Wickerbottom should require different workstations/meet certain requirements to make her books.

[deemo_]

I’ve seen a lot of complaining in and out of the forums about how Wicker’s books are quite strong and may make some features of the game redundant because of their amazing utility (i.e. Summer made very easy via rain book or the plethora of uses for the full moon book). 
 

The books, to me, feel like they don’t have any progression incorporated into them, some books are clearly stronger than others, and while their crafting recipe may help to mitigate this, it feels weird that you have access to such strong books just by selecting Wicker.
 

My suggestion is that Wicker should have to “learn” or use a specific workstation to craft a book, as it doesn’t make much sense that she can have all of this knowledge without first learning it. For example, Wicker shouldn’t be able to just summon Grumble Bees without any work, I believe she should have to have at least inspected/seen the Bee Queen first (or have even killed it). The book that spawns fishes could be learned through a “conversation” with Pearl, as Pearl is an avid fisher. The Lunar Grimoire should have to be crafted at one of the Lunar stations, as it is said quite clearly that those stations “speak” or communicate to the characters.

Wicker not having any progression in her books feels odd to me, as progression is what keeps the game fresh as you go, you’re unlocking new things to try out instead of having everything available from the get-go. Other characters have this progression in place for similar reasons, Walter has super good slingshot ammo that can only be crafted in the ruins, Wanda has to wait until Winter to one of her best watches, and WX has to jump through tons of spiky, sting-y and hostile hoops to get his modules.

Please tell me what you think of this suggestion, since as a console player I can’t speak from the standpoint of someone who has played the beta. Be as critical as you need to be and tell me if you agree or disagree.

Afterthought: I’ve just realised that Wicker beginning with all this knowledge could be explained by the deal she may have made with Maxwell when entering the constant, making this suggestion moot from a lore standpoint. However, we haven’t seen the animated short yet so she might have not even made a deal to enter the constant, like Wes or WX.

[Cheggf]

31 minutes ago, deemo_ said:

I’ve seen a lot of complaining in and out of the forums about how Wicker’s books are quite strong and may make some features of the game redundant because of their amazing utility (i.e. Summer made very easy via rain book or the plethora of uses for the full moon book). 

And these complaints are present in every single rework. In WX's rework I saw a few people complaining about his silly music thing which doesn't even do much of anything. Summer is already very easy and the people complaining about it ignore 100% of its mechanics by going underground and all the complaints about the lunar book have already been debunked. Keep in mind that WX ignores weather and darkness permanently for free, Wendy ignores anything smaller than a boss permanently for free, Wolfgang has large boosts to both combat and gathering, etc. The characters are all very powerful and typically very powerful for little to no thought or resource expenditure. None of Wickerbottom's books are problematic. 

[skile]

1 hour ago, deemo_ said:

Walter has super good slingshot ammo

good one. 

[Ohan]

1 hour ago, deemo_ said:

For example, Wicker shouldn’t be able to just summon Grumble Bees without any work, I believe she should have to have at least inspected/seen the Bee Queen first (or have even killed it). The book that spawns fishes could be learned through a “conversation” with Pearl, as Pearl is an avid fisher. The Lunar Grimoire should have to be crafted at one of the Lunar stations, as it is said quite clearly that those stations “speak” or communicate to the characters.

Stuff like this definitely should be considered. Not even strictly for balance reasons but just because it makes the gameplay more interesting. Especially the Grimoire, ive said this several times now, its a huge pity that it doesnt require sailing to the lunar island and assembling the alter there. That would be so much more interesting. 

Aside from some minor tweaks to the books themselves mechanics wise, character is whats lacking a little. Which can be remedied by spreading some of the books around and adding some more interest that way. 

Not every single book should have a new source though since she specifically got her own book crafting station, wouldnt make sense not to have the majority of her books made there. Her old books for example definitely dont need to be changed in this regard. (Since most if not all already have it: t.spot and t2 science for on tentacles, t1 magic for sleepy, t2 magic for tEiN, etc.)

A couple books where its more interesting to add a ‘questline’ to should get one. Like the grimoire. Royal jelly for Apiculture would also be appropriate. Wicker is one of the best bq killers anyway.

 

Having a progression system to her books in this way would add more interest. 

