Antynomity Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Gashzer said: snip What? What? What are you talking about? Oh my god people are better than me and use less resources meaning they are lazy? Is that what you're talking about? Just because she forces a different strategy doesn't mean it makes her a good boss, especially if that strategy is grinding for followers, she's bad not because it's hard to kite her but it's because it's literally impossible to kite her while keeping the fight at a reasonable pace and length + the lengthy prep. There's a balance between lengthy prep and being good enough at timing your attacks and dodges to save on resources, if every boss was like bee queen I would never try to kill the bosses because of how annoying all of them would be to deal with. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 3 hours ago, Gashzer said: Same with on tentacles. The bug isnt being able to wall over broken walls its manipulating the spawning of tentacles with the broken walls. You literally said 19 hours ago, Gashzer said: Tentacles not spawning on structures is intended... but walking on structures with your character isnt intended as they block your movement too. Contradicting yourself and walking back claims because what you said gets easily refuted... You logic is inconsistent. It seems more like you are just writing things off you don't like as "bugs" and believing only things you do are "intended." I'm done, gl with that lol Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
_zwb Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Gashzer said: Lazy veterans And like 10 pierogis max. Straight up ad hominem. Bravo. You do know bunnymen attack players with meat items on them right? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashzer Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, _zwb said: Straight up ad hominem. Bravo. You do know bunnymen attack players with meat items on them right? Haha woops, i dont make pierogi at all i just use healing salves tbh but 10 trail mix or whatever healing 21 minutes ago, Shosuko said: You literally said Contradicting yourself and walking back claims because what you said gets easily refuted... You logic is inconsistent. It seems more like you are just writing things off you don't like as "bugs" and believing only things you do are "intended." I'm done, gl with that lol How am i easily refuted? Right if i stand on a square of broken walls and spawn tentacles it snaps the tentacle to spawn on the side of the broken wall square. I dont even need to argue if this is intended or not... because it looks and behaves like a bugged action. If its intended then its a very clunky and ugly looking way to control the spawn of tentacles, why not just rework the on tentacles to spawn in a chosen area like maxwell using his prison spell. Clearly its not intended just klei doesnt care enough to change it. 51 minutes ago, yourAnty said: What? What? What are you talking about? Oh my god people are better than me and use less resources meaning they are lazy? Is that what you're talking about? Just because she forces a different strategy doesn't mean it makes her a good boss, especially if that strategy is grinding for followers, she's bad not because it's hard to kite her but it's because it's literally impossible to kite her while keeping the fight at a reasonable pace and length + the lengthy prep. There's a balance between lengthy prep and being good enough at timing your attacks and dodges to save on resources, if every boss was like bee queen I would never try to kill the bosses because of how annoying all of them would be to deal with. Im fantastic at kiting, thank you very much haha Bee queen forces me to take hits to get the fight over with quickly like you said. Bee queen is good because she forces you to tank her. Forces you to rely on heavy marble armour rather than speed boosts. Incentivises you to bring backup. Being challenged to rethink strategies is good. Do you want every boss to be like nightmare werepig? Kite kite kite, boss get stunned, kite kite kite. The UM bee queen just looks dumb tbh. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
_zwb Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 15 minutes ago, Gashzer said: Haha woops, i dont make pierogi at all i just use healing salves tbh but 10 trail mix or whatever healing How am i easily refuted? Right if i stand on a square of broken walls and spawn tentacles it snaps the tentacle to spawn on the side of the broken wall square. I dont even need to argue if this is intended or not... because it looks and behaves like a bugged action. If its intended then its a very clunky and ugly looking way to control the spawn of tentacles, why not just rework the on tentacles to spawn in a chosen area like maxwell using his prison spell. Clearly its not intended just klei doesnt care enough to change it. Judging by the code, it is intended to not spawn on structures. There's a chunk of code for spawn point validation. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashzer Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, _zwb said: Judging by the code, it is intended to not spawn on structures. There's a chunk of code for spawn point validation. Yeah so it doesnt glitch into structures. The wall method to control tentacles abuses that fact. Thats like saying "in the code closing a fence door pushes the player so void walking is legit" yeah the door pushing you is legit, abusing that function to get past barriers is not. