Should Wanda be harder?

[abrocator]

Quote

Should Wanda get a nerf uuh I mean be harder?

We’ve discussed this at length already.

[Horsheen]

nah, not everyone that plays Wanda will be great at the game, some people just like her character. Making the character more difficult than she currently is just gates more people from playing her

[ALCRD]

20 hours ago, Dr.Medic said:

i have a weird bad feeling how this can end up again, not saying of course, but perhaps an opinion of mine, wanda realy dit not need the compat perks at all, i realy dont understand why she has those

What's "compat" ?

Is it like a another variety of kompot (aka. compote) ?

[Cheggf]

20 hours ago, Dr.Medic said:

i have a weird bad feeling how this can end up again, not saying of course, but perhaps an opinion of mine, wanda realy dit not need the compat perks at all, i realy dont understand why she has those

Without the combat perks Wanda would suck so bad. She would have literally nothing except a Rift Watch so she's a completely worthless character for at least until winter if not several years, and then she turns into Wilson with fast travel.

Even after she gets the watches with how much time you spend going to mactusk, fighting mactusk, then coming back and doing that over and over again unless you're going for day 10 million other characters would be saving so much more time compared to her.

[jan Mele]

38 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Without the combat perks Wanda would suck so bad. She would have literally nothing except a Rift Watch so she's a completely worthless character for at least until winter if not several years, and then she turns into Wilson with fast travel.

Even after she gets the watches with how much time you spend going to mactusk, fighting mactusk, then coming back and doing that over and over again unless you're going for day 10 million other characters would be saving so much more time compared to her.

Then get rid of the rift watch)0)

[abrocator]

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Even after she gets the watches with how much time you spend going to mactusk, fighting mactusk, then coming back and doing that over and over again unless you're going for day 10 million other characters would be saving so much more time compared to her.

She would become a year 5+ switch character.

[Cloakingsumo198]

Add more damage that ignores armor and boom Wanda harder without even touching her at all.

Taking anything away from her toolset just gimps her delicate balance.  

A weaker weapon means she's no longer on par with Wolfgang for damage. boring.

Removing watches makes her less special and doesn't help with balancing her. boring.

Second chance offers team support, backstep watch allows finesse in fights, rift/back trek watches save time for yourself and teammates by thinking ahead. 

Aside from backstep and stacking second chance watches none of her watches are really "spammable" in quick succession.  And the ones that can be spammed are quite "weak" but serve their purpose well when used correctly.

She's definitely not the hardest character, and she gets pretty boring really fast since she gets by pretty easily with her toolset alone.

Easily ignoring birdcage, crockpots, farms, and even drying racks enless you're creating sanity foods. She makes the game more of an arena sandbox than a survival one.

She can easily sustain herself by eating just about anything and you'll probably be doing so anyways both to age up for damage and to lower sanity to farm for fuel.

As long as you can survive 2 minutes without taking damage and aren't constantly teetering near age 77 you're likely to live quite long as Wanda.

Harsh nerfs would be like reducing the alarming clocks range, making the second chance heal slower, removing stacking second chance watches.

They also wouldn't make playing Wanda more fun either or change how she plays.

If nerfs actually did happen I hope more for something like equivalent exchange where a new tool or buff is added as well, for example if poison was added I hope Wanda also gets an instant heal watch added to combat it.

Wanda is pretty easy tho and quite boring. 

Limited healing isn't really difficult and it removed the whole tedium of farming for healing with waiting on a cool down it's more of cursed blessing really.

Extended melee range is quite the boon in a game where it's all about "entering" melee range for combat.

Also you don't need a network of rift watches having just one at your base is saves alot of time alone. It can be dismantled and linked to other locations like the statues and lunar islands some time before you begin working on those "side quests".

On console there isn't really fighting for "tusks" but on PC where the servers easily exceed 8-10 player counts I can see the issue, luckily the rift watch isn't nearly as necessary to be game changing as a 2nd second chance watch or having the alarming clock.

Tldr: Nerfs bad, new stuff good, Wanda not hard, Wanda good, Wanda boring, "Wanda moment", Wanda threads funny.

