About bosses again

[Capybara007]

To see those bosses that the community is unhappy with

I dont like any of the ANR bosses, i would also say ROT bosses but its just crab king

to me these bosses just feel like a time where the devs did not care about fun mechanics or counterplay, its just another excuse to force players to use more players

and while this isnt exactly wrong, the bosses are still horrible, beequeen in particular, even if you do it the """"intended"""" way (more players) all you do is just stun her and kill her in 20 seconds, at least toad or crab have anti multiple people attacks

and i better not see "where is <miniboss> :("

[Gashzer]

Bee queen and crab king get much easier solo when you use followers like bunnymen. Its like klei wants you to use followers for these two bosses or other players.

Followers do a decent job of replacing other players for fights but they arnt perfect.

So instead of reworking these bosses maybe an overhaul of follower control and mechanics would make using followers more appealing to the general dst community for these boss fights.

 

[bloopah]

12 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

I dont like any of the ANR bosses

In my opinion, Antlion is the only exception. But I bet it was only because he is the replacement boss for Dragonfly, who got promoted to "raid" boss status, so they HAD TO make him not impossible or unfair for a single player.

[Capybara007]

Just now, Gashzer said:

Bee queen and crab king get much easier solo when you use followers like bunnymen. Its like klei wants you to use followers for these two bosses or other players.

Followers do a decent job of replacing other players for fights but they arnt perfect.

So instead of reworking these bosses maybe an overhaul of follower control and mechanics would make using followers more appealing to the general dst community for these boss fight.

 

Yes but the question is what do you think the players and the community as a whole think of those bosses

if you asked every player, what % of them would say that they like bee queen

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Bee queen and crab king get much easier solo when you use followers like bunnymen.

Crab king does not get easier with bunnymen...

[bloopah]

7 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Yes but the question is what do you think the players and the community as a whole think of those bosses

if you asked every player, what % of them would say that they like bee queen

Crab king does not get easier with bunnymen...

Shhh... just put him on your Ignored Users list and move on from the last debacle with him.

 

[Gashzer]

9 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Yes but the question is what do you think the players and the community as a whole think of those bosses

if you asked every player, what % of them would say that they like bee queen

They generally dont like the bee queen fight, i do like the fight, but i feel like alot of people are rigid in their fight strategies for bosses. They want cane/mag plus hambat and be able to kite every boss without takin any damage if they are skilled enough. Bee queen challenges you to use a different approach instead of the basic kiting fight ideology. 

I feel improving follower mechanics will indirectly help to make people like this fight more.

9 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Crab king does not get easier with bunnymen...

As long as you let bunnymen do all the damage, crab king doesnt cast his freeze spell. You just need to freeze him and deal with claws and boat repairs... its much easier than juggling it all solo.

 

6 minutes ago, bloopah said:

Shhh... just put him on your block list and move on from the last debaccle with him.

 

This is abit of an off topic personal attack, how do i report? 

[Capybara007]

5 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

They generally dont like the bee queen fight, i do like the fight, but i feel like alot of people are rigid in their fight strategies for bosses. They want cane/mag plus hambat and be able to kite every boss without takin any damage if they are skilled enough. Bee queen challenges you to use a different approach to this fight ideology. 

I feel improving follower mechanics will indirectly help to make people like this fight more.

Im all up for klei reworking followers

I think about it this way, the more strategies a boss nullifies, the less fun that boss is

If klei made follower qol to be better against fights like, for example, toadstool, thatd be great

with that in mind, bee queen nullifies a more traditional fighting, no weird items, no exploits, no followers, just weapon, armor and healing

if you want to fight bq like that, she is crazy boring and not fun frustrating, that is why id like her to be reworked

[Mike23Ua]

I just think Klei could really benefit greatly from redesigning all the bosses- to both

Provide less challenge and feel “fair” when fought alone or just 2 players.

and provide MORE Challenge when fought with 4 or more players so they aren’t quickly melted and boring.

