You only like Winter exclusively for MacTusk drop

[Spino43]

1 hour ago, ALCRD said:

I am far from pro in fact my kiting borderline sucks and i find the stepping behind Deerclops extremely easy to do reliably and without risk.

I have much better time dodging the new ice wave this way than doing the long walk away method before the change. 

If the intention was to make the boss require more skill to dodge .. then i can safely say it failed miserably and made her into a super easy to kite/dodge pushover.

Kiting Moose Goose a lot more difficult due to her hitbox and erratic attack pattern (where she decided to suddenly pause at random times , double honk instead usual 3 hit honk or just hop foward and then back without attacking at all etc) it puts me on edge trying to effectively dodge her nonsense when trying to fight her with minimal gear.

While Deerclops just takes no strict timing or skill whatsoever to dodge now.

I do like the idea of deerclops being a decently hard but beatable first boss for new players now. Back in ds she is basically the big bad of the game (until RoG came out), but not in dst where a 99k health toad exists. And even in early game you can use tentacles to wittle down her hp/kill her, or use her for tree chopping, and if lucky, treeguards will show up and you get living logs too.

Btw, for moose goose, a tip is to fight near her nest, going too far from her nest causes her A.I to mess up.

 

[ALCRD]

4 minutes ago, Spino43 said:

Btw, for moose goose, a tip is to fight near her nest, going too far from her nest causes her A.I to mess up.

I do fight her hugging the nest and she still pulls off shenanigans

[Spino43]

1 minute ago, ALCRD said:

I do fight her hugging the nest and she still pulls off shenanigans

Then I don't really know. Moose goose is always extremely consisent to me.

[D_Good_Fellow]

1 hour ago, ALCRD said:

I am far from pro in fact my kiting borderline sucks and i find the stepping behind Deerclops extremely easy to do reliably and without risk.

I would argue that the fact that you know the parameters and history of Deerclop's hitbox puts you much further in "pro" territory than a lot of players, certainly new ones.

You are right though, Deerclops can be easy even for relatively amateur players. But I actually think one of the best parts of Deerclops is the easy learning curve. It's at the exact level where you need to do some prep work and practice to avoid getting destroyed, but is very manageable once you've done that. Getting good at fighting Deerclops is a pretty standard part of learning to play DST: it teaches players to learn attack patterns and prepare for battle ahead of time, which is a great way to learn about bosses in general.

I like that players can learn to beat Deerclops fairly easily. It feels really gratifying to take down an enemy that so thoroughly devastated your progress on your first attempt. There's no reason players should have to spend hours practicing and watching YouTube videos to achieve that in this case.

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, ALCRD said:

I am far from pro in fact my kiting borderline sucks and i find the stepping behind Deerclops extremely easy to do reliably and without risk.

I have much better time dodging the new ice wave this way than doing the long walk away method before the change. 

If the intention was to make the boss require more skill to dodge .. then i can safely say it failed miserably and made her into a super easy to kite/dodge pushover.

Kiting Moose Goose a lot more difficult due to her hitbox and erratic attack pattern (where she decided to suddenly pause at random times , double honk instead usual 3 hit honk or just hop foward and then back without attacking at all etc) it puts me on edge trying to effectively dodge her nonsense when trying to fight her with minimal gear.

While Deerclops just takes no strict timing or skill whatsoever to dodge now.

Congrats, what you believe is borderline sucky kiting is 1) still better than newer players, and 2) good enough that you rightly are able to defeat the first boss in the game.

It does take more skill and more importantly more game knowledge to dodge behind deerclops considering most other attacks in the game are omnidirectional and if you miss the angle of what is "behind" her or move to get behind her too late you still get hit.

Yes kiting MG is more difficult, largely because she is random but also b/c she is single target and will default to hitting anything in range even if things leave her range.  Its it cool that our game has different enemies with different behavior and risk / reward patterns?

