Wagstaff time

[LinknAllie]

At the end of the short it shows his glove outside of Maxwell's door.  Is he just studying the house for answers?  Is he operating out of it?  Did he intent for Wilson to build the door the whole time?  How far does this thing really go?

Spoiler

 

 

[djturner]

Quote

We have a few areas that we want to focus on to accomplish this. In terms of content, we plan to delve deeper into the stories surrounding Charlie and Wagstaff, and explore the impact of their actions on The Constant. The introduction of late-game world challenges will change The Constant in ways that players will need to adapt to, either by working with or against them. This will also provide Survivors with the opportunity to discover new resources and items that will be vital for their survival as they progress throughout all areas of the game. 

I think this short "outed" Wagstaff as pseudo-antagonistic (something people had guessed at for quite some time), to set up the above framework in the roadmap. Between Wagstaff potentially being an evil (amoral?) scientist tinkering with the constant from the safety of the outside, completely indifferent to (and/or actively exploiting) the presence of actual people inside, and Maxwell's short aligning himself with Charlie (as well as Wilson's Shadow Courtier or whatever its final name ended up being), it seems the waters are getting muddied. We'll probably wind up with a "late to end game loop" revolving around these two morally very very dark grey characters and our interactions with them.

I always thought Wagstaff was poised to be the "hero" to Charlie's "villain," but this short felt very incompatible with the idea, not only in what was presented, but how.

[Szczuku]

It seems pretty obvious that Wilson lived in Wagstaff's old house.

Wagstaff is definitelly planning something, though I don't know how he plans to power whatever he was working on, since he already blew up Alter's limb. I also don't know why Wilson was so happy to find Wagstaff since Eye of the Storm should have made the survivors wary of the Staffman.

Theories I've seen be thrown around:

-The skeleton Wilson found is WX-78's human body- I like it, a nice piece of worldbuilding

-Wagstaff is Wilson from the future- hate it, bad, what is this, a Lightyear reference? Klei don't you dare pull something like that on us

-Wagstaff is out of the Constant- sigh, sure seems like it. I liked my own headcannon, that Staffster was held captive in some sort of 'old science man jail' dimension that They refused to connect to the main Constant and he had to find a way to project himself there. Could still be valid of course, if he found a way to project himself to the main Constant, maybe he's found a way to escape the dimension altogether. Still, the devs have confirmed that it was Wagstaff who fell into the portal in WInona's video. And yet his hand at the end is clearly not hologramed.

-Wagstaff controls the Constant- Idk about that one... and I also don't like it. This could lead to some very cliché 'It was me all along!' moments. Like 'oooh it was Wagstaff who gave Maxwell the codex, it was Wagstaff who made sure that Wilson lived in his house, it was Wagstaff who sent a Terrorbeak after Willow, it was Wagstaff who ordered WIllow to burn down the library, It was Wagstaff who blew Abigail's head off with a shotgun, it was Wagstaff who made Maxwell's train crash. OMG Wagstaff is actually Them! He created the Constant!'. Like, it's pretty cool that he's responsible for Wx and Webber (and now Wilson I guess) but lets stop it at that. Plus, like I said, Wagstaff should be a 'belives he is in control and above the rules but is actually still very much bound to them'-type character. Imagine if dst had some sort of big finale or something and Wagstaff is all 'ha ha it's too late to stop me now, I know this world better than anyone and anything! I AM ABOVE THEM!' but then a single thing goes wrong and everything comes crashing down on him, leaving him actually stuck in the Constant, the illusion that he found a way to travel freely in and out shattered

As for the implications that this video leaves us with- I dunno, I guess that some sort of 'Charlie vs Wagstaff, choose your ally' thingy is coming up, with Wilson already by Wagstaff's side and Maxwell- Charlie's.