[LiamAshvinn001]

6 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Add more damage that ignores armor and boom Wanda harder without even touching her at all.

Taking anything away from her toolset just gimps her delicate balance.  

A weaker weapon means she's no longer on par with Wolfgang for damage. boring.

Removing watches makes her less special and doesn't help with balancing her. boring.

Second chance offers team support, backstep watch allows finesse in fights, rift/back trek watches save time for yourself and teammates by thinking ahead. 

Aside from backstep and stacking second chance watches none of her watches are really "spammable" in quick succession.  And the ones that can be spammed are quite "weak" but serve their purpose well when used correctly.

She's definitely not the hardest character, and she gets pretty boring really fast since she gets by pretty easily with her toolset alone.

Easily ignoring birdcage, crockpots, farms, and even drying racks enless you're creating sanity foods. She makes the game more of an arena sandbox than a survival one.

She can easily sustain herself by eating just about anything and you'll probably be doing so anyways both to age up for damage and to lower sanity to farm for fuel.

As long as you can survive 2 minutes without taking damage and aren't constantly teetering near age 77 you're likely to live quite long as Wanda.

Harsh nerfs would be like reducing the alarming clocks range, making the second chance heal slower, removing stacking second chance watches.

They also wouldn't make playing Wanda more fun either or change how she plays.

If nerfs actually did happen I hope more for something like equivalent exchange where a new tool or buff is added as well, for example if poison was added I hope Wanda also gets an instant heal watch added to combat it.

Wanda is pretty easy tho and quite boring. 

Limited healing isn't really difficult and it removed the whole tedium of farming for healing with waiting on a cool down it's more of cursed blessing really.

Extended melee range is quite the boon in a game where it's all about "entering" melee range for combat.

Also you don't need a network of rift watches having just one at your base is saves alot of time alone. It can be dismantled and linked to other locations like the statues and lunar islands some time before you begin working on those "side quests".

On console there isn't really fighting for "tusks" but on PC where the servers easily exceed 8-10 player counts I can see the issue, luckily the rift watch isn't nearly as necessary to be game changing as a 2nd second chance watch or having the alarming clock.

Tldr: Nerfs bad, new stuff good, Wanda not hard, Wanda good, Wanda boring, "Wanda moment", Wanda threads funny.

Ye I would actually just like if she took more damage and not touch the clocks at all. Her clocks make her special and I love it

[Pig Princess]

I would like Wanda be harder (requiring more skill, not more grindy), but it's not the only issue I have with her.

Firstly, her intended "role" as "glass cannon" doesn't feel glassy at all, mainly because:

a. Player can craft multiple ageless watches (btw those save a lot of time that otherwise would be spent on farming healing over and over again). Which means with good armor or other her unique tools Wanda can just bruteforce healing rate problem once and forever. Which feels weird for "glass cannon" type of character since it breaks "great reward for great risk" balance.

b. All the buffs that game literally throws at player to avoid damage, and buff to one of the best pieces of armor in particular. In combination with point a. it leads Wanda further away from "glass cannon" playstyle. I understand that people like safety net and such, but in that particular case it harms her design which is initially about risk (and avoiding damage).

Secondly, I don't like low variety of her playstyle. What I mean is that there is abysmal difference in playing in one and only intended way and doing something else. Rushing alarming clock and night armor, fighting bosses in old age with short-ranged infinite teleportation, fighting anything else in middle age is basically the only way player has to accept in order to play her somewhat efficiently. Otherwise player shoots themselves in the knees, in both of them to be exact. I like Don't Starve series for exactly the opposite: for variety of decisions I can make and choice being unclear, for different paths I can choose and profit/efficiency being comparable, for variety of skills I have to develop and use for different goals. This is what adds so much replayability for this game, and this is what Wanda lacks so hard. This is why I'm not interested in playing her, even though her design idea is so appealing to me. This is why in corresponding thread I proposed to change alarming clock and some other changes to create this variety. But I guess even DS/T playerbase in it's majority would rather have decisions made for them beforehand on design level, would rather not think in order to win.

