Lurdiak Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 So when I joined these forums, the Wolfgang rework was a source of endless debate. Well, not really a debate... a lot of people just hated it and the only disagreement there was was about which specific way it should be fixed (and most thought just switching it back to the old wolfgang was the only acceptable answer). Dozens of threads, dramatic posts claiming people were going to stop playing until Wolfgang was fixed, insults thrown every which way, oaths of vengeance sworn, cats and dogs, living together. This latest update brought a ton of changes to Wolfgang's new mechanics, including adding a new item and changing some fundamental aspects of how he works, yet it seems not one person is discussing what was previously the most pressing topic on the forums. Do people like these changes? Is this silence acceptance? Or are people just too focused on complaining about the new crafting menu to notice?' Personally I really like all these new changes, they make Wolfgang a lot more forgiving and dynamic to use. Some of the changes are very unexpected, like how Wimpy Wolfgang now does well in heat but mighty does worse. What do you guys think? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretPizzaMan Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Wolfgang is great now. Awesome. Very great. 9/10. Can't go back without needing a wheelchair. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 There has been no response probably for 2 reasons. First off - most people who cared were in the beta which started late February, so this new release didn't bring any new information or surprise changes. Secondly - Klei took what I felt was the most important criticisms and balanced them with their core beliefs on the balance of Wolfgang. What they arrived on was great, you're no longer required to stop all game activity just to maintain mightiness. You can maintain it through standard active play. There was a little extra that got added, but then cut :\ It was a fun and challenging addition but was likely too difficult to balance in a way that was both meaningful yet not crippling. Not that I don't think there is still room for improvement (there always is) but as he sits Wolfgang is in a great spot. As an aside - Klei was not wrong that those who disliked the Wolfgang refresh were a vocal minority. Wolfgang's play rates didn't drop off at all post refresh. Still I feel the original design of Wolfgang was inherently flawed and I'm glad Klei honestly considered the feedback and made adjustments. Sometimes arguments sound hostile, but we need to argue about things and let our points contend or we'll never know which is right. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheggf Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 2 hours ago, Lurdiak said: it seems not one person is discussing what was previously the most pressing topic on the forums There has been a ton of discussion about the rework in the beta forums as it was going on. It seems like most people are happy with him now. 2 hours ago, Lurdiak said: Wimpy Wolfgang now does well in heat but mighty does worse Does mighty do worse in heat? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubious little Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Yes, very good cool character! 19 minutes ago, Cheggf said: Does mighty do worse in heat? Yeah, you're hotter when mighty and colder when wimpy. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheggf Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 16 minutes ago, dubious little said: Yeah, you're hotter when mighty and colder when wimpy. I know he has winter insulation when mighty and summer insulation when wimpy, the patch notes said so. But does he lose the insulation of the opposite type? The wiki is claiming that he gains 60 of both while mighty which isn't what the patch notes say. How much insulation does he even get? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubious little Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 6 minutes ago, Cheggf said: I know he has winter insulation when mighty and summer insulation when wimpy, the patch notes said so. But does he lose the insulation of the opposite type? The wiki is claiming that he gains 60 of both while mighty which isn't what the patch notes say. How much insulation does he even get? No idea! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloakingsumo198 Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Luckily in the beginning there was jumpstart in debates that lead to our long Wolfgang related campaign. But as time went on there was hopelessness in the silence, cries on deaf ears, attrition took most away. Time doesn't stop for anybody and as we lost numbers klei gave hope through responses and another beta for the ui that is currently taken most of the heat as Wolfgang was tweaked on the sideline. I don't think klei really wants to keep up this Wolfgang tweaking any further so any more suggestions are even less probable than when we started. Which is pretty sad since the downside they introduced got scrapped pretty fast, it wasn't a particularly good one... but it was more interesting than the faster mighty drain we got now. However mighty loss that couldn't be mitigated, animation stun-locks, with Wanda also existing. It was gonna be pretty hard for klei to make that feel "smooth" and "fun" without putting in more work. The increased speed to mighty loss is a quick and effective fix but I'm still saddened that the suggestions for mighty loss on hit weren't tried out. Seems they focused a lot more on the complaints since Wolfgang has more options to build mighty now and his side perks are stronger. He feels closer to his original design of constantly working to upkeep his physique. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallychina Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Wf is still annoying to play. They had the right idea when he was losing mightiness on hit but degenerated mighty much slower. Being mighty was no longer a chore, it was rewarding good play. The fuckup was he lost way too much mighty on hit and no armor, not even marble which was now his specialty, prevented mighty loss. Some tweaks to the mighty loss on hit were the only things needed, yet for some reason they messed that up and he is back to just being annoying and one dimensional. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guille6785 Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 people just moved on Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlVoid Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Wolfgang got some awesome changes. So there was nothing else to say. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannoli Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 After Klei forgot that stu##d idea (lose mighty when hit), and buff some things (gain might when fight, better gimmick), Wolf is ok now. And people who hate him and never play him stop talk bs. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mangrove Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 I have a few problems with current Wolfgang: Fighting in normal form to gain mightiness can have dire consequences with the animation stun happening when you change forms. What if you're close to being mighty, with low health and hunted by a couple of terrorbeaks or something, fighting them would stun you and potentially get you killed. You shouldn't feel punished for fighting. "Wait, I'm just gonna get mighty first real quick." The dumbbells and faster mightiness drain are not fun mechanics and he has become too much of a hassle for me to enjoy. I'm trying out Wanda now, she's not as fun as pre-rework Wolfgang, but she's better and more convenient I guess Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 4 minutes ago, Mangrove said: You shouldn't feel punished for fighting. you are being punished for not managing the meter, the only thing you have to worry about playing wolf Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mangrove Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said: you are being punished for not managing the meter, the only thing you have to worry about playing wolf Should we gain mightiness in normal form if we don't want to transform to mighty in the middle of a fight? Or rather, should we get stunned from transforming to mighty if we're fighting? It just doesn't feel thought through to me. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 1 minute ago, Mangrove said: Should we gain mightiness in normal form if we don't want to transform to mighty in the middle of a fight? Or rather, should we get stunned from transforming to mighty if we're fighting? It just doesn't feel thought through to me. you can control when to hit so the transformation frames happens during the "cool down" time of the enemy's atack (i was in this situation against a worm because i perform poorly so i needed to control when to hit to dont get punished) and in situation with enemies that dont let you transform safely (hounds, terrorbeaks and monkeys) is just your fault for not being mighty in a dangerous time is the only realistic downside this character has and offers a lot of upsides, i dont see how this niche situation is unfair when can easily controlled by the player Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mangrove Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said: is the only realistic downside this character has and offers a lot of upsides, i dont see how this niche situation is unfair when can easily controlled by the player I'm just peeved at a mechanic that's supposed to help me (gaining mightiness from fighting), punishing me instead by stunlocking me. It was introduced as a way to gain mightiness without the need of the dumbbell, but now you don't want to use it and you're back on the dumbbell again anyway. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 1 minute ago, Mangrove said: I'm just peeved at a mechanic that's supposed to help me (gaining mightiness from fighting), punishing me instead by stunlocking me. It was introduced as a way to gain mightiness without the need of the dumbbell, but now you don't want to use it and you're back on the dumbbell again anyway. it was introduced to reduce the use of dumbbells (but with the pasive drain you use them more outside of working and fighting...) and to keep the meter up not to completly ignore dumbbells. Why would you fight in normal form on purpose? you lose dps being stuck in a dangerous situation is the only real downside, easy to prevent, wolf has if you wanna use the fighting raising meter mechanic just wait until 74 points, let the enemy atack and keep atackng so you reach 75 while the enemy is loading their next atack, simple Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Safety Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Is mightiness really all that tough to keep up now? I honestly don't mind forgoing the walking cane and just walking with a dumbbell in hand in the normal day to day stuff, especially if I am expecting a fight like in the ruins. I think it's a fair trade to not get the bonus movement speed in exchange for essentially permanent double damage. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 1 minute ago, Dr. Safety said: Is mightiness really all that tough to keep up now? I honestly don't mind forgoing the walking cane and just walking with a dumbbell in hand in the normal day to day stuff, especially if I am expecting a fight like in the ruins. I think it's a fair trade to not get the bonus movement speed in exchange for essentially permanent double damage. only if you hunger is lower than 150 and you arent fighting or working in the ruins for example, you dont hve to worry about your hunger but walking or being in base, if you want to be mighty, you will need to eat or use the dumbbells more often Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mangrove Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 17 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said: Why would you fight in normal form on purpose? Why would you waste durability (edit: or your time) on the dumbbell if you can gain mightiness fighting? 17 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said: if you wanna use the fighting raising meter mechanic just wait until 74 points, let the enemy atack and keep atackng so you reach 75 while the enemy is loading their next atack, simple My problem is not that I don't know how to circumvent this problem, it's that I need to circumvent this problem. But if you enjoy it as a feature and not a problem that's ok. I just have an aversion to gameplay interruptions like the dumbbell Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 1 minute ago, Mangrove said: Why would you waste durability on the dumbbell if you can gain mightiness fighting? 2 or 3 (cant remember if i crafted a 3rd one) gembells used in +200 days Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannoli Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 33 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said: being stuck in a dangerous situation is the only real downside, easy to prevent, wolf has No, it is not. He suffers from a hard sanity drain. And in the middle of a boss or hound fight you can be insane and have to fight against shadows too, specially in the early 20 days. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 36 minutes ago, Cannoli said: No, it is not. He suffers from a hard sanity drain. And in the middle of a boss or hound fight you can be insane and have to fight against shadows too, specially in the early 20 days. But this things you just know playing him, of course is never your case. the sanity drain is negated by having a follower (mobs, critters and even kitcons which arent noisy) edit: even if you edit the message the imnature, as always, content of your comment still showing in the quote Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannoli Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said: the sanity drain is negated by having a follower Tks for the tip!! But I hate followers. I do prefer fight shadows. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138631-and-what-of-wolfgang/#findComment-1552683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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