What are some characters (In your opinion) that need to be buffed/nerfed?

[Mike23Ua]

38 minutes ago, ethannnnnnn said:

How do you not understand that it's probably healthy to concern ourselves with character balance for the sake of game longevity?

Characters who are vastly stronger than others for no reason should be nerfed because it detracts from the overall gameplay if there are other characters that just do everything better. That's why you have people swapping just for wicker books or gemerators. It's poor design, and boring.

Characters who are vastly weaker than others for no reason are usually tedious, unfun, and painful to play. Fixing up even a few parts of their kit makes a world of a difference in the quality of gameplay.

Not to mention the meta is constantly changing. Almost every time we get an update the meta changes significantly.

There’s actually no such thing as “Meta” in a sandbox game.. and I have this funny feeling that very soon Klei is going to reinforce that.. they promised me randomly generated Worlds, now it’s time for them to make my gameplay as Unpredictable as Spelunky 2.

Where’s the Meta go when the rule book is thrown out the Window? I don’t think Klei should continuously try to balance their game either Nerf this, Buff that- Anyone who plays Smite, Apex Legends, Battlefield, Call of Duty etc know the toil that takes on both the developers AND the players.

Its a waste of development time and resources that could have been better spent adding new content into the game.

For example: I feel Wanda has it mostly “Easy” in DST despite her being a so called “Glass-Canon” but since she can’t heal if she’s taking damage over time then obviously adding more enemies capable of inflicting Damage Over Time would Hinder Wanda’s healing Process.

Wendy? Abigail is designed to be the single best thing in the game to fight large “groups” of mobs, she literally gets extra shield protection the more enemies are attacking her at once.. so any mobs that DONT attack in large groups and can down Abigail in 1 or 2 hits will also make things more difficult for Wendy players.

Direct Nerfs/Buffs to characters are freaking boring.. but adding new content to the game that counters their strengths… now that’s something I’d love to see.

Wolfgang deals 2x damage… but he also has a quote “Myraid of phobias” so what if Wolfgang was cowardly around some new particularly scary to him mob types and those mobs would actually be easier to handle as Wilson or Whatever?

Woodie and Willow both have a difficult time inside Moonstorms that’s a “nerf” to them without being a direct “nerf to them”

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, ethannnnnnn said:

How do you not understand that it's probably healthy to concern ourselves with character balance for the sake of game longevity?

Characters who are vastly stronger than others for no reason should be nerfed because it detracts from the overall gameplay if there are other characters that just do everything better. That's why you have people swapping just for wicker books or gemerators. It's poor design, and boring.

Characters who are vastly weaker than others for no reason are usually tedious, unfun, and painful to play. Fixing up even a few parts of their kit makes a world of a difference in the quality of gameplay.

Not to mention the meta is constantly changing. Almost every time we get an update the meta changes significantly.

is a sand box survival game. If klei makes all character balanced where will be the fun of picking different characters?

maybe for you is tedious to pick willow, wes or wilson but for others that adds a lot of fun to the game. Moba "balance" (or buff them to sell skins to noobs who only have fun with the op character of the month thinking they win because they are so pr0) their characters because is a PVP and the fights should be fair. Here we adapt the difficulty with the characters so i can pick wes and my friend can pick wendy and both have fun, me suffering and he being afk

swapping is only a problem if you are more focused about what other people do than what you can do to have fun. I dont use portal shenanigans and you wont see me complaining, why? because im more worried about how to keep having fun with the game than being disturbed because people wanna face roll or experiment with the tools they have  

 

edit: wow and i didn't read the part about "meta". There are that much paths to beat the game that you cant really talk about meta and for some of us is boring to follow the most successful and safe strategies 

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, ethannnnnnn said:

How do you not understand that it's probably healthy to concern ourselves with character balance for the sake of game longevity?

Characters who are vastly stronger than others for no reason should be nerfed because it detracts from the overall gameplay if there are other characters that just do everything better.

