[Game Update] - 548857

[JesseB_Klei]

Changes

• Added indicator when maximum Insight is reached.

Bug Fixes

• Fixed a visual error with the Shadow Courtier skill.
• Fixed Beard inventory showing while sleeping or frozen.
• Fixed Wonkey resetting talent tree selections.
• Fixed player inspection UI getting stuck open when going into or out of Wonkey.
• Wilson’s Barber skin’s hair was adjusted to not recede when wearing a hat.

Notes for Modders

• Fixed the modded flag for CreateSkillTreeFor being set on the wrong table and it has been moved from the definition table to the metainfo table.

View full update

[DajeKotlyar]

Still no statue...

[-Variant]

Any chance for Wilsons idle to be looked into again? I know that's one of the things I've seen almost everyone universally agree on lately.

[Ryusuta]

Instead of fixing these Wonkey interactions, why not just fix Accursed trinkets so they're not such a godawful, player-hostile, incredibly un-fun mechanic?

[WashYourHands]

make items in wilson's beard be stackable when picking up the same item (i.e. picking up a seed while seeds in beard). currently, the picked up seed will go into an inventory slot, not the beard.

[. . .]

44 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

Instead of fixing these Wonkey interactions, why not just fix Accursed trinkets so they're not such a godawful, player-hostile, incredibly un-fun mechanic?

It would be nice to have world option to disable them from dropping altogether.

[finn from human]

52 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

Instead of fixing these Wonkey interactions, why not just fix Accursed trinkets so they're not such a godawful, player-hostile, incredibly un-fun mechanic?

Even in the scenario where Klei would be willing to overhaul a mechanic and remove a large chunk of content like Wonkey from the game, I think it should be pretty clear why it's 1,000x easier for a developer to fix bugs related to a piece of content than it is for the entire team to get together to figure out how to entirely change accursed trinkets to appeal to people who don't like them.

[Ryusuta]

54 minutes ago, sylvia wander o said:

Even in the scenario where Klei would be willing to overhaul a mechanic and remove a large chunk of content like Wonkey from the game, I think it should be pretty clear why it's 1,000x easier for a developer to fix bugs related to a piece of content than it is for the entire team to get together to figure out how to entirely change accursed trinkets to appeal to people who don't like them.

I'm not suggesting that. There is a middle ground, here.

(tl;dr Don't make the Accursed Trinkets auto-add themselves unless you've already picked one up. Simple.)

The problem is that the way the Accursed Trinkets work is counter to the way literally everything in the entire SERIES has worked up to this point. Don't Starve works on a series of warnings, risks, escapes, and rewards.

Take a Depths Worm attack, for instance.

Warning: Growling sounds in cave, character comments.

Risks: Dangerous battle with highly-damaging worms.

Escapes: Escape the encounter by finding friendly NPCs to draw aggro, by running away until they are too far behind to stay aggro'd, or go to the surface.

Rewards: Fighting the worms gives you Glow Berries which can be used to create one of the most potent dark vision sources in the game, as well as monster meat.

Or perhaps DST Dragonfly...

Warning: Lava pits, charred skeletons, an inhospitable biome, and the Dragonfly herself.

Risks: EXTREMELY powerful and tanky boss fight which requires setup to do.

Escapes: Leave the area and/or simply don't engage.

Rewards: A lot of valuable treasure including a permanent light, heat, and cooking source.

One more example: winter weather...

Warning: Character begins to look cold, then you see frost on your screen, then your screen tints red and the character comments on it.

Risks: Staying out in the cold weather drains HP over time.

Escapes (assuming no winter clothing or preparation): By this point a new player already understand the mechanics of fire. They can either use the torch to light something on fire or make a camp fire. Both options are highly intuitive.

Rewards: Continued map exploration and winter resources.

NOW, BY CONTRAST, TAKE HOW THE TRINKETS WORK...

Warning: There is none. You have a warning of a pirate attack, but that itself is misdirection. You're not supposed to be able to easily flee from the attack, and you are punished with this for the sin of WINNING the battle. There is nothing to indicate what the trinkets are or even that they exist at all.

Risks: There is no risk to assess. The trinkets add themselves as you're fighting. It's very possible you won't even notice it if you're fending them off at the time.no warning signs and no understanding of what the risk is. Only prior knowledge will show that the "risk" is that you've already lost an inventory slot and made progress toward a punishment.