On top of that her overall high level of power just worsens things, at least for me. I would prefer it if I needed to actually be better at kiting than any other character, if I needed to be really careful with health, if I had to think and come up with strategies to avoid damage myself with high planning and mechanical skill as a requirement, if I had to respect "glass cannon" gameplay and adapt accordingly to that. Because otherwise I see it as a free win and can't feel rewarded, therefore enjoy the character. Which is why in corresponding thread I proposed changes to her kit and, again, alarming clock, that would achieve exactly that - require me to think, plan, mastering kiting even more, etc., and in different situations can became buff or nerf compared to current state (with buff as a result of skill, and nerf as a result of lack of it).

So right now... Sorry Wanda, Warly in DST and Wilba in DS are still my best friends, closely followed by Wormwood and Wendy (even despite relatively high power level of the latter in some conditions).

[Tychos]

I don't think so. Take it from someone relatively garbage at the game, Wanda is difficult to get a hold of.

 

I believe true "balance"  is like this: Higher skill floor = Greater reward.  So when I say someone is overpowered, I actually mean too much benefit for too little skill or effort needed.

 

Examples: Wendy and WX are overpowered in my eyes. Abysmal downsides, game changing upsides that you need to do very little to achieve.

 

Meanwhile Wolfgang and Wanda are merely just "Powerful" characters. It takes some doing to get them to work, something that less skilled players (like me) actually can't pull off properly. At least not without a lot of practice and effort on that specific character.

[Dextops]

On 2/18/2022 at 5:21 AM, Tychos said:

Examples: Wendy and WX are overpowered in my eyes. Abysmal downsides, game changing upsides that you need to do very little to achieve.

 

Meanwhile Wolfgang and Wanda are merely just "Powerful" characters. It takes some doing to get them to work, something that less skilled players (like me) actually can't pull off properly. At least not without a lot of practice and effort on that specific character.

i'd disagree with your examples because wx is pretty meh since a simple stat boost isn't good a lot of the time and needs ruins to be visited to reach full potential which most noobs can't do while wolfgang has little to no skill floor to speak of but i do agree with your overall point 
if a character is good when you're skilled the character shouldn't be nerfed in the slightest since you're just nerfing skill 

[Cheggf]

On 2/18/2022 at 4:21 AM, Tychos said:

Examples: Wendy and WX are overpowered in my eyes. Abysmal downsides, game changing upsides that you need to do very little to achieve.

WX is the single worst character in the game. His only real perk is just a far worse version of Wormwood's (while Wormwood also has many other perks) and being able to eat food that's stale or spoiled and get a bit more stats from it is useful but food isn't hard to come by and other characters (like Wormwood) can just make more food, which is typically a lot more helpful.

On 2/18/2022 at 4:21 AM, Tychos said:

Meanwhile Wolfgang and Wanda are merely just "Powerful" characters. It takes some doing to get them to work, something that less skilled players (like me) actually can't pull off properly. At least not without a lot of practice and effort on that specific character.

How is gathering dozens of purple gems and living logs to charge yourself easy but gathering a few stones and boards this huge task that requires a lot of practice and effort?

[Yuuko]

I've gone over this before, and heard a lot of opinions on it...  I don't think she needs to be made "harder" really, b/c dst isn't a hard game.  There aren't any ways to really make it much harder in a way that wouldn't just feel unfair...  BUT they could definitely make her "less easy."  Reducing her whip damage at young and middle forms, and maybe make her whip specifically less effective against shadows.

[Tychos]

3 hours ago, Dextops said:

i'd disagree with your examples because wx is pretty meh since a simple stat boost isn't good a lot of the time and needs ruins to be visited to reach full potential which most noobs can't do while wolfgang has little to no skill floor to speak of but i do agree with your overall point 
if a character is good when you're skilled the character shouldn't be nerfed in the slightest since you're just nerfing skill 

You can just scan the world for chess biomes and tumbleweeds. As a noob myself that didn't know the ruins existed until recently, this is all I did and would have more than a few gears on hand to munch. I mean I'd still die and lose them all because of something stupid...