I agree that character balance is important, but you're vastly exaggerating the imbalances the characters have. There's only one character who comes anywhere close to "do[ing] everything better", and every single character in the entire game has a niche. You might not like some niches, like Wilson's niche of being the best at teaching you how to play the game, but they all have a useful niche.

2 hours ago, ethannnnnnn said:

That's why you have people swapping just for wicker books or gemerators. It's poor design, and boring.

If Wickerbottom's books and Winona's catapults really were just doing everything better, why would anyone swap to those characters? Why wouldn't they start as them and always play them? You aren't complaining about character imbalance here, you're complaining about the Celestial Portal allowing you to get the benefits of every character.

[abrocator]

The Celestial Portal reminds me of when DS introduced the possibility of joining all three worlds (RoG, Hamlet, Shipwrecked).  I wouldn’t be surprised if people complained that it was “imbalanced” to hop between all three worlds (nooo you shouldn’t get easy pig skin from Hamlet if you started in Shipwrecked!!).

I just appreciate how both the world linking and the Celestial Portal have opened up the respective games.

[planetearth]

1 hour ago, abrocator said:

The Celestial Portal reminds me of when DS introduced the possibility of joining all three worlds (RoG, Hamlet, Shipwrecked).  I wouldn’t be surprised if people complained that it was “imbalanced” to hop between all three worlds (nooo you shouldn’t get easy pig skin from Hamlet if you started in Shipwrecked!!).

I just appreciate how both the world linking and the Celestial Portal have opened up the respective games.

It was pretty difficult to get out of Hamlet iirc. And if you went to Hamlet past day 30 you aporkalysped. Also, some of us are dumb. I didn't realize the skin from the bats counted as pig skin for crafting so I constantly had the guards chasing me for committing murder XD

[NightfallsCurse]

On 1/16/2022 at 12:27 AM, lv746591263 said:

Stand alone games are not competitive games. Why do you always want to weaken rather than update more interesting content?

because some characters break the game, it ruins the entire purpose of the game. I'm only throwing this out just to throw it out, but Skill is its own thing, Overpowered things are another.
When playing an OP character and you quote on quote "finish" the game early, things get repetitive already.

No, I do not always want to weaken this game like you said, sure, another embarrassing forums story is when I had my old username and stated my opinion on how many dishes were useless 

[Mike23Ua]

34 minutes ago, NightfallsCurse said:

because some characters break the game, it ruins the entire purpose of the game. I'm only throwing this out just to throw it out, but Skill is its own thing, Overpowered things are another.
When playing an OP character and you quote on quote "finish" the game early, things get repetitive already.

No, I do not always want to weaken this game like you said, sure, another embarrassing forums story is when I had my old username and stated my opinion on how many dishes were useless 

I mean I don’t think having a few characters who are “better” then others will do anything except make people who want the most optimal choice gravitate towards the most optimal choice (you wouldn’t pick Wes to fight a boss with unless you just wanted to suffer/wanted extra challenge because your too good..) instead the Optimal choices depending on the boss: would be Wolfgang, Wanda & Wendy.

When there’s a optimal choice it also rules out lower end choices for people looking for the optimal choice, for example- someone may be absolutely in love with Wes for his skins but would they really want to pick him during a large boss fight?

Now with all this said: NOTHING Broke the game quite like Year of the Beefalo… because Klei allowed people to take 1000hp Passive regenerating furry companions into areas of the game they “Originally” weren’t ever programmed to be able to go into (Caves, on Boats, Lunar Island & any future areas Klei may add)

You may be asking “Why does that Matter?” And I will tell you if klei designs let’s just say Depth Worm wave attacks in a cave to be challenging to the player and the cast of playable characters when on foot.. but did NOT Readjust this content to have MORE Depth-Worms spawn when everyone’s riding around on 1000 hp beasts, then even though DST is NOT an RPG you still technically “Out-Level” the level of the Content zone you are in.

Its this same #Beefalo Meta that makes me find slightly broken character choices as “Acceptable”

Wanda won’t take aging damage when being hit on a Beefalo (unless it’s a mob that targets the rider and not the Mount..) so even Wanda’s downsides of getting Hit aging her do not apply to the fuzzy 1000hp battle mount.