[ALCRD]

The point is Deerclops is way easier and more "predictable" (for the lack of better word) to kite now than before that change and it's very noticable.

There are no ifs and buts about it. 

Not sure what you all on about her requiring tight timing and being more skill based to kite after the ice wave hitbox size was scaled down.. It's a night and day difference on how easy is to dodge her attacks now.

Are ya still playing the same game? We still share the same reality and timeline right?

[Psychic Chicken]

18 minutes ago, ALCRD said:

The point is Deerclops is way easier and more "predictable" (for the lack of better word) to kite now than before that change and it's very noticable.

There are no ifs and buts about it. 

Not sure what you all on about her requiring tight timing and being more skill based to kite after the ice wave hitbox size was scaled down.. It's a night and day difference on how easy is to dodge her attacks now.

Are ya still playing the same game? We still share the same reality and timeline right?

It's still easier to walk back and forth like an ooga booga caveman

[ALCRD]

11 minutes ago, Psychic Chicken said:

It's still easier to walk back and forth like an ooga booga caveman

Right..

At this point i am convinced you are all just messing with me.

Sure whatever Deerclops is totally a skill based boss now requiring super tight timing and long stepping is easier than just stepping a bit to the side while hugging Deerclops or going slightly behind her to completely avoid the attack.  (Something which was not at all possible to do before)

[bloopah]

On 5/25/2023 at 6:42 PM, ALCRD said:

just stepping a bit to the side while hugging Deerclops

Deerclops is still able to hit you if you stand too close to the center of mass.

[ALCRD]

2 minutes ago, bloopah said:

Deerclops is still able to hit you if you stand too close to the chenter of mass.

Old Deerclops:

New Deerclops:

Which is harder to fight?

[Torpzun]

Why are we complaining that Deerclops is not as hard as Moosegoose? That boss is almost purely optional and comes a season later. Deerclops on the other hand is the first boss will fight, unless they're rushing Dragonfly on day -5, and can be punishing if you avoid her if you let her spawn near something valuable and smashable. You'll have to deal with temperature and her massive sanity drain as well, not just her cone of ice spikes. Deerclops is a rude wake-up call if you aren't prepared. So of course it makes a lot of sense for her to be easier than Goosemoose. The challenge is making sure you have everything ready to fight her when she comes for you because you don't have control over when she appears (not counting the Flare; if you're summoning her on purpose then of course she's going to be easy because you know how this game works). There's skill in information.

[ALCRD]

13 minutes ago, Torpzun said:

Why are we complaining that Deerclops is not as hard as Moosegoose?

"We" are not. I am just pointing out that after the ice wave hitbox change Deerclops is a joke to fight super easy to kite compared to before the change. It was originally in response to what Mike said that "Deerclops is only joke when fighting her with others" then people came flooding saying that Deerclops requires skill and precise timing to kite ... well she used to but not anymore after the ice wave AOE was nerfed lol now you can just slightly step to the side or behind her to completely dodge her attacks instead needing to long run away from the ice wave to not get hit.

Context , man.

[Yuuko]

On 5/25/2023 at 10:42 AM, ALCRD said:

Right..

At this point i am convinced you are all just messing with me.

Sure whatever Deerclops is totally a skill based boss now requiring super tight timing and long stepping is easier than just stepping a bit to the side while hugging Deerclops or going slightly behind her to completely avoid the attack.  (Something which was not at all possible to do before)

idk who has said it requires "super tight timing," or that is really challenging.  What I've said is that we have a different skillful option, the skill of knowing when to run around behind her instead of just dipping directly away the way you would with nearly every other mob.

Its kinda like AG rework - is it easier?  YES ABSOLUTELY THAT IS THE POINT.  No one is saying new AG isn't easier then old AG, but new AG is a skillful challenge where you get to direct its charge towards something meaningful, creating an opening for your attack, and with different attack patterns based and down time based on how long it charged.