Escapes: You don't escape it. If you kill a monkey, you're already affected. The only exception is killing them from very, VERY far away so the trinkets can't reach you. In order to "escape," you need to know to find the Moon Quay island, which is usually close, but is NOT revealed to you. You need to know ahead of time that you even need to do that. Look up TVTropes "Guide Damn It" article.

Anyway, the other possibility is emptying your inventory, running all the way someplace where you never plan on returning, then intentionally dying so you leave the trinkets there.

Reward:

So yeah. I will 100% die on this hill. Accursed Trinkets as they are now are without a single question absolutely the worst-implemented idea in the history of the game.

That being said, it's not beyond redemption. All you need to do is simply make it so they don't add themselves to your inventory.

"But they need to do that!" you might say. "Otherwise no one would pick them up."

To that I reply... have you SEEN people play this game? Do you really think that every single player is going to look super carefully at each object they pick up? And THAT is the careless behavior that should be punished. It gives a careful player a chance to mouse over and examine the trinkets (or to have learned from previous bad experience) in order to avoid them. or if they absolutely want to, they now have the foreknowledge to actively collect them.

By doing this, you adequately allow player agency and decision-making back into the event. It allows a warning sign, a risk, and... well... still not much of a reward, but Wonkey can be situationally handy on occasion, I guess.

[GroundChest]

7 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

I'm not suggesting that. There is a middle ground, here.

(tl;dr Don't make the Accursed Trinkets auto-add themselves unless you've already picked one up. Simple.)

The problem is that the way the Accursed Trinkets work is counter to the way literally everything in the entire SERIES has worked up to this point. Don't Starve works on a series of warnings, risks, escapes, and rewards.

Take a Depths Worm attack, for instance.

Warning: Growling sounds in cave, character comments.

Risks: Dangerous battle with highly-damaging worms.

Escapes: Escape the encounter by finding friendly NPCs to draw aggro, by running away until they are too far behind to stay aggro'd, or go to the surface.

Rewards: Fighting the worms gives you Glow Berries which can be used to create one of the most potent dark vision sources in the game, as well as monster meat.

Or perhaps DST Dragonfly...

Warning: Lava pits, charred skeletons, an inhospitable biome, and the Dragonfly herself.

Risks: EXTREMELY powerful and tanky boss fight which requires setup to do.

Escapes: Leave the area and/or simply don't engage.

Rewards: A lot of valuable treasure including a permanent light, heat, and cooking source.

One more example: winter weather...

Warning: Character begins to look cold, then you see frost on your screen, then your screen tints red and the character comments on it.

Risks: Staying out in the cold weather drains HP over time.

Escapes (assuming no winter clothing or preparation): By this point a new player already understand the mechanics of fire. They can either use the torch to light something on fire or make a camp fire. Both options are highly intuitive.

Rewards: Continued map exploration and winter resources.

NOW, BY CONTRAST, TAKE HOW THE TRINKETS WORK...

Warning: There is none. You have a warning of a pirate attack, but that itself is misdirection. You're not supposed to be able to easily flee from the attack, and you are punished with this for the sin of WINNING the battle. There is nothing to indicate what the trinkets are or even that they exist at all.

Risks: There is no risk to assess. The trinkets add themselves as you're fighting. It's very possible you won't even notice it if you're fending them off at the time.no warning signs and no understanding of what the risk is. Only prior knowledge will show that the "risk" is that you've already lost an inventory slot and made progress toward a punishment.

Escapes: You don't escape it. If you kill a monkey, you're already affected. The only exception is killing them from very, VERY far away so the trinkets can't reach you. In order to "escape," you need to know to find the Moon Quay island, which is usually close, but is NOT revealed to you. You need to know ahead of time that you even need to do that. Look up TVTropes "Guide Damn It" article.

Anyway, the other possibility is emptying your inventory, running all the way someplace where you never plan on returning, then intentionally dying so you leave the trinkets there.

Reward:

So yeah. I will 100% die on this hill. Accursed Trinkets as they are now are without a single question absolutely the worst-implemented idea in the history of the game.

That being said, it's not beyond redemption. All you need to do is simply make it so they don't add themselves to your inventory.

"But they need to do that!" you might say. "Otherwise no one would pick them up."

To that I reply... have you SEEN people play this game? Do you really think that every single player is going to look super carefully at each object they pick up? And THAT is the careless behavior that should be punished. It gives a careful player a chance to mouse over and examine the trinkets (or to have learned from previous bad experience) in order to avoid them. or if they absolutely want to, they now have the foreknowledge to actively collect them.

By doing this, you adequately allow player agency and decision-making back into the event. It allows a warning sign, a risk, and... well... still not much of a reward, but Wonkey can be situationally handy on occasion, I guess.