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloopah Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, Gashzer said: Thats like saying "in the code closing a fence door pushes the player so void walking is legit" yeah the door pushing you is legit, abusing that function to get past barriers is not. They could've coded Tentacles spawning on broken Walls but they didn't. They could've avoided coding Tentacles to not spawn on items but they didn't. Don't automatically assume that the things you don't like are exploits. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashzer Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Just now, bloopah said: They could've coded Tentacles spawning on broken Walls but they didn't. They could've avoided coding Tentacles to not spawn on items but they didn't. Don't automatically assume that the things you don't like are exploits. But there shouldnt be room for this arguement to even exist. Thats my problem with Klei. The fallout franchise motto of "is it a bug or a feature?" applies to DST too. Klei leave all these terribly implemented mechanics for so long without polishing them up, its so annoying. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capybara007 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Think about it this way, if klei released beequeen in 2023, would it be like it is now? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theukon-dos Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Capybara007 said: Think about it this way, if klei released beequeen in 2023, would it be like it is now? *Looks at Crab King* Eh, I'd say 50/50 shot. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranoze Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 24 minutes ago, Gashzer said: But there shouldnt be room for this arguement to even exist. Thats my problem with Klei. The fallout franchise motto of "is it a bug or a feature?" applies to DST too. Klei leave all these terribly implemented mechanics for so long without polishing them up, its so annoying. just go to a deserted island and play DST IRL. No bugs other than some mosquitos, all features are intended. All games have "bugs or features" motto. Even tetris have rotate right before last sec, where if it a real 3d block it cant rotate in that way. Snake games, snake doesnt increase it length instantly right when he eat food, but 1 frame after. We play games to escape from real life. It can be similar with real life in some way, but if you want game are perfect exactly like real life, why not just play real life? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashzer Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, Tranoze said: just go to a deserted island and play DST IRL. No bugs other than some mosquitos, all features are intended. All games have "bugs or features" motto. Even tetris have rotate right before last sec, where if it a real 3d block it cant rotate in that way. Snake games, snake doesnt increase it length instantly right when he eat food, but 1 frame after. We play games to escape from real life. It can be similar with real life in some way, but if you want game are perfect exactly like real life, why not just play real life? You telling me if they patched the On tentacles book so you could choose a general area for them to spawn kinda like maxwells spells you wouldnt prefer that? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antynomity Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Gashzer said: Bee queen is good because she forces you to tank her. Forces you to rely on heavy marble armour rather than speed boosts. Incentivises you to bring backup. Being challenged to rethink strategies is good. Do you want every boss to be like nightmare werepig? Kite kite kite, boss get stunned, kite kite kite. The UM bee queen just looks dumb tbh. I never wanted for her or any other boss to be like nightmare werepig, he's a good boss but doesn't mean that every other one has to be the exact same, forcing you to tank is bad because that narrows the possible strategies you can use effectively and efficiently aka makes the boss worse. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloopah Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 3 hours ago, Gashzer said: Klei leave all these terribly implemented mechanics for so long without polishing them up, its so annoying. Do they? Or are you just nitpicking with void walking and Tentacles? And don't talk to me about Toadstool. We're talking about your so-called "exploits" here. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloopah Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 3 hours ago, Theukon-dos said: Eh, I'd say 50/50 shot. I disagree. Crab King was released over two years ago. The most recent bosses were reworked Deerclops/Ancient Guardian, the Eye of Terror/Twins and the Nightmare Werepig. Only one of them (the Twins) could be considered poorly designed, and the others are generally well-recieved. I'd say 80/20 shot. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capybara007 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 5 hours ago, bloopah said: I disagree. Crab King was released over two years ago. The most recent bosses were reworked Deerclops/Ancient Guardian, the Eye of Terror/Twins and the Nightmare Werepig. Only one of them (the Twins) could be considered poorly designed, and the others are generally well-recieved. I'd say 80/20 shot. that is because they changed the mentality of "make it as difficult as possible even if it is unfun" Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theukon-dos Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 6 hours ago, bloopah said: I disagree. Crab King was released over two years ago. The most recent bosses were reworked Deerclops/Ancient Guardian, the Eye of Terror/Twins and the Nightmare Werepig. Only one of them (the Twins) could be considered poorly designed, and the others are generally well-recieved. I'd say 80/20 shot. T-Two Y-Years? Anyways, that Is a fair point. And the Twins of Terror I've suspected for a long time where a rushed, last-minute edition anyways. So yeah, Bee Queen would probably be pretty kewl. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Nick- Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Can we have a toadstool rework? Well atleast misery toadstool and his drops? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashzer Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 14 hours ago, bloopah said: Do they? Or are you just nitpicking with void walking and Tentacles? And don't talk to me about Toadstool. We're talking about your so-called "exploits" here. Yeah nitpicking. But the bugs they leave in are pretty major. Being able to cast on tentacles in a general area of your choosing would fix the need to use broken walls to setup a tentacle kill zone. Void walking is a pretty massive bug by being able to avoid navigating the most dangerous areas in the game. There shouldnt be a nice work around for this, you are cheating the hardest parts of the game. Statues blocking mobs, an invincible wall could be implemented instead of this bug if people like this feature. (Ancient fuelweaver could drop a bone fence blueprint that has an invincible shadow shield like him, maybe only other bosses can break it but normal mobs cant) there are better/ more legit ways to do things that the community enjoys. Mobs/ spider dens blocking boss mobs. Bee queen shouldnt be body blocked by any mob and if she does, she should attack and kill it not just get stuck and accept that this is her life now... Dunno if this bug still exists cause ive never used it but Ancient fuelweaver should destroy lure plants and spider dens that block him simply by bumping into them. Mental that this monster of pure darkness gets stuck in a wee spider boi den... Wortox not being able to aim his soul hop on consoles but maxwell can aim his books. Come on klei you have implemented aiming for maxwell do it for wortox too. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloopah Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, Gashzer said: there are better/ more legit ways to do things that the community enjoys. Such as... spawning Tentacles on broken Walls and using Statues as impassable walls? If you speak for the entire community then you're completely wrong. People enjoy it because it makes things easier. Why take it away from them? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antynomity Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 2 hours ago, bloopah said: Such as... spawning Tentacles on broken Walls and using Statues as impassable walls? If you speak for the entire community then you're completely wrong. People enjoy it because it makes things easier. Why take it away from them? They also enjoy it because it makes creating farms fun and feasible I guess? Look at the damned varg farm lol Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theukon-dos Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 2 hours ago, bloopah said: ~~Snip~~ 25 minutes ago, yourAnty said: ~~snip~~ Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloopah Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Just now, Theukon-dos said: Schrödinger's Troll: we can't know if someone is a troll or just extremely dense until he says so. And I'm having a laugh at the horrible opinions he expresses. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashzer Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 4 hours ago, bloopah said: Such as... spawning Tentacles on broken Walls and using Statues as impassable walls? If you speak for the entire community then you're completely wrong. People enjoy it because it makes things easier. Why take it away from them? Yeah im all for keeping these mechanics, just make a legit craft for it 1 hour ago, bloopah said: Schrödinger's Troll: we can't know if someone is a troll or just extremely dense until he says so. And I'm having a laugh at the horrible opinions he expresses. How low the dst community has fallen that they are defending stupid bugs I want Klei to work for the money i spend on skins. How is that a problem? Lol Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antynomity Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 4 hours ago, Theukon-dos said: Yeah that's why I didn't quote anything from them today and didn't plan to anymore because it's just repeating the exact same thing over and over again lmao Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148642-my-concept-for-bee-queen-rework/page/3/#findComment-1643412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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