Deerclops is still very simple compared to new AG, and THEY ARE BOTH EZ NO ONE IS SAYING THEY AREN'T but they aren't the simple in and out like if you're fighting a koalephant or tree guard.

Skillful doesn't mean hard, it means you're doing something specific and interactive.  By giving deerclops a directional hitbox instead of an encompassing circle we now have the option to skillfully run behind her to dodge her attack and get in a bit more dps.  It does require timing, and a sense of position because if you start moving too late, or you stop moving too early you can still easily be hit by it.  Its more risky then if you just kite directly back.

Similarly its skillful to kite dfly, staying close enough to trigger her attack without her lunge but still being able to move out of the way in time.  Its skillful to recognize when MGoose is going to honk so you can swing 1-2 more times b/c the honk doesn't hit you so you don't need to back away.

[ALCRD]

 

47 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Its more risky then if you just kite directly back.

No it isn't more risky.

Deerclops can't hit jack sludge now with her gimped directional attack if you stay close and run past her. Stop being silly.

If i attempted to be this close before the nerf i would get thrashed in seconds.

New Deerclops require less skill to kite than before where her ice wave hit radially and while long kiting i still got hit even after 400 hours playtime only being able to land like 2-3 hits safely-ish without speed boosts as opposed to just effortlessly cheese stepping the new Deerclops hitbox and land 4-5 hits without needing to back off to safety. The timing window was less forgiving before that change.

Stepping slightly behind or to the side of Deerclops when she telegraphs an attack isn't some super skillful pro gamer move .. 

47 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

but they aren't the simple in and out like if you're fighting a koalephant or tree guard.

Koalephant - hit it 5 times then step away slightly to dodge

Deerclops - hit it 5 times then step away slightly to dodge

What's the difference in kiting these beside direction in which i am stepping? Front vs Back

[Psychic Chicken]

On 5/25/2023 at 12:42 PM, ALCRD said:

Right..

At this point i am convinced you are all just messing with me.

Sure whatever Deerclops is totally a skill based boss now requiring super tight timing and long stepping is easier than just stepping a bit to the side while hugging Deerclops or going slightly behind her to completely avoid the attack.  (Something which was not at all possible to do before)

A new player might not think to walk around Deerclops, or might hug the back/side of Deerclops and get hit. the attack is VERY slow, walking in, hitting twice or so, and walking away is actually super easy and could not be a simpler fight. If you know what you're doing, walking behind to dodge can speed up the fight. But show me a first-timer beat Deerclops like that, I'll wait.

 

Also, a new player would go insane and die very quickly being near Deerclops for that long. You might be overestimating how well new players handle managing their positioning, sanity food, etc. as opposed to just walking back and forth with a little timing.

[ALCRD]

7 hours ago, Psychic Chicken said:

Also, a new player would go insane and die very quickly being near Deerclops for that long.

Yea if they try to long run away from the ice wave instead side step away. Which takes more sanity in overall since you can only land minimal amount of hits , and you are risking getting hit more cause you are trying to dodge the widest side of the visible hitbox instead the tiniest one and give Deerclops more time to attack again.

If a tree was falling on your noggin in real life you don't run away from it  you step to the opposite side where the tree is falling or else you risking still getting hit cause tree is quite long but "thin" at same time. New Ice Wave hitbox in a nutshell.

But you guys are going way off track with your "hur hur but new players" treating these new players like dense pufts that can't figure out simple kiting/dodging patterns on their own. Which tells a lot about you guys.

Lastly the point of my initial reply to Mike was that Deerclops is a joke to fight now solo due to the "fixed" hitbox that can't hit the player reliably at point blank like it used to before.

Which makes the Deerclops as easy to kite now as a Koealefant - and i proved even showed that. (and because of this she can be killed safely way sooner than it was possible before)

People claiming otherwise are either trolling or have no clue what they are talking about and just dwell forums instead actually still playing the game.