But yes, absolutely you get where I'm coming from! I don't think anyone that requires upkeep is skill

 

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

WX is the single worst character in the game. His only real perk is just a far worse version of Wormwood's (while Wormwood also has many other perks) and being able to eat food that's stale or spoiled and get a bit more stats from it is useful but food isn't hard to come by and other characters (like Wormwood) can just make more food, which is typically a lot more helpful.

How is gathering dozens of purple gems and living logs to charge yourself easy but gathering a few stones and boards this huge task that requires a lot of practice and effort?

You're saying his only real perk is overcharged and not his ability to boost his stats and instantly heal with gears? Hard disagree there. I personally don't even need "a dozen purple gems and living logs" because I don't need to be overcharged that often.  Having one on hand to use the ability is nice, but not necessary.

Meanwhile, in direct comparison: It's instant. A few stones and boards? Are you making a stone dumbbell?  You'll spend more time lifting than doing anything else. You also need boss statues (maybe giant vegetables?) To make the gym actually useful. And on top of all the initial material need and increased importance on keeping your hunger up: It's constant. If you don't stop and maintain it, you become weaker. You are at an active disadvantage unless you maintain your mighty physique meanwhile WX eats a gear and gets stronger without having constant upkeep.

[Cheggf]

45 minutes ago, Tychos said:

You're saying his only real perk is overcharged and not his ability to boost his stats and instantly heal with gears?

If you want high stats and healing pick Webber, Wigfrid, or Wortox. They'll be way more durable, have way more healing, and require way less effort to achieve the things they do. Plus actually having perks, and starting the game with said perks instead of needing to kill a bunch of clockworks.

[Tychos]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

If you want high stats and healing pick Webber, Wigfrid, or Wortox. They'll be way more durable, have way more healing, and require way less effort to achieve the things they do. Plus actually having perks, and starting the game with said perks instead of needing to kill a bunch of clockworks.

Webber doesn't have high stats (horrid sanity) nor does he start a game being able to heal. Wigfrid is of course basically flawless and I go back and forth on whether I'd call her OP for various reasons. And Wortox is indeed a good choice, though he also has to kill for his healing and like all three of these characters, has actual downsides and WX does not. I think you've missed the general point of what I'm trying to say and are instead just listing good characters for me to try.

[Cheggf]

19 minutes ago, Tychos said:

Webber doesn't have high stats (horrid sanity) nor does he start a game being able to heal. Wigfrid is of course basically flawless and I go back and forth on whether I'd call her OP for various reasons. And Wortox is indeed a good choice, though he also has to kill for his healing and like all three of these characters, has actual downsides and WX does not. I think you've missed the general point of what I'm trying to say and are instead just listing good characters for me to try.

Wortox has to kill butterflies to heal, so he's balanced. WX has to go into the ruins to kill clockworks to heal, so he's OP.

If getting so many gears to be able to use them as on demand healing is so easy for you why are you acting like killing butterflies and spiders are hard? And if having nothing to save time because your only perk is "oops I forgot to heal 10 times in a row"  isn't a problem why are you acting like lifting without boss statues is impossible because it takes a few seconds longer?

WX does have downsides, some of the worst in the game. Every time you switch characters or die you lose a lot of gears. That downside is way worse than Wigfrid's (you can literally just eat monster meat and the fighting to get it out heals the lost sanity and health from eating it) just like his apparent "upsides" are way worse. 

[Tychos]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Wortox has to kill butterflies to heal, so he's balanced. WX has to go into the ruins to kill clockworks to heal, so he's OP.

If getting so many gears to be able to use them as on demand healing is so easy for you why are you acting like killing butterflies and spiders are hard? And if having nothing to save time because your only perk is "oops I forgot to heal 10 times in a row"  isn't a problem why are you acting like lifting without boss statues is impossible because it takes a few seconds longer?

WX does have downsides, some of the worst in the game. Every time you switch characters or die you lose a lot of gears. That downside is way worse than Wigfrid's (you can literally just eat monster meat and the fighting to get it out heals the lost sanity and health from eating it) just like his apparent "upsides" are way worse. 