[Mysterious box]

Honestly it comes off as weird from a player perspective as well Wickerbottom references the archives in her moon book which feels like a spoiler of sorts but is never required to go the archives to learn it and then there's grumble bee summons how does she know how to summon them before meeting the bee queen it makes you wonder when the update trailers take place in relation to when we're playing and causes a strange time inconsistency between characters.

[Noaa]

I think it would be fun for some book recipes to depend on getting related materials. 

Like as it stands crafting On Tentacles requires tentacle spots. That's cool. 

What if Lunar Grimoire required distilled knowledge? 

Apicultural Notes required Bundling Wrap? 

The Fishing Book required some of Pearl's shells?

Would make it more fun to venture out into the world to craft these books. 

[Ohan]

5 minutes ago, Noaa said:

What if Lunar Grimoire required distilled knowledge

Omg ofcourse.. the entire time i was thinking how the grimoire could be unlocked OUT of a distilled knowledge but u could use the “egg” itself in the recipe instead without further complicating things! 

All three fountains keep dropping non-descript “distilled knowledge”s even after u unlock all three blueprints right? Can they stay in ur inventory forever even if u go above ground etc? Ive never thought to get more eggs after i unlock all three BPs so im not sure. 

But this would be so perfect! It would still effectively lock it behind an opal though to activate the archives but afterwards getting the eggs is basically free so maaybe its okay? I imagine the recipe would require an egg and a few moon rocks.

That would be soooooo much more appropriate considering her examination quote and everything. 

[deemo_]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

None of Wickerbottom's books are problematic. 

I agree. It seems I put too much of an emphasis on the strength of her books in my post, I really don’t think any of them are “overpowered” or anything. I simply think, in her current state, Wickerbottom doesn’t really incentivise you to explore when she could and it would reward you appropriately for doing so. Adding that extra step to unlock some of her books would make the character much more exciting in my opinion.

1 hour ago, skile said:

good one. 

While it’s not amazing, that’s only because it comes from Walter’s Slingshot, which is not ideal for damage dealing. When comparing the ruins ammo to the other slingshot ammo, it is quite good.

1 hour ago, Ohan said:

Not every single book should have a new source though since she specifically got her own book crafting station

I agree, that’s why I only mentioned the 3 in my post, many of them make complete sense to be able to craft early on (Sleepytime Stories, End is Nigh etc). But some of the new ones could be made much more exciting through an unlocking process.

[skile]

1 minute ago, deemo_ said:

While it’s not amazing, that’s only because it comes from Walter’s Slingshot, which is not ideal for damage dealing. When comparing the ruins ammo to the other slingshot ammo, it is quite good.

 

true, although it's usefulness still largely depends on the enemy it's used against. 

[dois raios]

1 hour ago, Ohan said:

Having a progression system to her books in this way would add more interest. 

Pls, klei gave this mechanic to wx, let us enjoy this simple and perfect rework without this exactly same mechanic again.

I loved the way it is now, it is simple and good, you will eventually travel the whole wolrd anyway, there is no need to force every single character to do a mini task if they want to use their perks. Some characters already have this mechanic, lets try something different this time, shall we?

[Ohan]

2 minutes ago, dois raios said:

Pls, klei gave this mechanic to wx, let us enjoy this simple and perfect rework without this exactly same mechanic again.

I loved the way it is now, it is simple and good, you will eventually travel the whole wolrd anyway, there is no need to force every single character to do a mini task if they want to use their perks. Some characters already have this mechanic, lets try something different this time, shall we?

I meant only for the few books where it makes sense though. Like dont u think 2 papyrus 1 royal jelly is a more fitting recipe for the Apiculture book? Instead of just honey and stingers which can be found on day 1?

It spawns BQ’s grumble bees so i think its fitting for it to require BQ drop. Like WX’s regeneration circuit mimicking Jelly Beans so it requires royals jelly. 

Thanks to tentacle trap any wicker should be swimming in royal jelly/jelly beans anyway, no? And thanks to bookcase these books will never have to go to waste. 

I didnt mean anything beyond that, no investigation mechanic like wx or anything. just more interesting/less simple recipes for the new books. 

The old books do this better i think, id just like this to be extended to some of the new ones as well. 