EDIT: By the way

7 hours ago, Psychic Chicken said:

But show me a first-timer beat Deerclops like that, I'll wait

This sort of nonsense cracks me up^

From my earlier post:

"Honestly logically some of these players would try running the opposite direction the ice wave attack is coming cause by the animation it looks like it shouldn't hit you if you do that. I know i've tried that when i attempted to kill her for first time and got wrecked cause the AOE covered more area than what was visible from the animation."

And now it's a viable strat to dodge it by side stepping and extremely easy to do as i shown since the animation matches the hitbox. What makes you think no one will figure out the arcane art of stepping away from a projectile attack that is coming at you? 

New player =/= dumb like some of you imply with your ridiculous and consescending posts.

[Psychic Chicken]

39 minutes ago, ALCRD said:

People claiming otherwise are either trolling or have no clue what they are talking about and just dwell forums instead actually still playing the game.

If you're going to throw random insults at people because they disagree with you, you can't really call it a debate anymore. That's needless arguing and this thread clearly isn't getting anywhere right now.

[ALCRD]

2 hours ago, Psychic Chicken said:

If you're going to throw random insults at people because they disagree with you, you can't really call it a debate anymore. That's needless arguing and this thread clearly isn't getting anywhere right now.

"random insults" right.. this disingenuous and manipulative silliness again.

Maybe if you didnt insult the intelligence of every new player making them seem like they can't think for themselves at all and use that as an excuse to shot down my argument while completely ignoring everything ive shown and said in favor of your ridiculous "but new players can't figure it out" rhetoric then we would actually have a chance for a proper debate.

Instead you are just ruffling my feathers with same condescending nonsense i keep seeing being repeated over and over here.

EDIT

It's hard not to doubt that you only dwell forums instead actually playing the game when seeing such wild claims. 

Especially hard not to view it as trolling when same nonsense is repeated to me with such a condescending manner (which is insulting by itself). Despite all what i said and shown.

There were no "random insults" i didn't call you any names or said anything directly hurtful with sole intent to hurt your feelings. You are using this cheap tactic to shot my argument down yet again and make me seem like an aggressor. Which won't work on me sadly. I've seen my fair share of this on Steam forums in particular to the point where i am getting numb to it. I will still call it out every chance i get tho cause I've seen this done not only towards me but others aswell and usually person who does this also tries to get the mods to lock the topic it's very disingenuous way of trying to shut someone up. It usually comes from people lacking any valid arguments to share and getting overly sensitive about it.

I am still waiting for someone who doesn't use "but new players can't figure out anything" excuse to tell me exactly how Deerclops is not a joke to kite now after the hitbox change. Which is what my initial post was about BTW.

[Vinja]

On 5/25/2023 at 5:04 PM, Shosuko said:

No one is saying new AG is easier then old AG

New AG is totally easier than old AG tho lol assuming you’re not talking about the old pillar or tombstone cheese or something

On 5/25/2023 at 5:30 PM, ALCRD said:

 

 

That Walter is clearly the most skilled player of all time, such a precise and borderline impossible kiting pattern could never be reproduced by anyone with less than 10,000 hours on record

 

all praise woby the goodest boy

[Yuuko]

11 hours ago, Vinja said:

New AG is totally easier than old AG tho lol assuming you’re not talking about the old pillar or tombstone cheese or something

That's a typo.  The text surrounding the quoted portion should be pretty clear about my intent.

My point is - the rework of AG and Deerclops hit box change were not made to increase their difficulty, but rather add more interaction in their game play.  Dodging AROUND deerclops is very unique for this game, making that fight feel different then the others.  Its not a monotonous back and forth dodge like almost every other fight in the game is, now you can circle around him and you're rewarded for playing this specific tactic on Deerclops with more dps opportunities.  Just like the AG rework changed to let you lead him into pillars for big damage opportunities.  Its a LOT easier then old AG (sans cheese) but also a lot more approachable, enjoyable, easier to read and understand, and still a challenge for new players.

YES its easier, but YES its different, more fun, and takes understanding and practicing the game.

