discussion Oxygen Not Included Multiplayer - Dedicated Servers - FPS, Performance issues and solution

[Jorge Junior]

Oxygen Not Included, ONI presents a lot of difficulties in terms of performance. When I open the All Star Astroids Map, it is unplayable. Wouldn't it be better if we shared this load with a remote server to prevent this?

[sakura_sk]

Remote server for what? Opening the map?

[asurendra]

You need cloud gaming service. There are some in internet already. 

[gabberworld]

run a server for game is very costly. it sounds fun but needs also funds 

[Jorge Junior]

5 hours ago, sakura_sk said:

Remote server for what? Opening the map?

Pipeline in the game, Gas Pressure, Temperature Changes etc. I mean that the processing loads are taken over by a server.

4 hours ago, asurendra said:

You need cloud gaming service. There are some in internet already. 

If you open the Star Chart and all the planets. I think the game will freeze from time to time even on cloud servers (I haven't tried it)

1 hour ago, gabberworld said:

run a server for game is very costly. it sounds fun but needs also funds 

I opened this topic because I thought that the cost of a server to take over some jobs for 10 thousand (INSTANT) Online Users is not a problem for a company like klei.

GMT +3 21:30 - 11.06.2023

[sakura_sk]

43 minutes ago, HagenAizen said:

I mean that the processing loads are taken over by a server.

Someone somewhere mentioned that you would need several GB internet connection to transfer this kind of data back and forth every second and that would be only for 1 user/one open map. That's what your desktop's CPU, SSD and RAM are for

[SackMaggie]

The Idea is good but what about latency ?

[Jorge Junior]

  

1 hour ago, sakura_sk said:

Someone somewhere mentioned that you would need several GB internet connection to transfer this kind of data back and forth every second and that would be only for 1 user/one open map. That's what your desktop's CPU, SSD and RAM are for

The goal is to reduce the workload anyway. The server will move the sample critters. Only location information will be shared with us.

30 minutes ago, SackMaggie said:

The Idea is good but what about latency ?

A center can be chosen based on the regional distribution of players. or we could open our own servers with a dedicated application in the style of Dont starve Together. 

[Farsight]

It would require a complete rewrite of the game, so it's not going to happen.

Beyond that, it would be an extremely expensive solution, since everyone is running on their own unique map. It would make more sense as a solution for a multiplayer game.

[Knurek]

I've been playing ONI on GeForce Now premium subscription for half a year now. If you want to reduce the load on your computer then cloud gaming is the way.

You can try it for free with 1 hour sessions to see if you like it or if your Internet connection can handle it.

I have to mention GFN does not support mods an will end a session if you restart the game to enable any of them. Also I think GFN is not supported by Klei, but as far as I know the only thing that is not working properly is the log entry system, which is not a big deal.

 

[Gurgel]

I rather have a decent CPU myself than paying somebody for an over-the-net service that cannot run everything I want. For anything that needs fast GFX (ONI does not) you also run into latency issues. 

[Farsight]

"does not support mods"

(shudder)

[asurendra]

1 hour ago, Gurgel said:

I rather have a decent CPU myself than paying somebody for an over-the-net service that cannot run everything I want. For anything that needs fast GFX (ONI does not) you also run into latency issues. 

Decent CPU for running ONI cost a lot. Extremely demanding game, oddly enough

[Magheat2009]

15 hours ago, asurendra said:

Decent CPU for running ONI cost a lot. Extremely demanding game, oddly enough

I am out here playing ONI with almost no problems on a AMD Ryzen 5300U running in a laptop. I also had no problems on an i5 processor running on a laptop from 2018.

Turning the autosave frequency from once EVERY cycle to once every five cycles was a game-changer for me. My wild theory is that what if the game starts to do processing for the auto-save even before the auto-save indicator shows up. So, it might affect performance more than people think. Each cycle, at triple speed lasts a little more than three minutes. Lets say, that the game starts preparing for an auto-save a minute before the final indicator shows up. That is one third of the game-play time spent while the game is wasting some crucial amount of CPU resources on performing saves. This theory makes no sense, but weirder things have been true. You can also install faster saves mod.

Also, tab hoarding is bad for this game. Open new topics in separate browser windows and then save the entire window as a new collection/bookmark when you don't need it. Close all unnecessary applications before you launch ONI.  

Print as few duplicants as possible. Duplicants are the biggest performance hog in the game. Prefer automation over taking more dupes.

P.S- Klei please optimize ONI auto-saves and turn down their default frequency. It is killing this game. This is a game, not a novel writing software. There is really no need to auto-save every three minutes. Just automatically save the game every-time people click quit, don't bother asking.

 

[Gurgel]

7 hours ago, asurendra said:

Decent CPU for running ONI cost a lot. Extremely demanding game, oddly enough

I just got a 7800X3D. Not that expensive. 

[asurendra]

16 hours ago, Magheat2009 said:

Print as few duplicants as possible. Duplicants are the biggest performance hog in the game. Prefer automation over taking more dupes.

 

Thats makes game too boring for me. Dupes have so little needs that having many of them is only option to make colony that cant be supplied by single water geyser

[Magheat2009]

2 hours ago, asurendra said:

Dupes have so little needs that having many of them is only option to make colony that cant be supplied by single water geyser

Play on shattered maps and install diseases restored. Don't use liquid locks. It should provide quite a bit of challenge without having to print 100 duplicants. Remember, devs cannot do anything about liquid locks, but recent updates to plug slugs and the inconsequential nature of most gases show that devs are not too keen on that exploit, despite having it in one of their shorts.