I feel like there’s room to redesign content to go hand in hand with the new Day 1 Beefalos we can have.. maybe even some non-boss but “Mini-Boss” type “Elite Mobs” that when fought on a Beefalo would just be mobs designed to fight with a Beefalo, but when fought on foot would prove more difficult maybe because you can’t out run their attacks.. maybe they deal 300hp in one hit (R.I.P Abigail in 2 hits..) my point is- There’s room to rebalance content based on the fuzzy passive hp regenerating companions.

Im also of the mindset that the people who wanted Wolfgang Nerfed were only considering Pre-YoTB Wolfgang.. Because With Day 1 1000hp mounts You get extra speed, extra armor, and Darksword level damage just by dinging a little bell by its ear and slapping a saddle on its back.

[ethannnnnnn]

9 hours ago, Cheggf said:

If Wickerbottom's books and Winona's catapults really were just doing everything better, why would anyone swap to those characters? Why wouldn't they start as them and always play them? You aren't complaining about character imbalance here, you're complaining about the Celestial Portal allowing you to get the benefits of every character.

I think you misunderstood the point there. My point was that Wicker and Winona are underpowered or uninteresting -- or both. E.g. people find no reason to play them other than for their character-specific tools.

I've always loved the celestial portal. I think it's clear though that most people would rather play Wendy for the majority of their world for obvious reasons. Making other characters interesting or allowing them to provide overall useful niches that others do not is what is important to me. So a character like Walter is nearly useless. Or Wurt who is so close to being distinct from the cast but is missing key changes. Or WX who isn't really special in any way.

There's a reason we're getting character refreshes, so I'm not sure why my point is being contested. Klei is aiming to balance their characters and make them more appealing overall.

 

[Cheggf]

3 hours ago, ethannnnnnn said:

I think you misunderstood the point there. My point was that Wicker and Winona are underpowered or uninteresting -- or both. E.g. people find no reason to play them other than for their character-specific tools.

I've always loved the celestial portal. I think it's clear though that most people would rather play Wendy for the majority of their world for obvious reasons. Making other characters interesting or allowing them to provide overall useful niches that others do not is what is important to me. So a character like Walter is nearly useless. Or Wurt who is so close to being distinct from the cast but is missing key changes. Or WX who isn't really special in any way.

There's a reason we're getting character refreshes, so I'm not sure why my point is being contested. Klei is aiming to balance their characters and make them more appealing overall.

 

You will never be happy with the characters if you don't actually care about how strong or fun they are and exclusively care about what the most efficient way to play is. There will always be a best and as long as the portal exists, which you say you like but everything you complain about is caused by the portal, the characters with long lasting effects will always be "better" than the characters with bursts of power.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

16 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

You will never be happy with the characters if you don't actually care about how strong or fun they are and exclusively care about what the most efficient way to play is. There will always be a best and as long as the portal exists, which you say you like but everything you complain about is caused by the portal, the characters with long lasting effects will always be "better" than the characters with bursts of power.

he is right about wicker and winona not being interesting and i dont think is caused by the portal but by their "wilson like" gameplay

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

he is right about wicker and winona not being interesting and i dont think is caused by the portal but by their "wilson like" gameplay

I think Winona is pretty boring, but Wickerbottom is alright. Not as fun as someone like Warly but she's pretty good.

Either way he's saying they're underpowered and need to be buffed. People only pick them so that they can use their character specific abilities (as if that's a bad thing or exclusive to them instead of literally everyone). People swapping to them to use their abilities shows that they clearly aren't weak or nobody would be swapping to them.

[JustExo]

I think a lot of characters just need to me made more interesting rather than buffed. Webber is a character who I think would be more interesting if you had the option to command spiders like an RTS game, while needing a more interesting downside than "these few mobs are hostile towards you"

Winona is a character I think just needs: more structures, and more perks that make those structures even more useful for her, as well as a downside that has a bigger impact on her gameplay

I think a big issue I have is with aspects of the character's designs being what I'd say is improved, rather than just be buffed or nerfed

[Cloakingsumo198]

Willow should be able to use big Bernie as a 2000 HP mount, he doesn't have his own hp Regen, and would still lose durability by holding him or taking hits as small bernie and to balance him out they'll have to make him slower when mounted.

