Quick Question...

[LiamAshvinn001]

I'm just curious, did we ever know why DST compared to Don't Starve started being generally less creepy? I mean not just the art style change, stuff like insanity ambience and general horror elements started being less prevalent in the game.

[Dunk Mujunk]

I think the level of knowledge people have (at least the people here on the forums) combine with being able to play multiplayer is a massive blow to the horror/creepiness ambiance that can't really be countered. That on top of experiencing the same stuff 12 billion times. Not a knock against Klei, we all play the s*** out of this game, nothing is gonna stay creepy in that circumstance.

That along with people wanting to be able to turn stuff down/off, QoL changes, Year of blank, things that are kinda the polar opposite of the original spirit of DS. Don't get me wrong DST is thriving in the current direction, but it's pretty far removed from what DS initially was.

[Well-met]

Being alone was a major factor for the spookiness so by default DST multiplayer is already less atmospheric without even changing anything.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, LiamAshvinn001 said:

I'm just curious, did we ever know why DST compared to Don't Starve started being generally less creepy? I mean not just the art style change, stuff like insanity ambience and general horror elements started being less prevalent in the game.

My question is why you think like this, there’s several creepy toned things in DST.. (admit-ably a good bit of it is skins but still) In fact I’d go so far as to say that the Gothic skins I own make my worlds look even more bizarre & creepy then Solo DS.

And if your looking for terrifying Mobs, a surprise attack from a RockJaw Shark should do the trick.

the Lunar Horror mobs (hounds & penguins) still exist within the game even though Klei discontinued these Mighty Max style Grotesque creature designs.

I personally hope someday they revisit this concept, even if it’s only as a completely optional DLC shader people like myself who grew up with bizarre shows like Ah Real Monsters, BeetleJuice and Courage the Cowardly Dog can feel right at home with. <3

Klei can say it doesn’t fit the theme and direction they wanna take the franchise in all they want, but if I’m being perfectly honest I don’t think even the folks at KLEI know fully what they want the DS franchise to be.. and there’s proof in that within the skins they release, rather they do it intentionally or unintentionally..

Just look at my Wigfrid in my survivors collection!

Yes she’s a mutated Minotaur with her ribs showing and lunar glass shattering through her chest. I don’t care if she wasn’t who the skin was originally designed for- the fact I CAN do this proves that Klei’s Lunar Horror content still exists through the variety of skins you can buy/weave.

Maybe this isn’t the answer you had hoped for.. but I get sick of hearing people whine about art & atmosphere direction change for dst when to me.. DSTs skins allow DST to look creepier than DS ever DREAMED of..

I mean this is a game where we can wear a demonic eyeball mask that eats food to repair its armor, and can carry around floating eyeball pets..

I’d like to see you do any of that in the highly overrated Solo DS without mods.

[Dunk Mujunk]

18 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I mean this is a game where we can wear a demonic eyeball mask that eats food to repair its armor, and can carry around floating eyeball pets..

And yet the hot new thing is pillow fights with fluffy bunny rabbits. 

You can

20 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

get sick of hearing people whine about art & atmosphere direction change for dst 

but the spirit of the game has changed massively from what it began as, there is absolutely no denying it. Skins and art don't make the creepiness.

[Cloakingsumo198]

I think that when the quality of the game's art began to get crispier it began to lose abit of that early on Tim Burton aesthetic of it being dark and sketchy.

Then reign of giants, shipwrecked and hamlet dlcs came out as fun side objectives adding lots of colorful things to see expanding the world past that original bleak beginnings of Maxwell's fake stage like world with one's that felt more "alive".

Maxwell was also part of the huge creepy factor because he was such a shady figure with no real clear objective to him aside from him tormenting the player and then at the end turning out to also be a puppet to an even greater malevolent force that was also not really understood at the time.

In the end the player doesn't even get a good ending instead they take Maxwell's place trapped terrified on a throne after he LITERALLY "DIES" Infront of you when he's finally released from it.

It feels like such a kick in the gut after the player goes through all the trouble to get there to presumably escape only to realize that they were becoming part of a cycle confirmed by the final message after fading to black.

So yeah it felt really lovecraftian in a way it was existential horror packed into such a simple game and played out beautifully.

Like canonically the dlc's are Wilson's failed attempts to try to escape without using Maxwell's "things" and even when he's in these new world's he still finds them again and again.

Wilson also dies alot in canon and it could be debated that aside from regular revival there could be quantum immortality that if player fails to do things "right" the first time they could always just wind back up in the same place.

[Cloakingsumo198]

Atleast that was the case before together continued on that story and then completely killed the feeling that the original adventure mode ending conveyed.

Spoiler

¡Adios!

