Jorge Junior Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 On 6/14/2023 at 11:09 PM, SGT_Imalas said: It would require a full rewrite of every core system the game has, that is not something that is going to happen. DS->DST was easy as it is "just" a 2d open world map with each player having a dedicated character. ONI worlds are a fully simulated physic grid that has a data transfer rate of Gigabytesss per second, that is not something a normal internet connection is able to handle. and since that physic sim is not deterministic, it cannot be synchronised by sharing a seed - take a savegame and let it run 10 timed without input for a large number of cycles - you will end up having 10 different outcomes. the differences might be small, but they will be there the only realistic implementations of multiplayer in oni are indirect ones: Send Rockets into a wormhole to appear in other game, send resources via supply teleporter like buildings, might even send dupes. but nothing beyond that @Gurgel Have knowledge and hesitated to join the chat & Discussion? The Dedicated servers I'm talking about calculate everything themselves. For example, it does something like x= 1+1, y= 2+5. The client just asks for the result and the dedicated server says its answer is x=2, y=7. In @SGT_Imalas it thinks that even all of its data (instant syntax operations) needs to be transmitted over the network. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_server In the future; The expansion of the element pool, the increase of the Astroids, I just want a dedicated server feature for a more fun ONI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
degr Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 I did not read entire discussing real carefully, but as I understand you are trying to move computations from your local environment to external environment, and just consume computation results. It is very nice idea, especially if you are efficient manager. However, if you move computations from machine A(your local) to machine B(klei remote), you need to issue let's say, same amount of resources (RAM and CPU) for machine B. So, my question is - who will be in a charge for machine B? For an example, digital ocean provide pretty cheap price for dedicated servers - It will cost for you from 48 to ... ehm ... unlimited amount of USD per month (per 1 player). However, it is still possible, you may run it anywhere, and play from remote desktop. Unfortunately, I failed to found a link, but previously I create topic, where I run ONI in docker container in google cloud with remote desktop. But my main question is - are you playing from mobile phone? Or is it wooden PC? In that case try to play with minibase mod, it id not require a lot of computation power. I literally may imagine faces of doom eternal, cyberpunk and so on games developers, when they see posts like - I have no videocard, could you please run dedicated server with enough GPU to let me play your game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge Junior Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 1 hour ago, degr said: I did not read entire discussing real carefully, but as I understand you are trying to move computations from your local environment to external environment, and just consume computation results. It is very nice idea, especially if you are efficient manager. However, if you move computations from machine A(your local) to machine B(klei remote), you need to issue let's say, same amount of resources (RAM and CPU) for machine B. So, my question is - who will be in a charge for machine B? For an example, digital ocean provide pretty cheap price for dedicated servers - It will cost for you from 48 to ... ehm ... unlimited amount of USD per month (per 1 player). However, it is still possible, you may run it anywhere, and play from remote desktop. Unfortunately, I failed to found a link, but previously I create topic, where I run ONI in docker container in google cloud with remote desktop. But my main question is - are you playing from mobile phone? Or is it wooden PC? In that case try to play with minibase mod, it id not require a lot of computation power. I literally may imagine faces of doom eternal, cyberpunk and so on games developers, when they see posts like - I have no videocard, could you please run dedicated server with enough GPU to let me play your game. You must first find the answer to the main question in yourself. to find; Open the debug menu in ONI on your computer and click the slow spawn world button, The game wants; Let's see if you can create 12 Duplicants and post a video here at 3x speed. (Don't forget to install gas, liquid, rail, lines and ONI ecosystem) DANGER: Don't forget to keep the Fire Extinguisher with you. I agree with most of the other things you said. Community Servers or not but what I want from ONI is Dedicated Server and MP similar to Dont Starve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
degr Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 24 minutes ago, HagenAizen said: Open the debug menu in ONI No, thx, I prefer to play instead of watchin into debug logs. Also, most probably debug menu slow the game dramatically (but it is just a guess) 24 minutes ago, HagenAizen said: click the slow spawn world button Don't know what is it. Is there "fast spawn world button"? Try to click it instead 25 minutes ago, HagenAizen said: Let's see if you can create 12 Duplicants As usual I'm playing with ~100 duplicants with speed 1x, and game become unplayable only once, when I print 150 dupes, and build jet suit docks (not the atmo suit) nearby exit of any bedrooms. As community find, pathfinding is pretty expensive, and when all 150 dupes can fly, there were really a lot of variants to find correct path. Also now fast track mod is available, which may speed up your game. My hardware is 5 years old - cpu intel 7700k, 24gb ram, so I'm very hope that with new hardware it should work better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asurendra Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Again: if your PC isnt good, and you dont want to buy new one, you always can use cloud gaming and get powerful dedicated server. It doesnt matter who will own it: KLEI or someone else. You still have to pay for it. Dont starve is different game which dont need many calculations. Moreover it does not calculate anything what not at your screen. Thats why some weird effect like lost pigs may happen. With ONI it will not work. You need good hardware, and hardware costs money. A lot of money if it come to server... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge Junior Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 52 minutes ago, asurendra said: Again: if your PC isnt good, and you dont want to buy new one, you always can use cloud gaming and get powerful dedicated server. It doesnt matter who will own it: KLEI or someone else. You still have to pay for it. Dont starve is different game which dont need many calculations. Moreover it does not calculate anything what not at your screen. Thats why some weird effect like lost pigs may happen. With ONI it will not work. You need good hardware, and hardware costs money. A lot of money if it come to server... Thank you for your advice @asurendra But; Do you realize that if you have a 2nd computer and you can use it as a dedicated game server? And wouldn't you be excited to think that a friend of yours is on another asteroid? Did you know that you can rent a server that is open 24/7 for 3-6 months for half an hour's wages in a cafe? Moreover; Dont Starve Together is an Extremely good and beyond excellent game. It is true that everyone knows. Klei's success should now spread to ONI as "Together" As for what you said it doesn't calculate; Whole Game World Calculates up to ONI. If you set the map and other settings to Maximum, it will do more calculations than ONI. Light, Heat, Cold, Monsters, Spawned bosses, Events, Plants, fires, rains, including weather events, many things that I can't think of right now. I've even seen BOSS vs BOSS. but if you are on a game server you will not feel these calculations, You will only be responsible as a Client. @asurendra I want to ask you a question, if you could play ONI with your friend, would you pay $5.09? Yes or no. (moreover, no performance issues) Everything with source code; it just needs recompiling. Because everything is ready. Google: My Grammar problems may occur in long articles and sentences. try to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asurendra Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Just now, HagenAizen said: @asurendra I want to ask you a question, if you could play ONI with your friend, would you pay $5.09? Yes or no. (moreover, no performance issues) Actually, no. I dont want multiplayer. I want content updates. Right now game is too empty even for one person. What we can actually do together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 5 hours ago, HagenAizen said: @Gurgel Have knowledge and hesitated to join the chat & Discussion? Just did run through the same pointless discussion too often. I have no desire to do that again. Just one point you should think about: ONI cannot even use multiple local CPUs. And I will leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge Junior Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 25 minutes ago, asurendra said: Actually, no. I dont want multiplayer. I want content updates. Right now game is too empty even for one person. What we can actually do together? I'm sorry you said that. A lot could have been created about it. The element that you don't have could be found in your friend. What he didn't have could be found in you. If requested by the community; I feel they can. It feels empty because you are alone. And Didn't you like Jorge, New Dupes, New Drywalls? https://support.klei.com/hc/en-us/articles/360029881671-Will-Oxygen-Not-Included-have-Multiplayer Because everything will have a solution. 23 minutes ago, Gurgel said: Just did run through the same pointless discussion too often. I have no desire to do that again. Just one point you should think about: ONI cannot even use multiple local CPUs. And I will leave it at that. Well @Gurgel if you focus on the northbridge frequency and ram frequency your Ryzen will fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asurendra Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Just now, HagenAizen said: The element that you don't have could be found in your friend. What he didn't have could be found in you. But what element we really need? Some metal and rock for building, few kilos of steel for cooling and taming one water geyser. Thats all. Water will provide us oxygen, food and some energy. Aaaand... You win. Colony doesnt have any other needs. All other resources just have no use. If we speak about Dont starve, difficulty there increases over time. You meet stronger enemies, bosses, season changes. You have to adapt and develop. In ONI such mechanic just not exist. You cant make your dupes live better because they dont want anything. You can create complicated design and find rare resources, but this is purely for show, with no real result... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magheat2009 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 16 hours ago, degr said: lso, most probably debug menu slow the game dramatically (but it is just a guess) Debug also runs slowly for me. Devs have worked hard to optimize this game in last twelve months or so. Every update the game appears to run a little bit faster. Keeping debug on is not the way the game is supposed to be played. I wish they will add the Klei generators to the sandbox mode, so there is basically no need for people to enable debug in most circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asurendra Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Just now, Magheat2009 said: I wish they will add the Klei generators to the sandbox mode, so there is basically no need for people to enable debug in most circumstances. They have done it already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magheat2009 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 6 hours ago, asurendra said: They have done it already How do you get them? I cannot find dev generators anywhere in menus with sandbox enabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asurendra Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Just now, Magheat2009 said: How do you get them? I cannot find dev generators anywhere in menus with sandbox enabled. Sorry, I was wrong. Looks like it was accessible into test version only... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magheat2009 Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 8:01 PM, asurendra said: Sorry, I was wrong. Looks like it was accessible into test version only... Isn't debug enabled by default in test builds? I remember something like this being mentioned in info about test builds. Is gaining achievements possible with test builds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asurendra Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 15 hours ago, Magheat2009 said: Isn't debug enabled by default in test builds? I remember something like this being mentioned in info about test builds. Is gaining achievements possible with test builds? Never heard about it. If so, it explains why test game was so slooow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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