[dois raios]

13 minutes ago, Ohan said:

I meant only for the few books where it makes sense though. Like dont u think 2 papyrus 1 royal jelly is a more fitting recipe for the Apiculture book? Instead of just honey and stingers which can be found on day 1?

It spawns BQ’s grumble bees so i think its fitting for it to require BQ drop. Like WX’s regeneration circuit mimicking Jelly Beans so it requires royals jelly. 

Thanks to tentacle trap any wicker should be swimming in royal jelly/jelly beans anyway, no? And thanks to bookcase these books will never have to go to waste. 

I didnt mean anything beyond that, no investigation mechanic like wx or anything. just more interesting/less simple recipes for the new books. 

The old books do this better i think, id just like this to be extended to some of the new ones as well. 

I still think that more simple the recipe is, better it will be.

All books have simple recipes, for me, it is strange just 1 book having an rare ingredient (boss drop) while the others have simple recipes.

[maxwell_winters]

Just now, dois raios said:

I still think that more simple the recipe is, better it will be.

I agree, WX should craft his tier 2 speed circuit with rocks after scanning a boulder, Warly should make damage reduction spice with berries and Wanda should craft time pieces with flint instead of thulecite. 

[dois raios]

15 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

I agree, WX should craft his tier 2 speed circuit with rocks after scanning a boulder, Warly should make damage reduction spice with berries and Wanda should craft time pieces with flint instead of thulecite. 

Common dude, 1 gear, some bio data and the first circuit is pretty simple

As warly you literally use garlic, there is no way it could be simpler

Wanda use also simple ingredients, what could be better to use nightmare than thulecite?!

It could cost a boss drop to craft the book, but for what purpose? Just to make hard to obtain?  It is better to mantain it simple, just my opinion.

[Copyafriend]

1 hour ago, dois raios said:

Common dude, 1 gear, some bio data and the first circuit is pretty simple

As warly you literally use garlic, there is no way it could be simpler

Wanda use also simple ingredients, what could be better to use nightmare than thulecite?!

It could cost a boss drop to craft the book, but for what purpose? Just to make hard to obtain?  It is better to mantain it simple, just my opinion.

Thulecite is the strongest material in the game,

garlic is actually one of the rarer plants and you need it every time you use that ability

and gears are a limited resource, and you need 3 for the full effect.

 

[Mike23Ua]

4 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Thulecite is the strongest material in the game,

garlic is actually one of the rarer plants and you need it every time you use that ability

and gears are a limited resource, and you need 3 for the full effect.

 

Gears is actually not a limited resource.. you can get them from tumbleweeds if you just be patient enough.

https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Tumbleweed
 

Along with several other things such as Blueprints other players may have burned away in a campfire thinking they could lock you out of permanently by destroying

(silly griefers..)

[maxwell_winters]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Gears is actually not a limited resource.. you can get them from tumbleweeds if you just be patient enough.

Gears are not that limited but they still require some work to get.  They don't fall from skies. Unlike the moon rock...

[Copyafriend]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Gears is actually not a limited resource.. you can get them from tumbleweeds if you just be patient enough.

I am aware, but my point is that in every situation mentioned he is comparing a much rarer resource than moon rocks to moon rocks. Moon rocks imho is a fairy common ingredient. It may nor be regular rocks level but its honestly only a slight step up. If you find a meteor field there bound to be at least 2 in there (multiple meteor fields per world), the moon stone has a few moon rocks, and if you go into the archives you’ll have plenty. They’re pretty common. I hopped into a public world last night and it was full moons every night and it was only day 20. I dont think that should be doable without a lot of effort. No bosses were dead either.
all im saying is that the strongest light based item in the game providing light for everyone on the surface, should probably require something a bit rarer than moon stones. 
 

personally i have steadily become more convinced they should add in a yellow gem to the recipe, because the mooncaller staff is made from a starcaller staff in the moon stone, and the recipe would then be a yellow gem and moon rock. Makes perfect sense to me at least

 

[Mike23Ua]