A "Different" evil

Goofy ahh fight

Frienemies

A new hope

So yeah together is more light hearted, and it's definitely taken a different kind of tone compared to DSA though we can now all play together it was inevitable and quite frankly I welcome it.

[Lardee]

I'd assume that Don't Starve was a really indie game when it was first launched so, like many indie games, it tried to appeal to a more niche genre.  However with its success and the subsequent success of Don't Starve Together, they've transitioned to a more light-hearted tone to broaden the game's appeal.

[DVGMedia]

There are also different sounds in dst compared to ds
Ds has alot more attention to sounds and such Theres more ambiance in single player that is not there in dst

Go ahead and listen at night you will hear more sounds than in dst.
So there are certain things that are different in the staging in dst.
that and also ds you are alone with the chance of losing everything while dst doesn't have that as heavily

 

[Mr Giggio]

I do miss the creepy but at the same time Im not sure how they could keep it on

 

DWT isnt that indie anymore its pretty popular and it demands cuz, you know, kids also play games 

[gamehun20]

15 minutes ago, MrSoratori said:

they could keep it on

The mutant enemies

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, MrSoratori said:

you know, kids also play games

as someone who was a kid i think that kids would appreciate a soft creppy tone instead of doing what everyone does which is treating them as handicaped jellyfish.

You can see how shows like corage the cowardly dog, all tim Burton works, gargoyles, etc are really popular things aimed for kids

 

[Catteflyterpill]

11 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

[SNIP]

I don't think skins really pertain to the creepy ambience of the game. They're just meant for a character to look interesting or fit an aesthetic, it's like wearing a costume and not something that really adds to the horror elements of the game. I think the issue comes from Don't Starve's original Lovecraftian themes fading off into the background. Not just a creepy aesthetic, but it doesn't feel like DST really retains those themes with forbidden knowledge, nightmarish creatures and an unforgiving world. 

Which isn't to say that I want the game to be impossibly hard, or for everything to be edgy and gritty. But when we forgo the lunar mutant designs and instead get a bunny sleepover, it just feels like there is a big loss of atmosphere that could've been. And I'm glad people enjoy it, but knowing that the Lovecraftian themes were what really drew me into the game in the first place, just feels kinda sad that there's a bit of a loss to what charmed me. 

[Cloakingsumo198]

2 hours ago, Catteflyterpill said:

it's like wearing a costume

Since together introduced many new portals along with space and time manipulators like Wanda and wortox I always assumed that the skins were alternate universes especially since everyone comes in through the postern like where did they come from?

Even the first 3 sets survivor, guest of honor, and triumphant really gave off the vibe that many things could have played out differently.

[Catteflyterpill]

10 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Since together introduced many new portals along with space and time manipulators like Wanda and wortox I always assumed that the skins were alternate universes especially since everyone comes in through the postern like where did they come from?

Especially since the first 3 sets survivor, guest of honor, and triumphant really gave off the vibe that many things could have played out differently.

Yeah, they do show alternate universes, as well as interesting themes and designs for the characters. But at the end of the day, it's still wearing a costume that doesn't have a lot o bearing on the story or themes of the game, being a product of the themes instead. I think the skins are great, there's some I really like. But it's not much of a measure for DST feeling creepy or less creepy as a whole, is what I'm saying. 

[Cloakingsumo198]

20 minutes ago, Catteflyterpill said:

being a product of the themes instead

I feel like that's been the case of awhile now we get a new theme and then some a new layer of paint gets added to our canvas.

Maxwell was what created the lovecraftian theme at the start with his ominous presence and weird stage-like world.

Chess, stage, lovecraftian themes

But under Charlie's rule it's been a lot of "renovating" and "restoration" to expand the world space and exploring parts that Maxwell didn't know about and generally focusing on things that make a world feel more alive she's even the reason that all those events take place for the survivors to participate in.

Rose, restoration, life themes

And then "wagstaff" comes in like an agent of chaos causing forced change for his plot and acting as a driving force for everyone else since it seems like he's playing by his own rules.

Dude maybe evil, maybe not but he probably represents the persistence of humanity to overcome things for our own benefit like Wilson.

Moon, pirate, science themes

Some might say that since so many themes get introduced to each other they clash and ruin the atmosphere but I love it just like life there are many perspectives and goals that differ yet are worked on simultaneously and then eventually meet I just wanna see how everything unfolds and settles in the end.

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, Catteflyterpill said:

Yeah, they do show alternate universes, as well as interesting themes and designs for the characters. But at the end of the day, it's still wearing a costume that doesn't have a lot o bearing on the story or themes of the game, being a product of the themes instead. I think the skins are great, there's some I really like. But it's not much of a measure for DST feeling creepy or less creepy as a whole, is what I'm saying. 