I can provide a ton of examples but I want to Focus on just two.

first up Twins of Terror: This Particular boss sucks… like I wanted something “Clever” such as getting the two eyes to accidentally smash into one another as they do their Ziggy, Zaggy Swipe attack attempting to hit you- they could then be left open to attack as they either A: Get Dizzy with Googley eyes, or B: Get angry at one another and attack each other for a few seconds before remembering YOU are the enemy and disengaging one another to retarget you (think of it like watching a WWE match where people are on a tag team together but they keep accidentally hitting their partner and eventually.. they start fighting each other)

My second boss I dislike is Dragonfly- Klei should redesign her Magma Ponds so that they’re sealed off with molting hot magma (similar to how ponds freeze over in winter) The amount of players engaged in the fight proximity determines how many of these hardened Magma Ponds burst open allowing her to spawn Larvae from. In Addition I’d remove the “faints for free hits if she takes enough damage”  This just makes the fight 100000x easier to do in a group then it does fighting alone..

I don’t understand How or even WHY that makes any sense.

[Gashzer]

2 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Im all up for klei reworking followers

I think about it this way, the more strategies a boss nullifies, the less fun that boss is

If klei made follower qol to be better against fights like, for example, toadstool, thatd be great

with that in mind, bee queen nullifies a more traditional fighting, no weird items, no exploits, no followers, just weapon, armor and healing

if you want to fight bq like that, she is crazy boring and not fun frustrating, that is why id like her to be reworked

Yeah but why are people wanting to fight bee queen the traditional way? 

If they rework bee queen so you will be able to kite every one of her attacks like UM bee queen. I hope klei release another raid boss that relys on you using followers to kill to fill that void.

All of the characters that have their own special followers can kill bee queen easily, this emphasises that using followers is the best approach for this fight . Webber, wendy, wurt and even willow with a few big bernies is great for getting past phase 2 which is the hardest phase in my opinion.

 

[bloopah]

19 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This just makes the fight 100000x easier to do in a group then it does fighting alone..

I don’t understand How or even WHY that makes any sense.

I believe this was their idea. To make the bosses pissbaby-easy when in a group and horrible otherwise.

[Horsheen]

35 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Bee queen and crab king get much easier solo when you use followers like bunnymen. 

God, I remember the bee queen auto farms with bunnies

[Gashzer]

6 minutes ago, Horsheen said:

God, I remember the bee queen auto farms with bunnies

Messy times, i remember people struggling to kill off wickers tentacle trap when winona was first reworked lol

Thank god for catapults

[Capybara007]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

I hope klei release another raid boss that relys on you using followers to kill to fill that void.

Again, limiting your options, why is that meant to be fun

[Notecja]

Crab King mostly needs better loots and only because of that I would like him revisited. It's not pleasurable fight, but either way there are technics to either fair kill it or cheese it. Unfortunatelly rewards itself are barely worth even reworked fight. Fuelweaver and Shadow Pieces only update in terms of pure horror, they seem scary enough to drop it.

[Baark0]

I want klei to revisit antlion so they can get rid of the stupid thermal stone requirement to fight her, it feels so bad having to waste a 100% thermal stone just so I don't have to deal with sinkholes.

Crab king also needs less spam, stunlock removed, and better loot/trident having actual cool abilities.

[Copyafriend]

3 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Yeah but why are people wanting to fight bee queen the traditional way? 

Bro ive been hardcore lurking i'll say it as plain as possible.

REQUIRING followers (or almost requiring them) is not fun to most of us. It's cool if you like it, recognize the rest of us do not like that.

No, a "follower rework" will not change my opinion about this.

[goblinball]

I never understood the hype for Klaus tbh

like the fight isn’t bad but it isn’t anything like amazing either like

ppl will go “oh the fire/ice spells summon an aoe for every player so it scaled with the amount of players that means it’s the best boss!” When the AoE attack is just very boring like you just move a bit and that’s it

it doesn’t matter how many players there are the fight is not more difficult it’s just a bunch of really simple and easy aoe  

[Baark0]

2 hours ago, goblinball said:

I never understood the hype for Klaus tbh

like the fight isn’t bad but it isn’t anything like amazing either like

ppl will go “oh the fire/ice spells summon an aoe for every player so it scaled with the amount of players that means it’s the best boss!” When the AoE attack is just very boring like you just move a bit and that’s it

it doesn’t matter how many players there are the fight is not more difficult it’s just a bunch of really simple and easy aoe  

ppl like klaus cause he's the most accessible raid boss skill and progression wise. very easy and learnable kiting pattern, challenging yet fair attacks, and sure his spawn is locked to winter, but most players start in autumn so only having to wait until day 24 at the minimum to fight him isnt that bad, and in winters feast his respawn is 20 days like most other bosses. plus klaus has the loot box mechanic with the possibility of a krampus sack and bundle wrap blueprint.

