New content is not progression

[Mysterious box]

46 minutes ago, firoborn said:

What? Plenty of survival mechanics where added to the ocean we got wavey Jones, terror claws, pirate raids (even with the nerf), sharks and the plant things like I would argue that the ocean itself is the most dangerous place you can be in.

Pirate raids are rare and even then so long as you stay out of their area of operation their non existent, terror claws were introduced to make fighting nightmare creatures at sea easier and more fair, those plants don't mess with you unless you mess with them first, sharks aren't very common and only appear in deep water, Wavey Jones is a pretty lackluster threat tbh unless your intentionally doing things that would make him more dangerous like going full speed at low sanity in the middle of the night while insane or something. People often go to sea for a break because it's so relaxed out there with various mechanics just not applying to you it's the appeal of boat basing a safe zone with not much to worry about.

[Theukon-dos]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’d love for people to tell me EXACTLY why they don’t feel like the Lunar/Shadow Rifts & Gear are “Progression”?

Because it doesn't really matter much? At all? 

Not only are the rifts themselves completely optional, but as I've talked about *sigh* to much, they're currently entirely self-serving in their mechanics. Oh wow, a sword that deals the exact same damage as my current sword, but is better able to hit the monsters that I only summoned to make this sword in the first place. I know that Klei's said they want the sword to get stronger later on. But quite frankly I find the idea that neither the Celestial Champion or Ancient Fuelweaver are late-game enough to justify stronger weapons. Even just ~80 damage would be worth it sense that puts Hounds into 2-shot range for most characters and lets Wigfrid hit the 100 damage threshold. 

1 hour ago, firoborn said:

What? Plenty of survival mechanics where added to the ocean we got wavey Jones, terror claws, pirate raids (even with the nerf), sharks and the plant things like I would argue that the ocean itself is the most dangerous place you can be in.

Cool, cool. Now give me a good reason to go sailing in the first place. Sure, you could argue that there are """Survival""" mechanics out there, but if there's nothing worth it, then why even bother? 

[Tranoze]

23 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Celestial Champion or Ancient Fuelweaver are late-game enough to justify stronger weapons.

You dont get sword/scythe by killling AFW or CC. You get them by killing bright shade, mine crystal, kill ink, kill shadows. They are all below 2000 hp and have unique attack pattern, but consider how low hp they have and how easy/fast one can kill them with the right gears, they are just beefalo tier, around 1000 hp, fast to kill, obtain most basic resource for the new content.
Killing AFW and CC just unlock new content, not obtain it's loot.

In perspective or "together", most of the games i play i dont even have to personally kill afw or cc, other just kill them for me, and unlock rift for that world. In a world where you play alone and killing afw yourself, new content and new gears arent that great. But in a world with 8~10 players, and only 2 of them kill afw and cc, for the other 6, new content is straight up progression.

That why they added rift openable in world setting. Those ink/shadow/brightshade rift arent final boss, they are just weakest mobs among monsters klei planning to add along with rift content.
So the reward for defeat such weak ass mobs, is basic weapon and armor, yes, all gears you mentioned are just basic set, lowest tier for the new content.

[Theukon-dos]

1 minute ago, Tranoze said:

You dont get sword/scythe by killling AFW or CC. You get them by killing bright shade, mine crystal, kill ink, kill shadows. They are all below 2000 hp and have unique attack pattern, but consider how low hp they have and how easy/fast one can kill them with the right gears, they are just beefalo tier, around 1000 hp, fast to kill, obtain most basic resource for the new content.
Killing AFW and CC just unlock new content, not obtain it's loot.

In perspective or "together", most of the games i play i dont even have to personally kill afw or cc, other just kill them for me, and unlock rift for that world. In a world where you play alone and killing afw yourself, new content and new gears arent that great. But in a world with 8~10 players, and only 2 of them kill afw and cc, for the other 6, new content is straight up progression.

That why they added rift openable in world setting. Those ink/shadow/brightshade rift arent final boss, they are just weakest mobs among monsters klei planning to add along with rift content.
So the reward for defeat such weak ass mobs, is basic weapon and armor, yes, all gears you mentioned are just basic set, lowest tier for the new content.

Ok, but they are still locked behind those things, and Klei doesn't balance around world settings. 

And if Brightshade gear and the like are just supposed to be "low tier" Of the planar equipment, then what's even the point? I get it, football hats and dark swords are painfully overused. But if all the low-tier planar gear is going to be equivelent anyways, then can't we just skip that and get to the fun part? 

[Tranoze]

Just now, Theukon-dos said:

Ok, but they are still locked behind those things, and Klei doesn't balance around world settings. 

And if Brightshade gear and the like are just supposed to be "low tier" Of the planar equipment, then what's even the point? I get it, football hats and dark swords are painfully overused. But if all the low-tier planar gear is going to be equivelent anyways, then can't we just skip that and get to the fun part? 

With the new planar defense mechanic, you need to use those lowest tier or low gears to start dealing damage to high tier boss. Yes you can skip it, but a 10000 hp boss will feel like 16500 hp boss with dark sword, feel like 20400 hp if you play wolfgang. And unlike old bosses, all new boss will have their cc, block, unique attack pattern... so new gears will be needed if you plan to raid a raid boss with multiple people, so those lowest tier of gears will be a great help. That why they are easy to farm right now, you can totally equip entire server will new sets.

That not include the fact new boss will ignore old armor with planar damage. Basically klei deliver what they said they will deliver, DST 2.0, without removing DST 1.0.