On the same tangent, I keep getting "X would be annoying" "you can just control yourself" comments as replies to my suggestions. Very few show any support adding more bite to survival aspects of this game. Most people want to play this game as if its Satisfactory, when it is in fact not Satisfactory. Then they complain that there are just "heating problems". Yes, monsieur, there are only heating problems left because of constant whining about X or Y being "annoying". Klei are having to fight tooth and nail to add some semblance of balance to things like food, atmo-suits, power production etc.

A certain person, who consider themselves no less than a major figure in this community were so bothered by my suggestions, that they decided to block me after publicly shouting about it. 

[Jorge Junior]

On 12.06.2023 at 01:18, Farsight said:

It would require a complete rewrite of the game, so it's not going to happen.

Beyond that, it would be an extremely expensive solution, since everyone is running on their own unique map. It would make more sense as a solution for a multiplayer game.

How did "Dont Starve" happen to "Dont Starve Together"?

On 12.06.2023 at 15:00, Gurgel said:

I rather have a decent CPU myself than paying somebody for an over-the-net service that cannot run everything I want. For anything that needs fast GFX (ONI does not) you also run into latency issues. 

Hi Gurgel, I'm talking about this: I'm talking about the system load being borne by the dedicated server by another Computer or Server. people can play locally or remotely.
Or something like Klei's own servers. It's not Gameforge Now.

[Farsight]

1 hour ago, HagenAizen said:

How did "Dont Starve" happen to "Dont Starve Together"?

I don't think we're going to get a server-based multiplayer ONI. The game doesn't lend itself to that kind of multiplayer.

There are ways to improve performance that don't require rewriting the entire game.

Personally, I'd like a Gravitas machine that "freezes" worlds we're not using, halting all calculations and preventing all rocket access until 'unfrozen'. I'm pretty sure performance would improve noticeably.

I'd immediately lock up the moos and regolith worlds.  

[asurendra]

Just now, Farsight said:

I'd immediately lock up the moos and regolith worlds.  

Asteroid isnt calculated until you open its screen. Just dont do it and it will stay "frozen"

[Jorge Junior]

1 hour ago, Farsight said:

I don't think we're going to get a server-based multiplayer ONI. The game doesn't lend itself to that kind of multiplayer.

There are ways to improve performance that don't require rewriting the entire game.

Personally, I'd like a Gravitas machine that "freezes" worlds we're not using, halting all calculations and preventing all rocket access until 'unfrozen'. I'm pretty sure performance would improve noticeably.

I'd immediately lock up the moos and regolith worlds.  

I think it is not difficult at all for Klei developers. Just as Dont Starve is known by everyone today; They will also fix such issues in ONI and gain Recognition in ONI.

 

[SGT_Imalas]

4 hours ago, HagenAizen said:

I think it is not difficult at all for Klei developers. Just as Dont Starve is known by everyone today; They will also fix such issues in ONI and gain Recognition in ONI.

It would require a full rewrite of every core system the game has, that is not something that is going to happen.

DS->DST was easy as it is "just" a 2d open world map with each player having a dedicated character.

ONI worlds are a fully simulated physic grid that has a data transfer rate of GIGABYTES per second, that is not something a normal internet connection is able to handle.

and since that physic sim is not deterministic, it cannot be synchronised by sharing a seed - take a savegame and let it run 10 timed without input for a large number of cycles - you will end up having 10 different outcomes. the differences might be small, but they will be there

the only realistic implementations of multiplayer in oni are indirect ones:

Send Rockets into a wormhole to appear in other game, send resources via supply teleporter like buildings, might even send dupes. but nothing beyond that

[Jorge Junior]

59 minutes ago, SGT_Imalas said:

It would require a full rewrite of every core system the game has, that is not something that is going to happen.

DS->DST was easy as it is "just" a 2d open world map with each player having a dedicated character.

ONI worlds are a fully simulated physic grid that has a data transfer rate of GIGABYTES per second, that is not something a normal internet connection is able to handle.

and since that physic sim is not deterministic, it cannot be synchronised by sharing a seed - take a savegame and let it run 10 timed without input for a large number of cycles - you will end up having 10 different outcomes. the differences might be small, but they will be there

the only realistic implementations of multiplayer in oni are indirect ones:

Send Rockets into a wormhole to appear in other game, send resources via supply teleporter like buildings, might even send dupes. but nothing beyond that

Motherboard bores holes in Northbridge and RAM(MHZ) but this is Gigabytesss. Do you think workload sharing and co-op should not come?

[SGT_Imalas]

52 minutes ago, HagenAizen said:

Do you think workload sharing and co-op should not come?

It is simply not physically possible with the way the game is built and Klei wont do a full rewrite of a game that has been in development for >6 years as that is beyond any reasonable cost point

[Gurgel]

On 6/14/2023 at 2:31 PM, HagenAizen said:

Hi Gurgel, I'm talking about this: I'm talking about the system load being borne by the dedicated server by another Computer or Server. people can play locally or remotely.
Or something like Klei's own servers. It's not Gameforge Now.

I will not go any further into this now. I just know way too much about distributed computing. Sorry.