Questions about the nightmare werepig

[MrsBoris]

Look at my profile for my opinion on the update 

[-Variant]

The boss does have a theme.
I like the design, I still wish he was on the surface and pink, it felt a lot more fitting to me.

Not sure I want to comment on the armor/drops, Klei mentioned wanting to do more with it in the future so I'm inclined to thing it's to-be-changed in the future.

[Mike23Ua]

I will wait for that update that lets people who play solo “fairly” fight these bosses before I comment on it mechanics wise, but visually he looks pretty neat, I didn’t expect it to be THAT BIG though.. he’s huge, I haven’t triggered his fight, nor do I intend to until sometime after this years roadmap.

The roadmap clearly states that Klei has been designing content with the intentions that players would be doing that content as a “group” but now they’re going to expand deeper into the solo/duo playstyle, if I had to take a wild guess-

They will look at how fighting a Nightmare pig with 10,000hp and regenerative minions can be handled while solo, for those of you who CAN One Vs One this thing… good for you- but… your actually ABOVE Klei’s intended “Do it as a group” design intent, so like I said- I will wait until a later update where bosses will probably be scaled way the hell down and possibly with a few mechanical changes so Solo players can enjoy them too.

[Evelo]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I will wait for that update that lets people who play solo “fairly” fight these bosses before I comment on it mechanics wise, but visually he looks pretty neat, I didn’t expect it to be THAT BIG though.. he’s huge, I haven’t triggered his fight, nor do I intend to until sometime after this years roadmap.

This boss is actually really fun to fight as solo and fairly, no cheese. It is very much like the new Ancient guardian. Both have 10k hp, Both have periods of being stunned, and both have simple and straight forward mechanics. Give it a try it is 10x more fun than Dragonfly, Crabking, AFW, Bee Queen, or CC. There are no "regenerative minions" either, dunno where you got that idea from. It does regenerate HP but it isn't that much and can be canceled MUCH easier than AFW or Crab King.

[Gashzer]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I will wait for that update that lets people who play solo “fairly” fight these bosses before I comment on it mechanics wise

But the game allows you to recruit follower armies to subsitute not having a real player help you. The bosses still feel fair when fighting solo... its harder but you own 100% of the drops instead of splitting it with others. Just requires a wee bit more prep.

For example lets take bee queen, there are usually enough bunny hutches in the caves to hammer to make 9 bunny hutches on the surface, 9 bunnymen dont seem like alot for fighting her. However slap on football helmets on to each and their survivability massively increases, this allows you to get past phase 1 and 2 of bee queen very quickly. Ill argue that phase 2 is the hardest phase solo so being able to get past that point makes the rest of the fight much easier even if the bunnymen all die. This is my go to method for fighting her as Walter during first autumn..  saves on time and slingshot ammo.

So fights like bee queen are more than fair solo.... just need to think outside the box more which is a good thing not a bad thing.

[Ridley]

Speed boosts aren't required for dodging any of his attacks. You can dodge under his arms during a lunge or run a circle around him when he goes for a slam.

Option 5 didn't have a choice I agreed with. I would say the crafts are very underwhelming, but I don't mind the loot amount. There is signs that the dreadstone and pure horror will be used for more things in the future, which will probably come with alternate methods of acquisition. The crafts will probably change a bit when that time comes.

[minespatch]

I just wish he was renamed "Daywalker".

[BezKa]

I chose i like it's drops only because it seems to be a part of a longer story (it doesn't die when you defeat it, doesn't drop a sketch- I'm almost 100% sure it's coming back with "phase 2" later in the game) and maybe, just maybe, dread stone and whatcha call it are going to be more relevant, with more sources, etc later on.

[Juanasdf]

I like everything about the boss, I agree with Variant. It's colors should be pink and he should be upstairs, but I'd also hate it if klei moved him back up, not a fan of having lots of spawners on my overworld...

The only thing I'd change is his rush hitbox, I'd make it a tad bit smaller because it honestly feels a bit too big for my taste.

Otherwise fun fight, it's kiteable, it has decent requirements to start the fight, and good loot.

As for drops, we'll see in the future, we may get other ways to earn pure horror and dreadstone.