The ending is strange, I suppose that maybe Wilson's Portal is the only one still standing, hence what allowed Wagstaff to connect and travel back to Earth. But that would be a retcon, as in the original animation Wilson's portal made shadow hands come out of the ground, rather than create a doorway. I guess Roberto could've upgraded the thing. The radio static is also strange, maybe something important, maybe just a way to end the video. Maybe Wagstaff has multiple holograms and tuning the radio allows him to decide which one will be his actual, physical body. Maybe he's just switching a body in that scene. That could also explain how he can be both in the Constant and back home. Y'know, tune the radio, you're working in the Hamlet, tune it again, you're back in dst, tune it again, you're back on Earth

[Quoth143]

I definitely get amoral scientist vibes from Wagstaff and it's really gonna blow up on the survivors as well as Charlie if he gets far enough. He doesn't really seem to care what happens to anyone so long as he reaches the end point of his goal. 

[Szczuku]

7 minutes ago, Quoth143 said:

I definitely get amoral scientist vibes from Wagstaff

Well his quote for Aporkalypse Calendar is literally 'I wonder if I can make the world end sooner' so... yeah

[Dragonboooorn]

5 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Well his quote for Aporkalypse Calendar is literally 'I wonder if I can make the world end sooner' so... yeah

Hes just curious

[Quoth143]

8 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Well his quote for Aporkalypse Calendar is literally 'I wonder if I can make the world end sooner' so... yeah

Yup, sounds about right. 

[lowercase skye]

8 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Well his quote for Aporkalypse Calendar is literally 'I wonder if I can make the world end sooner' so... yeah

He is quite literally looking at an object which the primary function of is to cause the world to end faster or slower. He's looking directly at an object made up of a clock counting down the end of the world and two pressure plates, one of which causes the clock to go backwards thus delaying the end of the world, and the other which causes it to go forward and thus cause the world to end faster. This is one of the most basic observations he could make about the Aporkalypse calendar.

[DDNW]

My theory is a bit different about what we see. This disruption we see at the end makes me feel, the "In between" stuff there was lot's told, Wagstaf is stuck in, is a reflection of our world, but not truly. Look that it's exactly the same, as what we see on the clones of Wagstaf in Constant. 
I see it, as he's stuck controling this "in between" world by steering the frequency on the radio, which allows him to influence the constant, but keeps trying to find a way to fully break out of this "in between" - into Constant, or Out

 

[ThymeSpirit]

40 minutes ago, sylvia wander o said:

He is quite literally looking at an object which the primary function of is to cause the world to end faster or slower. He's looking directly at an object made up of a clock counting down the end of the world and two pressure plates, one of which causes the clock to go backwards thus delaying the end of the world, and the other which causes it to go forward and thus cause the world to end faster. This is one of the most basic observations he could make about the Aporkalypse calendar.

This quote shows that he doesn't care if his curiosity leads to a disaster. Because if he did, he would say "I wonder if I can delay/prevent the end of the world", as like you just said, the clock has 2 options. He's definitely an amoral scientist type of character. This story arc is likely going to be about choosing a lesser evil to side with (and either they end up equally horrible, or the Lunar side will be the more evil one, as a subversion of the "dark=evil, light=good" trope).

[lowercase skye]

1 minute ago, ThymeSpirit said:

This quote shows that he doesn't care if his curiosity leads to a disaster. Because if he did, he would say "I wonder if I can delay/prevent the end of the world", as like you just said, the clock has 2 options.

The clear use of the clock is to turn it backwards, yes, which is why one might curiously wonder aloud if it works in reverse.

[ThymeSpirit]

6 minutes ago, sylvia wander o said:

The clear use of the clock is to turn it backwards, yes, which is why one might curiously wonder aloud if it works in reverse.

It's not the only of his quotes where he shows indifference to the consequences of his actions. But if you want to headcanon him as something else, then who am I to stop you.
He also threw WX, his former coworker, into the constant, I think that's pretty evil, unless you think that Maxwell also did nothing wrong.

[maxwell_winters]

3 minutes ago, ThymeSpirit said:

He also threw WX, his former coworker, into the constant, I think that's pretty evil,

He threw WX into the constant because they were going haywire. He might have done it to protect other people from them.

[Szczuku]

1 hour ago, sylvia wander o said:

He is quite literally looking at an object which the primary function of is to cause the world to end faster or slower. He's looking directly at an object made up of a clock counting down the end of the world and two pressure plates, one of which causes the clock to go backwards thus delaying the end of the world, and the other which causes it to go forward and thus cause the world to end faster. This is one of the most basic observations he could make about the Aporkalypse calendar.