[Theukon-dos]

3 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

With the new planar defense mechanic, you need to use those lowest tier or low gears to start dealing damage to high tier boss. Yes you can skip it, but a 10000 hp boss will feel like 16500 hp boss with dark sword, feel like 20400 hp if you play wolfgang. And unlike old bosses, all new boss will have their cc, block, unique attack pattern... so new gears will be needed if you plan to raid a raid boss with multiple people, so those lowest tier of gears will be a great help. That why they are easy to farm right now, you can totally equip entire server will new sets.

That not include the fact new boss will ignore old armor with planar damage. Basically klei deliver what they said they will deliver, DST 2.0, without removing DST 1.0.

Or, here me out, we take the Planar mechanics, throw them in a dumpster, pour a few gallons of gasoline over it, and them make smores over the roaring flames. 

Seriously, NONE of the mechanics of the boss will have any flavor of dependency on Planar mechanics. The only purpose it serves is to give Brightshade and Pure Terror equipment a reason to exist over Dark Swords. And again, if that's it's only purpose, why not just skip to the fun part?

[Tranoze]

1 minute ago, Theukon-dos said:

just skip to the fun part?

Umm because progression?

Else why not make every one punches for 1000000 damage and have fun with all the boss reward?

[Theukon-dos]

3 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Umm because progression?

Else why not make every one punches for 1000000 damage and have fun with all the boss reward?

But It's not progression. 

 

The bightshade gear is, for all intents and purposes, the exact same as the gear the player had already been using, arguably even worse. The only difference is that Planar mechanics are an arbitrary cutoff point because the devs got tired of people using those items. But if we're just going to upgrade them again anyways, what's even the point? 

[Tranoze]

9 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

But It's not progression. 

The bightshade gear is, for all intents and purposes, the exact same as the gear the player had already been using, arguably even worse. The only difference is that Planar mechanics are an arbitrary cutoff point because the devs got tired of people using those items. But if we're just going to upgrade them again anyways, what's even the point? 

The point is DST 2.0.
All new mobs, boss related to shadow vs moon will have planar defense/damage system making DST 1.0 equipment render useless against. There will be more equipment set. If you compare lowest tier of low set from DST 2.0 to a Tier 2 equipment from DST 1.0, yeah they are the same power level.
This is best we can get for free instead of dev making new game and people have to wait for 4 years for it to have playable content.

They exclusively dont want DST 2.0 set to be overpowered DST 1.0 boss, that why planar system exist.

[Theukon-dos]

3 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

The point is DST 2.0.
All new mobs, boss related to shadow vs moon will have planar defense/damage system making DST 1.0 equipment render useless against. There will be more equipment set. If you compare lowest tier of low set from DST 2.0 to a Tier 2 equipment from DST 1.0, yeah they are the same power level.
This is best we can get for free instead of dev making new game and people have to wait for 4 years for it to have playable content.

They exclusively dont want DST 2.0 set to be over powered DST 1.0 boss, that why planar system exist.

Do you understand how terrible you make "DST 2.0" sound? I don't want the equipment I already had to be useless; most of which was already pretty iffy. I don't want arbitrary and confusing mechanics to make all the stuff I worked towards useless. If Klei wants us to use new stuff so badly, then make stuff we actually want to use.

[Tranoze]

17 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Do you understand how terrible you make "DST 2.0" sound? I don't want the equipment I already had to be useless; most of which was already pretty iffy. I don't want arbitrary and confusing mechanics to make all the stuff I worked towards useless. If Klei wants us to use new stuff so badly, then make stuff we actually want to use.

Logically they can do alot with new set.
As void rope and void cowl are all cloth, they can make them repairable with sewing kit.
Shadow reaper should stack all items it harvest.
Shadow reaper reap should consume more durability, but can be used to do aoe attack on mobs, instead of just harvest.

Bright shade set should provide light when enlightened

[Mike23Ua]

28 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Do you understand how terrible you make "DST 2.0" sound? I don't want the equipment I already had to be useless; most of which was already pretty iffy. I don't want arbitrary and confusing mechanics to make all the stuff I worked towards useless. If Klei wants us to use new stuff so badly, then make stuff we actually want to use.

I mean there’s a Wooden Sword, A Stone Sword, A Diamond Sword, A Obsidian Sword and a Enchanted Whatever Sword in Minecraft.. You need certain swords & armors to tackle the higher tier enemies.

Klei is trying to add that new “Tier” without the weapons from that Tier Outclassing the Previous Tier.

I suppose it would’ve been better if we had Enchantment Tables to empower regular weapons with the newer element effects.

but for what it is, Planar Damage isn’t that bad- Unless you just hate the new Tier of Gear and Weapons and in that case: I REALLY Don’t Know what to tell You.

Oar<Driftwood Oar<Battle Paddle.

Its not like this is a NEW Concept for Klei.. some people are just “upset” to say the least that recruited Minions, Character Abilities, or Outdated “Farming” Designs are becoming less effective.

Personally I just want to be able to Equip Merms/Pigs/Spiders/ Whatever with Brightshade Helmets &/or Armor & Weapons so the Minions can still be useful- But you’ll need to equip them with the new Tier of Armor/Gear for them to still be useful.

[allmeitysk]

On 6/18/2023 at 4:13 PM, Well-met said:

if you're a mega baser then you can simply not activate the rifts

Right, so I will keep disabling content because i play this game as building sandbox. What a smart solution. How was I not able to come up with this