely disregards the Wilson update. "Oh Wilson's getting a new cool skill tree! He's like a scientist learning new stuff! How neat!"

Oh? Everyone is getting a skill tree? Well that sure makes his rework a kick in the butt.

 

Not only this, but I feel like with all of these updates the game keeps drifting further and further away from the "Uncompromising Survival Game" we are all told about. With ever new update they keep making the characters easier and easier to play. Making the game more and more "Compromising". I personally want the game to stay difficult. I want it to stay hard. That's why I bought the game in the first place.

 

I will say, there are ways to add skill trees and make the game hard. Because overall I think skill trees CAN be cool if they are done right. 

 

What I'm getting at is the game is losing its original charm "Uncompromising Survival Game" charm that it used to have. These are just my personal thought. If you think otherwise and you think the game is in a great spot then power to you. I personally hope the game gets a little harder.

 

Sincerely,

Cactus 

You DO know that these skills are currently optional... Right? You can literally play the game without unlocking a single one. I personally REALLY LOVE these skill trees, ESPECIALLY WOODIE'S! Video games are meant to be FUN for EVERYONE involved. I understand that Don't Starve has roots in what you call "uncompromising gameplay", But even that wasn't that "uncompromising" once you knew what was going on and how to counter various situations. Most people DON'T want the skill trees to hinder the character. Besides, there are about a BAJILLION ways to make this game harder. If you need new content, might I suggest DST Uncompromising mode? Either way, I don't think this is the direction that Klei or the majority of the fanbase wants to go in.

[Ardyn]

2 hours ago, Dextops said:

If you are good at the game those things would barely effect you and would just make things more tedious. I’d rather have this game be fun than be “uncompromising”

Do you think "uncompromising" means it's not interesting? They are not antonyms. On the contrary, some people believe that DST and DS are interesting because they are sufficiently "uncompromising".

[LitulLola]

2 hours ago, Evelo said:

Yknow, I held this opinion for the longest time. "If you don't like it don't use it."

However as more and more updates come out it becomes apparent if you avoid all the things you don't like you haven't received an update in a long time. I detest the celestial portal and refuse to use it but it seems Klei is encouraging its use which is in direct conflict with my "I dont like it so I dont use it." How many more updates will come out that incentivize the use of something I don't like?

I suck at making arguments so apologies if this doesn't convey my meaning properly but hopefully you and others get the point. Instead of making polarizing content, that can be opted out of in which case you alienate a portion of the player base, try and make content that encompasses the whole community that (hopefully) cannot be opted out of but everyone enjoys.

That's fair.

They are working on "end game content" so you deff have to complete the end game (ie celestial portal) if you want to experience it. But they also went above that where you can spawn the rifts via settings. I don't think that the new content is polarizing in it's addition but most of it is the fact that ppl only see a small window of a much larger picture that their having a problem with. You are never going to make everyone happy no matter what you do especially when you start changing core mechanics. I hate Crab King but fight him anyway to progress, not everyone is going to like every boss, quest line or addition to the game. It's not realistic. I know that Klei knows what they are doing and they usually do things for a reason. So I trust that and just enjoy what is put out. Understanding things take time and our input will be considered when the larger pic is revealed. I'm excited they are changing things up and can't wait to see what's next. I'm still really enjoying the game.

I just don't understand why ppl complain about things that can be turned off, adjusted, not used or are unfinished. 

[Dextops]

3 minutes ago, Ardyn said:

Do you think "uncompromising" means it's not interesting? They are not antonyms. On the contrary, some people believe that DST and DS are interesting because they are sufficiently "uncompromising".

I put uncompromising in quotes because artificial difficulty like what they said is barely uncompromising, doesn’t change anything for people who are already good at the game and makes the game more of a drag. Uncompromising things shouldn’t just be a stab in the chest. It should be a stab in the chest with a band aid and a cupcake.

[Ardyn]

16 minutes ago, Dextops said:

I put uncompromising in quotes because artificial difficulty like what they said is barely uncompromising, doesn’t change anything for people who are already good at the game and makes the game more of a drag. Uncompromising things shouldn’t just be a stab in the chest. It should be a stab in the chest with a band aid and a cupcake.

The game hasn't become too drag, maybe it's just that you're not good enough. If you feel that the game is too procrastinating, you can modify the world settings or download mods from the workshop, or even point out the procrastinated parts, instead of supporting adding skill trees with more problems and controversies to characters who already have various problems and controversies.

[Dextops]

9 minutes ago, Ardyn said:

The game hasn't become too drag, maybe it's just that you're not good enough. If you feel that the game is too procrastinating, you can modify the world settings or download mods from the workshop, or even point out the procrastinated parts, instead of supporting adding skill trees with more problems and controversies to characters who already have various problems and controversies.

What are you even talking about. Adding artificial difficulty would make the game more of a drag I think the game is fine in its current state. I support the skill trees because they fixed problems with characters and are fun to mess around with. You’re also neglecting the fact I’ve critiqued skill trees because I am able to realize they have problems. Just cause something has problems doesn’t mean I can’t like it