[Bee Queen Strategy] Wall Cross, Wanda Solo, No Special Items

[goatt]

The wall cross separates Bee Queen from grumble bees in all 4 phases. Each side has 14 walls.

Upside: cheap, quick, battle feeling good, straight-forward, no cheese.

Downside: requires kiting skills.

Spoiler

demo

- If executed perfectly, Wanda will take 0 damage. But I can't do that.

- The kiting pattern should [dodge, 2 attacks] -> [dodge, 2 attacks] -> [dodge, 4 attacks], as can be seen at this timestamp.

- The challenge of kiting her is that it's hard to trigger her attack and still get away from that attack.

- Each of her attack leaves behind a honey trail which slows down players. Your old standing spot always has sticky honey after your successful dodge, so never go back to the old spot.

- In phase 3 and 4, Bee Queen is passive and keeps distance from you. You have to go up to her to trigger her attacks. However, with Wanda's bigger range, she's able to attack intermittently her without triggering any of her attacks, as can be seen at this timestamp.

- Wanda can also tolerate fighting with only football helmet in old form, because damage isn't too high too frequently.

- Phase 3 and 4 are harder because of her passive behavior and the difficulty of triggering attack (without speed boost). I would think it's a good trade to tanking her in those 2 phases including Wanda.

About Speed Boost

Wanda can solo using this strategy without speed boost, but other melee characters need speed boost, especially in phase 3 and 4.

Theoretically, every character can beat Queen without receiving damage without speed boost, but it will take too much skill and time.

[loopuleasa]

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

I can't help but notice you going around the wall cross is like... going around the clock.

+1 for that flavor alone

[reallychina]

Original concept. I think a magi with thulecite crown would speed the fight considerably because you could cut even more distance relative to grumbles.

 

Also, fences would be cheaper, no?

 

In fact, i will try it right now.

[Eughstein]

wasn't grumble bees not flying over walls fixed?

[reallychina]

10 minutes ago, Eughstein said:

wasn't grumble bees not flying over walls fixed?

Grumbles act like regular bees so they never fly over walls

[Eughstein]

17 minutes ago, reallychina said:

Grumbles act like regular bees so they never fly over walls

ok bruh i remember someone was saying that it was fixed in wx update, just tested it and it works same as before, sorry

[goatt]

40 minutes ago, Eughstein said:

wasn't grumble bees not flying over walls fixed?

The fix was to allow bees to fly not on the exact path, so that they don’t have to squeeze into the same exact path and get stuck. But the path finding still takes effect.

@Eughstein

[Eughstein]

2 minutes ago, goatt said:

The fix was to allow bees to fly not on the exact path, so that they don’t have to squeeze into the same exact path and get stuck. But the path finding still takes effect.

@Eughstein

oh, thx for explaining

[loopuleasa]

4 hours ago, goatt said:

The fix was to allow bees to fly not on the exact path, so that they don’t have to squeeze into the same exact path and get stuck. But the path finding still takes effect.

@Eughstein

was the pathfinding fixed so that now you can't tank cheese BQ with a few walls and bug the pathfinding AI?

[Keller Max]

37 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

was the pathfinding fixed so that now you can't tank cheese BQ with a few walls and bug the pathfinding AI?

NOOOO! Why do they hate us so much? I hate BQ and always try to skip a fight. Oven was fixed and now this?

[DajeKotlyar]

12 minutes ago, Keller Max said:

NOOOO! Why do they hate us so much? I hate BQ and always try to skip a fight. Oven was fixed and now this?

Just pick Wendy and build a boat)

[loopuleasa]

33 minutes ago, DajeKotlyar said:

Just pick Wendy and build a boat)

sonn to be fixed most likely

[Cheggf]

6 hours ago, reallychina said:

Grumbles act like regular bees so they never fly over walls

Bees fly over walls if there's no other option.

[goatt]

4 hours ago, loopuleasa said:

was the pathfinding fixed so that now you can't tank cheese BQ with a few walls and bug the pathfinding AI?

Yeah, it’s impossible now. That’s why I posted the Wilson tank method to show some data and people can have a general expectation.

3 hours ago, Keller Max said:

Oven was fixed and now this?

Oven is still doable.

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Bees fly over walls if there's no other option.

Currently, grumble bees (maybe also bees?) follow path finding, and at the same time, fly over wall.

[NoodlemanNed]

what advantage does this have over using a straight line of walls with a fence gate in the middle

 

[Q42]

Very interesting, definitely gotta check this out.

[goatt]

42 minutes ago, NoodlemanNed said:

what advantage does this have over using a straight line of walls with a fence gate in the middle

Opening/closing door is error-prone, because you can get accidentally hit, and the separation is not always successful. But a wall cross not only separate queen and bees, but also distance you and everything else, giving you much more space to freestyle. Cross is also quicker, I think, because straight walls requires you to constantly drag queen and bees away from that door.

[Guille6785]

12 hours ago, goatt said:

Upside: no cheese

highly debatable

[goatt]

23 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

highly debatable

What's the cheese?

[Guille6785]

20 minutes ago, goatt said:

What's the cheese?

I don't think it's cheese myself but some people don't like the idea of exploiting pathfinding in the slightest

[reallychina]

Ok so i tried this myself.

 

While it does a good job at speeding 1st and 2nd phase, it seems to make 3rd and 4th stages trickier as BQ tries to run away from you, so you end up being better running the grumbles away in a straight line as you would do in a direct combat. Or maybe i haven't practiced it enough. Still, 1st and 2nd phase feel very comfortable and safe, the method puts a LOT of distance between BQ and non-enraged grumbles.

 

Magilumminescence and crown help a lot with positioning, so they speed up 1st and 2nd phase even more.

 

That being said, a fight with panflutes makes 1st and 2nd phases faster than this and in my opinion less resource intensive and safer, as spamming flutes protects you from all bq hits. Panflutes also speed up final stages if you time them right and tank bq with night armor.

 

For people that are not used to rushing ruins (so that you can deconstruct the pan flutes), this is a viable alternative for any character, not just wanda, you just need to lure bq 2 segments away and tank 1st and 2nd stage.

 

I can't stress enough how seamless and easy creating distance is in the 1st and 2nd stage.

 

There are probably improvements to be made with using this cross in combination with doors near the center.

 

[Dextops]

59 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I don't think it's cheese myself but some people don't like the idea of exploiting pathfinding in the slightest

hitting bosses is cheese (it reduces their health)

[Guille6785]

3 minutes ago, Dextops said:

hitting bosses is cheese (it reduces their health)

can't be cheesier than kiting (you literally negate all damage for free)

[goatt]

36 minutes ago, reallychina said:

it seems to make 3rd and 4th stages trickier as BQ tries to run away from you, so you end up being better running the grumbles away in a straight line as you would do in a direct combat.

You are absolutely right. That is the hard part. That's why I sorta recommend tanking her.

But it's not too hard to do it without tanking. In phase 3 and 4, she's not really running away from you, She mains a maximum distance from you after screeching and initial wandering. In other words, she will follow you if you move away afterwards, but she will not move away if you get closer. The maintained distance is about 2 tiles.

You can see what I'm talking about in the video demo, where she always gets closer until 2 tiles distance after screeching.

[Astraia]

I might try out this method and see if I like it, thanks for sharing this