I can really see that you're actually playing this game, but unfortunately, Klei doesn't

Edited March 22, 2023 by GroundChest

[Ryusuta]

34 minutes ago, GroundChest said:

I can really see that you're actually playing this game, but unfortunately, Klei doesn't

Err... Why is my post written in another language there? ^^;

[abrocator]

6 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

Instead of fixing these Wonkey interactions, why not just fix Accursed trinkets so they're not such a godawful, player-hostile, incredibly un-fun mechanic?

What I don’t like is how (1) monkey raids can happen in quick succession and (2) you have to go back the island to get rid of them. Last time (a week ago) I got raided and I didn’t manage to clean up the mess that they made + my sunken boats (burnt in summer) before they started another raid (but thankfully they owned themselves on a sea weed forest). So what are you supposed to do? You kill the first raid, and then you have to go back to the Island to get rid of the curse. But while you are sailing away from the island you risk getting raided again. This kind of yo-yoing is not fun.

[Maxposting]

2 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

Err... Why is my post written in another language there? ^^;

I think the forum itself has a translate function, or GroundChest just used a translator.

it's easy and points out potential miscommunication, should the translation be incorrect.

[Ryusuta]

1 hour ago, Maxposting said:

I think the forum itself has a translate function, or GroundChest just used a translator.

it's easy and points out potential miscommunication, should the translation be incorrect.

Ohhh... That's actually really cool!

[GroundChest]

1 hour ago, Ryusuta said:

Ohhh... That's actually really cool!

yeah he's right, Your comment is long enough that I need uesd a translator to read faster

[bjanmanjs]

8 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

Don't make the Accursed Trinkets auto-add themselves unless you've already picked one up.

This would be consistent with how they're depicted in the update trailer.

[BB Marioni]

I personally didn't mind the trinket mechanics. I found the raids difficult at first, but now I easily ignore them by using a grass raft and giving them bananas so they just leave right away

[Cheggf]

12 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

That being said, it's not beyond redemption. All you need to do is simply make it so they don't add themselves to your inventory.

They should also despawn after awhile so your boat doesn't inevitably become filled with lag-inducing trinkets everywhere.

[slurper gaming]

16 hours ago, JesseB_Klei said:

Changes

• Added indicator when maximum Insight is reached.

Bug Fixes

• Fixed a visual error with the Shadow Courtier skill.
• Fixed Beard inventory showing while sleeping or frozen.
• Fixed Wonkey resetting talent tree selections.
• Fixed player inspection UI getting stuck open when going into or out of Wonkey.
• Wilson’s Barber skin’s hair was adjusted to not recede when wearing a hat.

Notes for Modders

• Fixed the modded flag for CreateSkillTreeFor being set on the wrong table and it has been moved from the definition table to the metainfo table.

 

View full update

thought the wonkey thing was made to happen but i can see why it was changed to not reset it

 

[Nweeky]

I usually just drop the anchor and lazy explorer poof to land which makes them despawn, then poof back on my boat and continue my business. At least if Im reasonably close to land, takes like 10 seconds to get rid of them.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Nweeky

[Hornete]

15 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

snip

I don't think you understood the point of their comment.

In the scenario or magical timeline that you got what you wanted and they changed how the accursed trinkets functioned, the bug with Wilson losing his skill tree selection when transforming would still exist, and would still need to have been fixed, and so would have most of those other interactions with Wonkey. In your first comment it seems you somehow think changing the design of the accursed trinkets would have fixed these interactions as a result? When they are two separate 'issues' unrelated to one another.

I apologize in advance if I misconstrued your comments.

[Flip Face]

Maybe cursed trinkets are needed to craft something in the future, so everyone will want to have them.

[Ryusuta]

On 3/22/2023 at 9:57 AM, Hornete said:

I don't think you understood the point of their comment.

In the scenario or magical timeline that you got what you wanted and they changed how the accursed trinkets functioned, the bug with Wilson losing his skill tree selection when transforming would still exist, and would still need to have been fixed, and so would have most of those other interactions with Wonkey. In your first comment it seems you somehow think changing the design of the accursed trinkets would have fixed these interactions as a result? When they are two separate 'issues' unrelated to one another.

I apologize in advance if I misconstrued your comments.

Ah, I see how that might have come across.

My point isn't that they shouldn't have worked on those things at all; it was more about what should be a high priority. I agree they should fix those bugs and glitches, but what I'm saying is that they should have also adjusted the concept as a whole, in my opinion.