[Gashzer]

Re-killing the nightmare werepig is good for obtaining a full stack of nightmare fuel. Cracked pillars drop 3-4 dreadstone each that Wilson can convert to around 18-24 terror fuel then he can convert that to 36-48 regular nightmare fuel plus the 4-5 terror fuel that nightmare werepig drops thats like 44-58 nightmare fuel everytime you kill him.

Its probably the most fun way of farming nightmare fuel in the late game.

[abrocator]

On 3/27/2023 at 6:00 AM, Mike23Ua said:

I will wait for that update that lets people who play solo “fairly” fight these bosses

?

I saw solo players fight him straight up in the beta.

[JAndy]

Everything around the new boss fight is actually pretty cool, the only thing im not so sure about is the requirement of a Pick/Axe.

Yes, we all now the tool is kinda useless at that point of the game, and yes, giving it some actual unique utility is a step in the right direction, but I fell like making it a mandatory step rather than an option (let's say, a more efficient or all around better option) is problematic for players like me, who get so easily distracted is the process of the gameplay loop

[Baark0]

Visually he looks cool, he should 100% be in the caves for the sole fact it gives something else to do in the caves, cant comment on the fight or the drops since im not too familiar with them (been playing way more ds since the dlcs are way more interesting imo), but the boss requirements, specifically the pick/axe, is fair, since the armor is thulecite but it regens, you should have to at least go to the ruins in order to unlock this gear

[Mike23Ua]

On 3/27/2023 at 6:07 AM, Gashzer said:

But the game allows you to recruit follower armies to subsitute not having a real player help you. The bosses still feel fair when fighting solo... its harder but you own 100% of the drops instead of splitting it with others. Just requires a wee bit more prep.

For example lets take bee queen, there are usually enough bunny hutches in the caves to hammer to make 9 bunny hutches on the surface, 9 bunnymen dont seem like alot for fighting her. However slap on football helmets on to each and their survivability massively increases, this allows you to get past phase 1 and 2 of bee queen very quickly. Ill argue that phase 2 is the hardest phase solo so being able to get past that point makes the rest of the fight much easier even if the bunnymen all die. This is my go to method for fighting her as Walter during first autumn..  saves on time and slingshot ammo.

So fights like bee queen are more than fair solo.... just need to think outside the box more which is a good thing not a bad thing.

I’m sorry but I just don’t see things the way that you do, I … I Can’t, I grew up in the era of difficult as heck video games, I mean back in the late 80’s & early 90’s video games were designed to have the scales tipped against you so it felt like the coin sucking Arcade games.

An excellent example is Sonic Origins- this is a 2022/3 remaster of the original Sonic games, however it doesn’t FEEL like the originals because they made it less punishing by giving players unlimited lives & no level time limits, sure you can pick “classic mode” which returns the limited lives and level timers- but even that is far too forgiving by allowing players to save their progress and should they die- retry again at their last save. ??????

for anyone who grew up in the 90’s you’ll know instantly that losing all your lives & continues meant starting the entire game all over again from level 1.

That is an example of the “Era” I grew up in.. However, as the years progressed and newer games were released- innovative ideas such as 2009’s Borderlands came to be (where enemy mobs grew stronger/weaker based on how many players were there) this type of game programming also extends to 2022’s Gotham Knights- where if one player is at an enemy hideout clearing out thugs if the coop player arrives at the same crime the game will send “reinforcements” to adjust to there being more players in the area.

What does any of this have to do with DST?? Well as I said- I can’t see your point of view, I can’t see fighting this boss (or any boss really..) as a “fair fight” when playing solo, Why? Because UNLIKE Borderlands and Gotham Knights- DSTs enemies don’t scale to accommodate for how many players are participating

What this means is that the boss has the same amount of health when fighting it solo as it does when fighting it with a group of players, and obviously it dies much faster when more people are hitting it.

Your counter argument about hiring followers to do the fight solo is equally flawed: because what’s preventing me from hiring all those followers AND bringing along a group of other players? (The enemy is dead that much faster)

Now had the mobs Re-adjusted themselves to accommodate for other players/more followers then yah I’d agree with you, fighting it solo is fair.

In fact the only thing I DO agree with you on is that when fighting them solo you get to keep all the loot for yourself instead of having to share.

But even that doesn’t help me see your point of view.

Im no stranger to difficult games, but maybe DST is a little too difficult for it’s own good?

One of the least fun things for me in DST personally is having to fight so many on screen enemies at once, I guess the game is designed this way because they intend you to play with others, but I can say it’s no fun for me to fight a boss that’s continuously spitting out minions.