The clear use of the clock is to turn it backwards, yes, which is why one might curiously wonder aloud if it works in reverse.

[lowercase skye]

2 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

meme to own me to death

Put the ultimate ownage meme down, I'm not saying Wagstaff isn't a morally questionable character, just that this quote is flimsy evidence. Wagstaff's definitely a complex character that doesn't exactly seem like the most moral guy ever, the guy just wants to "innovate" regardless of who it might hurt: he'll talk about solving world hunger or revolutionizing medicine via the constant one second, then talk about how shadow magic could be used for the US military the next. He's a pretty bad dude! But pointing to the Aporkalypse calendar quote just doesn't work to prove that imo, as it's simply a quote showing off his constant and consistent curiosity.

[Szczuku]

6 minutes ago, sylvia wander o said:

But pointing to the Aporkalypse calendar quote just doesn't work to prove that imo, as it's simply a quote showing off his constant and consistent curiosity.

Sure, but outside of Maxwell no other character implies that they are going to use the calendar for world-ending purposes. Even Wx-78, and they are an evil character

[DrMcGillacactus]

 

7 minutes ago, sylvia wander o said:

Put the ultimate ownage meme down, I'm not saying Wagstaff isn't a morally questionable character, just that this quote is flimsy evidence. Wagstaff's definitely a complex character that doesn't exactly seem like the most moral guy ever, the guy just wants to "innovate" regardless of who it might hurt: he'll talk about solving world hunger or revolutionizing medicine via the constant one second, then talk about how shadow magic could be used for the US military the next. He's a pretty bad dude! But pointing to the Aporkalypse calendar quote just doesn't work to prove that imo, as it's simply a quote showing off his constant and consistent curiosity.

While you're right, it definitely does not prove anything on its own, it works alongside all the other ambiguous quotes he has. That was just one example of his immediate thought being less than savory

[YouKnowWho]

1 hour ago, Szczuku said:

The ending is strange, I suppose that maybe Wilson's Portal is the only one still standing, hence what allowed Wagstaff to connect and travel back to Earth. But that would be a retcon, as in the original animation Wilson's portal made shadow hands come out of the ground, rather than create a doorway. I guess Roberto could've upgraded the thing.

While there don’t seem to be any explicit modifications, it’s interesting to note that the portal we see is collapsed out of it’s Maxwell State. Maybe some of Wilson’s forbidden knowledge had more merit than we realized? It could be the missing piece why Wagstaff's portals never seem to work.

[Radi_]

7 hours ago, ThymeSpirit said:

It's not the only of his quotes where he shows indifference to the consequences of his actions. But if you want to headcanon him as something else, then who am I to stop you.
He also threw WX, his former coworker, into the constant, I think that's pretty evil, unless you think that Maxwell also did nothing wrong.

Didn't WX fall into the portal themselves? It's just clear that Wagstaff is coming to the portal…

 

[Neu7ral]

19 hours ago, sylvia wander o said:

He is quite literally looking at an object which the primary function of is to cause the world to end faster or slower. He's looking directly at an object made up of a clock counting down the end of the world and two pressure plates, one of which causes the clock to go backwards thus delaying the end of the world, and the other which causes it to go forward and thus cause the world to end faster. This is one of the most basic observations he could make about the Aporkalypse calendar.

Thanks for not pulling the "he wants to end the world!!11!" card when he inspects the Aporkalypse Calendar.

[maradyne]

I'm just curious about what this means for the Winona short, and the person that fell into the portal. Seeing his glove again, people commenting on the differences.
It could be someone else, but...was it just Wagstaff before a visual redesign/finalized design? In which case he fell into the Constant and then left?

That...would actually make some sense. It would be why that house was abandoned when Wilson came along.
Then Wilson builds the portal...and suddenly, Wagstaff has something in the outside world that he can connect to. The factory portal was presumably destroyed; Wilson's was just kind of left there.

 

Curiouser and curiouser.

[gamehun20]

14 minutes ago, maradyne said:

was it just Wagstaff before a visual redesign/finalized design

I think it was confirmed that Wagstaff was the one who fell into the portal in Winona's short