I can debunk this entirely because skins & skins alone can and do add to the creepy atmosphere- if you need any proof of that just play Minecraft, which has made its entire fortune off of just reskinning existing mobs and textures through Texture Packs.

And while DST doesn’t quite have full blown entire world altering texture packs, we have recently seen skins for things such as the Critters Den, Wormholes, and even Gravestones that make them look more creepy by being covered in moss and cracks, looking half abandoned etc.. I highly doubt Klei is just going to do those few and call it a day.. 

Now as far as actual gameplay goes- you can’t really compare an open world sandbox where you can do whatever you wanna do to a single player story driven episodic chapter based game.

DST does not have an “Adventure Mode” and depending upon HOW you play it will likely determine if it’s going to be creepy for you or not..

example: I have only killed BeeQueen Once, ONCE in my entire time playing the game… this may not “sound” important but just hold on.. Because I’ve only killed her once (and I play the game mostly solo with no other players) I don’t have access to things like the Bundling Wrap- which is meant to preserve both your food items & your Hambat durability.

What this means is that I play the entire game on a constant “decay” timer, my lightbulbs for my lanterns/miner hat start to decay, my food starts to decay, my trusty Hambat starts to decay.

Big deal right? Well let’s add all the OTHER things I don’t do-

I don’t uproot & move things like Berry bushes, saplings, reeds, etc from their naturally spawning locations- which means I have to return to those areas to gather rather than everything I’ll ever need being conveniently located in my base.

I also have rarely ever used death resurrection items I’ve never crafted a “Meat Effigy” in my entire time playing Solo DS, Shipwrecked, Hamlet or DST- I’ve barely used a LGA.. for me the “fear” of dying is still a ever looming threat.

The way people play this game is a MASSIVE factor into how creepy it’s going to be.. 

exploring the empty corridors of the Ancient Archives or the Atrium when the food you have with you is on a Decay Timer & you start starving to death trying to beat the clock back to the surface (or at least to ANY nearby naturally spawning food sources you can throw over into a crockpot..) is a heart racing & quite spooky experience.

Things add up- 

Playing Alone = no one to revive you but yourself, Not having BQ bundles = Food & Hambats on a Decaying timer, Leaving resources in their natural spawning location = having to make return trips for twigs and grass & reeds when you start running out.

despite the way I play the game I’ve managed to get all the achievements in both DS & DST.

Another thing that will absolutely kill the spooky factor for you is being here on these forums or on the DST Wiki looking up every single thing about every little update that comes out.

encountering a Shattered Spider for the first time.. that’s terrifying. Being morphed into a funky little monkey and losing access to your characters abilities is equally spooky..

You guys are really only looking at this game from one type of perspective 

And sure if you compare the recent Year of (cute little side mini game event) to a game content update like Troubled Waters or Forgotten Knowledge… then I guess the only thing your EVER going to see is cute little pillow fighting bunnies.

Meanwhile… I’m starving to death running around in a mostly empty underground labyrinth trying to get OUT of the Archives & back to ANY food source I can find before I kick the bucket.

[Catteflyterpill]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

[snip]

I feel like there's a misunderstanding with what is meant by creepy. Some of the stuff you said sounds anxiety inducing, I'm sure the moments where you're trying hard to not die can be terrifying. But that's different from the root of what makes something creepy or horrifying. Reskinning everything with gothic skins doesn't make a game horrifying. It's a coole aesthetic, but it's akin to a Halloween decoration. What I'm talking about is the themes of the game. Body horror with lunar mutations, nightmare creatures, ruins of an ancient society lost to a dark corruption, entities beyond a person's understanding in a world that doesn't make sense. These are the Lovecraftian themes that are tied into Don't Starve. Even though DS and DST are darkly whimsical, there's still these unnerving undertones that draw a lot of people in. So when there's a bit too much whimsy and not enough dark, I think for a lot of people it loses a bit of the interesting that hooked us to begin with. 

Don't Starve isn't Minecraft, or any other plethora of games. While analogies can be useful to show parallels or mechanics/ideas that work in other games I feel like some of the comparisons you make don't make sense for the type of game/atmosphere of Don't Starve. Texture packs in Minecraft transform the entire world, to change the atmosphere. Reskinning a gravestone and the sinkhole aren't going to make people feel like Don't Starve is a dark story painted over with a cute, approachable coat. In fact it makes a bit cheesy which is the opposite of that. 

You can say that some horror elements are lost because of multiplayer or anything, and sure. It's not as scary, but that's still different from those darker themes. The game doesn't need to rely on jumpscares or cheap gimmicks to still enthrall people with something that feels morbid.