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Because I'm running out of ways to explain this to you when you take everything in a vacuum instead of all together and make off assumptions. If it makes you feel better, you may replace WX in my original post with whomever you personally feel is more appropriate. My point, which is about the topic and Wanda, remains the same.

[Cheggf]

3 minutes ago, Tychos said:

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Because I'm running out of ways to explain this to you when you take everything in a vacuum instead of all together and make off assumptions. If it makes you feel better, you may replace WX in my original post with whomever you personally feel is more appropriate. My point, which is about the topic and Wanda, remains the same.

So why spend several comments arguing that wx is super OP if it doesn't matter?

[Tychos]

Just now, Cheggf said:

So why spend several comments arguing that wx is super OP if it doesn't matter?

Because I was sharing my viewpoint on what an overpowered character is and how Wanda is not. If you disagree then that is fine, mentally replace him. It ultimately does not matter to my original point.

[Gashzer]

Wanda definitely doesn't need nerfed, her gear is very grindy early game to acquire. Which is fine for long play sessions on a private world but its not something I enjoy doing for shorter sessions on public servers.

Wanda isn't a good character to pick when joining late into a public server. Woodie, Wortox, Wigfrid, Wendy, Walter and Willow are all better than Wanda at surviving when joining mid winter, spring or summer. While also having access to most, if not all of their abilities much sooner.

Don't get me wrong, Wanda is a powerhouse when you get her watches crafted but sometimes you just want easy access perks of other characters without having to go through hassle of getting tier 2 magic + the gems, marble, thulecite fragments and nightmare fuel for her stuff. This is one of Wanda's major downsides for casual players or veterans who just want a casual dst session without the grind.

[goblinball]

I think Wanda is fine rn and is definitely pretty challenging, especially if you try to stay low health for the extra benefits. I remember back when Wanda first came out, I was exploring ruins with some friends and one of them was trying out Wanda. They died countless times, despite having thousands of hours sunk into DST. I think it’s important to remember that most of the people here on the forums have put way too much time into this game and don’t accurately reflect the, for lack of a better term, “skill level” of your average player who probably struggles greatly with Wanda (and like half the people here are probably way too overconfident and probably couldn’t do most of the things they claim are pathetically easy). 
Another important thing to remember is that we’ve all had time to learn how to adjust play styles to maximize Wanda efficiency or whatever. I remember when Wanda first came out, everyone was like “yooo this character is actually pretty tough dude that’s awesome thanks klei”, and now people are claiming Wanda is too easy? When you spend the time and energy to learn anything, it becomes easy. Everyone always points out how “surviving in DST isn’t a challenge anymore!” since we’ve learnt everything, but this applies to Wanda, too. No matter how challenging a character is, eventually people will learn how to play as them and they will be deemed as “too easy” or “not challenging”.

[LiamAshvinn001]

On 2/21/2022 at 9:15 AM, goblinball said:

I think Wanda is fine rn and is definitely pretty challenging, especially if you try to stay low health for the extra benefits. I remember back when Wanda first came out, I was exploring ruins with some friends and one of them was trying out Wanda. They died countless times, despite having thousands of hours sunk into DST. I think it’s important to remember that most of the people here on the forums have put way too much time into this game and don’t accurately reflect the, for lack of a better term, “skill level” of your average player who probably struggles greatly with Wanda (and like half the people here are probably way too overconfident and probably couldn’t do most of the things they claim are pathetically easy). 
Another important thing to remember is that we’ve all had time to learn how to adjust play styles to maximize Wanda efficiency or whatever. I remember when Wanda first came out, everyone was like “yooo this character is actually pretty tough dude that’s awesome thanks klei”, and now people are claiming Wanda is too easy? When you spend the time and energy to learn anything, it becomes easy. Everyone always points out how “surviving in DST isn’t a challenge anymore!” since we’ve learnt everything, but this applies to Wanda, too. No matter how challenging a character is, eventually people will learn how to play as them and they will be deemed as “too easy” or “not challenging”.

Hmm ok thanks, thats something ive never really thought of

 

EDIT: Im not being sarcastic