I feel like werepig would be more peoples favs if he wasn't added so recently and didn't require insanity to fight him (killing the shadelings is quite annoying before you have access to bone helm)

[Antynomity]

Malbatross also needs changes, it shouldn't be all up to rng to be able to fight it if the items it drops make a good tool for farming and also great items for sailing.

[Evelo]

7 hours ago, Notecja said:

Crab King mostly needs better loots and only because of that I would like him revisited. It's not pleasurable fight, but either way there are technics to either fair kill it or cheese it. Unfortunatelly rewards itself are barely worth even reworked fight. Fuelweaver and Shadow Pieces only update in terms of pure horror, they seem scary enough to drop it.

I agree with this. While my go to strat: Fighting CK as Wormwood with bees then catching them all again, it is a lot more interesting than Bee Queen because it is just so much faster. He is more of a one and done because of the loot. I'd farm CK if he dropped better loot. I like wrangling bees, it's fun! Maybe I should do all bosses with bees? Hmm...

1 hour ago, Baark0 said:

I feel like werepig would be more peoples favs if he wasn't added so recently and didn't require insanity to fight him (killing the shadelings is quite annoying before you have access to bone helm)

I agree with this completely. Werepig is an insanely fun fight and very accessible. For the shadeling killings I eat a bunch of Lichen that lies around to go insane and gobble up some sanity food like Potato Puree or Vegetable Stinger to get back to normal. The mechanics are actually more than "smack run smack run" because you gotta bait attacks and are rewarded for it (Werepig taking a breather) so you can smack for a good long while. It feels great. ALSO the HP is low enough that it can be solo'd with a REASONABLE about of prep. (Unlike BQ, AFW, and Toadstool)

7 minutes ago, yourAnty said:

Malbatross also needs changes, it shouldn't be all up to rng to be able to fight it if the items it drops make a good tool for farming and also great items for sailing.

The fight itself is fine just spawning. So fix that and I think we are good. Just my 2 cents though.

[Antynomity]

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

The fight itself is fine just spawning. So fix that and I think we are good. Just my 2 cents though.

Yeah that's what I meant, should have worded that a lil better.

[Zeklo]

Nightmare Werepig's regeneration paired with cave darkness is what knocks the fight down for me.

Otherwise, I really enjoy the actual mechanics of the fight.

[_zwb]

12 hours ago, Gashzer said:

This is abit of an off topic personal attack, how do i report? 

Ironically, you use personal attacks in your comments very often, and never responded when people point that out.

[Gashzer]

2 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Ironically, you use personal attacks in your comments very often, and never responded when people point that out.

I attack klei or peoples opinions. I dont think ive made a comment that sololy focuses on attacking people tho.

Ive called someones idea dumb but not the person themselves. 

The one exception that comes to my head was saying that ducks or everyone with ducks megabase mentality is ruining dsts updates. Which is still just me insulting their DST playstyle not them as a person so it was on topic lol

[_zwb]

3 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

I attack klei or peoples opinions. I dont think ive made a comment that sololy focuses on attacking people tho.

Ive called someones idea dumb but not the person themselves. 

The one exception that comes to my head was saying that ducks or everyone with ducks megabase mentality is ruining dsts updates. Which is still just me insulting their DST playstyle not them as a person so it was on topic lol

I guess I have to go off topic sometimes...

Attacking their opinions merely moves you from ad hominem to responding to tone, and you're not even doing that.

I don't think calling people who dislike a boss "lazy veterans" is not personal attack.

Also I think once you said I have skill issues just because I complained about fuel weaver spamming his immunity shield, did that address the issue and not attack people?

Ok enough off topic nonsense, back to boss design topic.