7 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

I am aware, but my point is that in every situation mentioned he is comparing a much rarer resource than moon rocks to moon rocks. Moon rocks imho is a fairy common ingredient. It may nor be regular rocks level but its honestly only a slight step up. If you find a meteor field there bound to be at least 2 in there (multiple meteor fields per world), the moon stone has a few moon rocks, and if you go into the archives you’ll have plenty. They’re pretty common. I hopped into a public world last night and it was full moons every night and it was only day 20. I dont think that should be doable without a lot of effort. No bosses were dead either.
all im saying is that the strongest light based item in the game providing light for everyone on the surface, should probably require something a bit rarer than moon stones. 
 

personally i have steadily become more convinced they should add in a yellow gem to the recipe, because the mooncaller staff is made from a starcaller staff in the moon stone, and the recipe would then be a yellow gem and moon rock. Makes perfect sense to me at least

 

Correct me if I’m wrong about this but, can’t you also get yellow gems for free by just sleeping next to a WinterFeast tree in worlds that have had WF active in them?

I mean if you really want to make the player work for this book it should require needing to visit various parts of the constant to gather Moon Themed Content such as LunarMoth Wing, Shattered Glass, Moon Rock, Crustashine etc..

Its ironic that I bring up WintersFeast because actually making all the recipes available for the Masonry Oven requires the player to travel all over the constant to gather.

[maxwell_winters]

12 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

personally i have steadily become more convinced they should add in a yellow gem to the recipe, because the mooncaller staff is made from a starcaller staff in the moon stone, and the recipe would then be a yellow gem and moon rock. Makes perfect sense to me at least

The iridescent gem is the yellow gem transformed by the Moon. And it also has light-summoning purposes. Out of all the items in the game, the iridescent gem makes the most sense for Lunar Grimoire. 

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Crustashine

They're not lunar. They came from another part of the Constant with monkeys. Nothing in the Moon Quay is lunar. I guess the pun is confusing people. 

[skile]

24 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Correct me if I’m wrong about this but, can’t you also get yellow gems for free by just sleeping next to a WinterFeast tree in worlds that have had WF active in them?

key word: sleeping 

[Mike23Ua]

54 minutes ago, skile said:

key word: sleeping 

So swap to Maxwell, sleep get free gems then?? Currently Max can read all her books anyway.

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

So swap to Maxwell, sleep get free gems then?? Currently Max can read all her books anyway.

I mean your still altering the world's settings to get what you want so I'm not sure the basis is a fair argument.

 

3 hours ago, dois raios said:

Common dude, 1 gear, some bio data and the first circuit is pretty simple

As warly you literally use garlic, there is no way it could be simpler

Wanda use also simple ingredients, what could be better to use nightmare than thulecite?!

It could cost a boss drop to craft the book, but for what purpose? Just to make hard to obtain?  It is better to mantain it simple, just my opinion.

I know I'm a broken record but Walter gets the shortest end of the stick in character specific crafts he needs to pray pubs don't use up all the marble before a proper marble farm gets started or keep killing fuel weaver or feeding dust moths to keep a steady supply of his highest damage dealing ammo type on a weapon that already does mediocre damage I feel like in consideration of the rest of the cost the moon book can stand to ask more than 2 moon stone which usually leads to infinite full moons in 10 days or less.

[Mike23Ua]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean your still altering the world's settings to get what you want so I'm not sure the basis is a fair argument.

 

I know I'm a broken record but Walter gets the shortest end of the stick in character specific crafts he needs to pray pubs don't use up all the marble before a proper marble farm gets started or keep killing fuel weaver or feeding dust moths to keep a steady supply of his highest damage dealing ammo type on a weapon that already does mediocre damage I feel like in consideration of the rest of the cost the moon book can stand to ask more than 2 moon stone which usually leads to infinite full moons in 10 days or less.

I have a slightly off topic question but how many players can be on these “Pubs” everyone talks about? 
 

On Xbox our max player count is capped at 6, and it already feels like a Ghost Town roaming around before you ever encounter anyone. On Nintendo Switch the player count is less than that down to 4.

Theres plenty of resources for even an entire server of Walter when there’s 4-6 players Maximum allowed in the world.

[maxwell_winters]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

On Xbox our max player count is capped at 6, and it already feels like a Ghost Town roaming around before you ever encounter anyone. On Nintendo Switch the player count is less than that down to 4.

The cap on PC is also 6 but there are mods to change it. Official Klei servers actually allow up to 12 players.