And yes I’m aware I can hire followers or spend an extensive amount of time building some crazy contraptions but.. I just want to enjoy the content at my earliest convenience without all the grind & setup.

Please note: I’m not asking Klei to spend an extensive amount of time to change it & Redesign the games entire foundation to be more forgiving to Solo players, I’m just saying I don’t want to spend 2-5 game days fighting a boss that if I just would’ve brought a few other players with me to fight, is dead in half a day give or take.

And on the reverse side of thought: I don’t think that it’s fair that the bosses don’t scale upward in health and difficulty based upon how many players are participating 

[Evelo]

46 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

One of the least fun things for me in DST personally is having to fight so many on screen enemies at once, I guess the game is designed this way because they intend you to play with others, but I can say it’s no fun for me to fight a boss that’s continuously spitting out minions.

Besides ancient fuel weaver (which yes I do think deserves a solo player rework even though it can technically be done solo, it isnt fun) what bosses "continuously spitting out minions" that are inherently unfair? The Nightmare Werepig certainly does not do that, Dragonfly does but that can be easily avoided with stone walls, Bee Queen does but her minions can easily be kited back and forth avoiding them almost entirely without the use of bunnymen ever.

Naturally different characters can specialize in different situations. However every boss can be fought alone, legitimately as Wilson. If you are willing to use the Celestial Portal (I am not, I detest that thing) then you can swap characters who excel against certain bosses. Maxwell and Wendy have such an easy time fighting Bee Queen. Wigfrid, Wanda, and Wolfgang do a ton of extra damage that makes fights like Dragonfly quick and easy. Woodie and Maxwell both great at dealing with Toadstool.

56 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I just want to enjoy the content at my earliest convenience without all the grind & setup.

I think this is your main point with everything. Which bosses (well except AFW because of the tremendous number of Weather Pains required and maybe Crab King but that boss sucks to fight without cheese) can be done relatively quickly. What matters is your knowledge of the game and how quickly you can figure out how to acquire the bare minimum.

Let's take Dragonfly for example. I play Wormwood so my required resources are as follows: 48 stone walls, 28 Cobblestone Paths, 2 Log Suits, 2 Leather Helmets, 4 Darkswords, a Walking Cane (optional but encouraged), and some method to heal, in this case I will use Healing Salves x 20.

So, how do I prep? I know the location of the Mosaic Biome and Rocky Biomes so I can easily amass the required stone for the walls and paths. I chop down trees and gather grass for 2 log suits and kill spiders using a spear to get 20 salves. I can burn extra grass to make the salves and I should have some spare rocks from my mining expedition. Assuming I have already made a Shadow Manipulator (I rush it and tend to get it by day 5 as Wormwood), I just need to farm up nightmare fuel for the 4 darkswords. Which should be easy since I will be chopping trees to lower my sanity greatly. I feed pigs monster meat that has piled up from the spider massacre to turn it into a werepig for a guaranteed pig skin. I do this twice and now have my helmets. I return to base, craft the 4 darkswords by using my hp to create living logs, heal by using a tent before setting off to the Dragonfly on roughly day 26 after having explored the map and set up my base. I assemble the arena by using walls and forgot to bring a pitchfork. Welp now I have to run all the way back grab the pitchfork and come back to place down the Cobbestone paths. I make sure I am fully fed and on full sanity before I equip my 1 logsuit, 1 leather helmet, and darksword while the rest is in my inventory. I do the fight as normal and if any lavae get in the way I can easily kite them until they die naturally because I can outrun the dragonfly. I realized I forgot to bring a panflute so I run away completely and craft another log suit and leather helmet just in case as well as 1 more darksword. Alright round 2 this time I have everything. Measure once, cut twice. Whoops! Dragonfly dies and I gather the loot and go upon my merry way.

This happens constantly and despite knowing what all I need to prepare it takes maybe 3 in game days to acquire everything. Some of the later bosses like Celestial Champion take longer because of doing the whole storyline but each boss individually (minus AFW and Toadstool) require minimal actual grind.

Maybe I just descried the set up you were exactly hoping to avoid? I don't know it's just something I am so use to after playing 16 years of World of Warcraft I think nothing of it now. Judging from your description of games you grew up with id say you're about 6 years older than me. Not that, that matters but idk just an observation.