[Mike23Ua]

Okay remind me again which game had darker more morbid content- was it DS or DST?

choose your answer carefully here because the “body mutations” you speak of was a DST content update, NOT DS.

Now maybe I haven't been part of these forums as long as some of you have, maybe by the time I actually got to PLAY DS it had already shifted away from the darker picture you all paint it with- but the game I played (DS Giant Edition on Xbox) was a “fully completed game” it wasn’t getting updates anymore to add new content, it didn’t get this “atmosphere & tone shift” in between updates.. by the time Xbox had gotten the game all the content was already in the game and the only updates it got after release were small ones (such as the ability to place fences or tame a Beefalo)

DST on the other-hand IS still getting updates, is still getting new gameplay content on Xbox/PS/NS/PC, and that’s something that differentiates it from DS- only PC (and to an extent PS..) players got to see Solo DS updated with New content/changes… Xbox & Nintendo already got the completed package:

Example: There is not a single copy of DS you can buy on Xbox that DOES NOT include Wigfrid & Webber, however Playstation got them as a separate DLC update called Reign of Giants.

ROG has always and forever been a core part of Xbox version.

Just like people playing DST on Switch never got a version of the game that did NOT already include several reworks & the Turn of Tides boating update- 

On Xbox we used to play in worlds with cardboard cutout oceans that were only there as scenery or to block pathways, then the Turn of Tides update came out that added a sailable ocean with boats, but for switch players.. they’ll never even know the worlds ocean was once untouchable.

DST is very much a Work In Progress (or WiP) and because it’s a WiP it’s going to feel like things change & tones shift- however had DST been released like Solo DS and all it’s updates were already finished.. I highly doubt people would feel “as much” of a so called tone shift as you guys seem to think has happened now.

Now as far as the animated shorts go…. That’s an entirely different story altogether.

[Yuuko]

Its a combination of factors.  One of them is just exposure - as Dunk Majunk said, and Mike too - the more you're exposed to a situation, the more underlying factors you know about the system, the less horrifying it *can* be.  This is inevitable.  A large part of what is scary is what is unknown.  If you know exactly what interactions you will have then you can't really be scared of any of them.  This doesn't mean the game can't still have a spooky or creepy ambiance.  The B&W Addam's Family series had a great creepy, spooky and gothic atmosphere yet it was also light hearted and whimsical.

DST could aim to be more creepy and spooky, but it could never be scary without a complete overhaul aka The Screecher or something.  At this point we're basically sitting in the B&W Addam's Family though.

Another factor is that we aren't alone.  We're in a cooperative experience that is more sandbox driven, there are plenty of revive options, rollback, raid bosses we engage by choice and NONE of these things are bad, its just the evolution of taking a single player survivor horror and turning it into a multiplayer sandbox adventure.

Minecraft is the same thing.  If you start minecraft on your own without any knowledge about the game its going to be more scary and difficult, but if you start in with a pack of 4 other people who all know what the game is you might never get caught off guard by a creeper, and before you have a chance to starve to death you're building a castle in the sky and running automated food and xp farms.  No skin pack is going to dial that back lol

[mr. brj]

15 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

Ds has alot more attention to sounds and such Theres more ambiance in single player that is not there in dst

Don't forget the world generation screen. We rarely get to see it in DST but in DS, it's always greeting you with its eerie sounds when you start a world, or with those disturbingly bouncy sounds when you go down into the caves. I think it's a minor detail but has a larger impact on the whole than one might realize.

I would say the same for the main menu music and how we barely got to hear it for over a year until last week, but not everyone plays the game with the music on. I would say the title theme, while not creepy, still catches the DS vibes and apart from that, the only creepy soundtrack we got was during WX-78's refresh.

[gamehun20]

5 hours ago, mr. brj said:

Don't forget the world generation screen. We rarely get to see it in DST but in DS

Yeah, i kinda miss that rotating circle. Messed up that it is updated with the new stuff like the moon island but you barely see it

[Catteflyterpill]

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

[snip]

I'm not saying one has "more morbid content" DST pretty much encompasses everything DS has and then some. I'm talking about a tonal shift. Updates, events and aesthetics that feel apart from some of the roots of Don't Starve. I am super lost on this console update thing, I have no idea how that pertains to the conversation. I feel like I'm overlooking something or am just really lost.

DST is still being updated, but I feel like those updates don't add to the mood of the game in a way that was previously very engaging and interesting. I feel like it detracts from that. Are the updates great? Yeah, of course the game has come along way. Do I feel like maybe the core audience is shifting? Unfortunately so. I hope the devs consider that some people really enjoy the darker aspects of the game and don't stary from it but the only way we can make them aware while they develop the game is to let them know our thoughts, right?