[Vinja]

28 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

That's a typo.  The text surrounding the quoted portion should be pretty clear about my intent.

My point is - the rework of AG and Deerclops hit box change were not made to increase their difficulty, but rather add more interaction in their game play.  Dodging AROUND deerclops is very unique for this game, making that fight feel different then the others.  Its not a monotonous back and forth dodge like almost every other fight in the game is, now you can circle around him and you're rewarded for playing this specific tactic on Deerclops with more dps opportunities.  Just like the AG rework changed to let you lead him into pillars for big damage opportunities.  Its a LOT easier then old AG (sans cheese) but also a lot more approachable, enjoyable, easier to read and understand, and still a challenge for new players.

YES its easier, but YES its different, more fun, and takes understanding and practicing the game.

Yeah you pretty much hit the nail on the head here. The reworked mechanics are easier but much better. Old AG was more annoying than anything which is what made the cheese so appealing. 
 

I don’t think the deerclops change adds a whole lot to the fight more just makes his attack animation actually make sense because it made zero sense before.

[PandoPon]

You like Winter because Walrus drops.

I like Winter because I love snow aesthetics.

We are not the same.

[Mike23Ua]

On 5/25/2023 at 12:05 PM, ALCRD said:

Old Deerclops:

New Deerclops:

Which is harder to fight?

I don’t see the problems with this, and if you played Gotham Knights.. you wouldn’t either.

DS’s OLD design for Deerclops Sucked, the new way while much easier, defiantly makes a lot more sense and feels more rewarding.

My point about Deerclops being a “Joke” when fought with multiple players was simply to say One person fighting it is gonna take at least 2 minutes time. 6 people fighting it is gonna take 4 seconds.

Tell me that’s not a joke?

[GelatinousCube]

On 5/24/2023 at 6:01 AM, Mike23Ua said:

I mean do you really? A Deerclops will despawn (with a cute happy grin on its face) after smashing 5 structures. You can technically avoid ever fighting it by putting bait structures somewhere for it to smash & leave happily.

alternatively, (at least until Bearger spawns) you can attack it from a distance with an Ice staff to get it to cut down forests for You. 

Killing Deerclops gives you a Head Umbrella that makes Spring & Summer both significantly easier, but you don’t really even need this head umbrella, you can get by just fine with a pretty parasol, football helmet/straw hat & standing under a tree.

The only right of passage here is “can you kill this boss? To make staying alive significantly easier, OR Will you continue to Suffer Miserably because you can’t?

Its like Activating the MoonStorms (which I’ve never done..) But “can you kill this boss?? Or continue to suffer because you can’t?

Ant-Lion- Can you kill/appease this Boss or continue to have it make your life more miserable because you can’t?

The entire game is structured in such an annoyingly unfair way that we don’t ever NEED an “Uncompromising Mode..” because rather Klei intended game design to be this way or not… the game becomes more “Uncompromising” the more you CAN’T deal with the problems it throws at you.

The TL:DR- the game only gets harder if your a noob who was already struggling to get by… yet it REWARDS the players who can over come the things the noobs were struggling with by making those players lives that much easier???? Uhh… did I miss something here??

Huh..? 

You're just describing video games/games in general.

Annoyingly unfair..? In many games if you can't beat a specific boss/mission or overcome a specific challenge you're straight up stuck and cannot progress until you overcome that hurdle. 

In DST you can keep playing and doing all sorts of other activities if you can't overcome something. You can also get other players help or cheese it with one of the MANY ways you can cheese various things in DST. 

You can't just have everything handed to you on a silver platter..

"yet it REWARDS the players who can over come the things the noobs were struggling with" 

Seriously? So what, should we be punished for getting better and overcoming challenges instead? 

Look up the word progression dude.. 

20 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I don’t see the problems with this, and if you played Gotham Knights.. you wouldn’t either.

Must you still continue to compare every single other game in existence regardless of genre or similarity to DST?