Spoiler

It would turn him into a cross between woby and Abigail one is used entirely for traversal and the other for combat. Bernie will have abit of both whilst being his own thing and not detracting from either.

Bernie will act more like a single damage tank mount, he could still be left uncontrolled to act more like distraction/assist separate from the player but mounting would make willow safer whilst giving more control of Bernie and the only time Bernie could assist is still when willow is insane so less on demand.

I can't decide whether if willow should be dropped when her sanity reaches above big Bernie's threshold or if Bernie should wait for willow to dismount first.

Spoiler

W̶i̶l̶l̶o̶w̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶l̶o̶w̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶o̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶s̶h̶e̶ ̶d̶i̶e̶s̶

 

[Mysterious box]

6 hours ago, JustExo said:

I think a lot of characters just need to me made more interesting rather than buffed. Webber is a character who I think would be more interesting if you had the option to command spiders like an RTS game, while needing a more interesting downside than "these few mobs are hostile towards you"

Webber's whistle already gives him much better control over his spiders than other followers but I do agree he needs a more impactful downside.

On a different note Wurt just needs a overhaul considering her mechanics are designed in a way that designed in a way that intentionally frustrates with very little pay off or team synergy.

[abrocator]

Yeah, Webber seems to have great control over his minions.  Wurt’s control is pretty primitive by comparison.

What really grinds my fishbones about Wurt though is that my former followers have to practically be guided back to their homes, or else they will unload in the middle of their trek and all of a sudden I have an effectively vacant merm home.  So you have to build homes all over the map if you want to avoid that downside (really a bug).  But flortifications are so expensive…

[JustExo]

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Webber's whistle already gives him much better control over his spiders than other followers but I do agree he needs a more impactful downside.

My issue with Webber is his followers, in comparison to other characters/followers just don't have anything particularly special about the way he uses them, nor do they really provide any meaningful assistance, which can be alleviated through Webber having more coordination on what his followers are doing

[Mysterious box]

26 minutes ago, JustExo said:

My issue with Webber is his followers, in comparison to other characters/followers just don't have anything particularly special about the way he uses them, nor do they really provide any meaningful assistance, which can be alleviated through Webber having more coordination on what his followers are doing

They provide healing, ocean and ranged combat while also being the only followers you can wake up and deaggro on command they are the most versatile combat focused followers the game has.

[JustExo]

36 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

They provide healing, ocean and ranged combat while also being the only followers you can wake up and deaggro on command they are the most versatile combat focused followers the game has.

Healing isn't really an issue since you can just make healing food with more ease than you would getting a bunch of healing spiders, the ocean combat is incredibly limited, often just being Crab King or a rock jaw, and their ranged combat is inconsistent since you can't do things like tell the spiders to back away while you draw aggro. 

Overall in comparison to other followers like Merms who deal more damage, as well as being able to chop and mine, Abigail who can clear hordes of small enemies, and Bernie whose basically just a mini boss

Webber's pretty underwhelming in his spider followers, so having more control would be a good way to keep him relevant when being compared to others

[Mysterious box]

19 minutes ago, JustExo said:

Overall in comparison to other followers like Merms who deal more damage, as well as being able to chop and mine, Abigail who can clear hordes of small enemies, and Bernie whose basically just a mini boss

Merms don't deal much damage unless your counting under the kings effect who anchors you on top of being needless resource dump outside of boss fights on and even then spiders can assist in more boss fights than merms due to being more durable with their healing and high hp variants. On top of that pigs and bearager harvest wood just fine and in most cases the time spent going to get merms for mining isn't worth it and bunnymen surpass them in dps even in their guardian forms.

Bernie only really has being able to fighting shadows and insta heals from sewing kits which allows him to keep hoping back into fights so long as you have the materials on spiders which isn't alot.

Then Abigial does excel in hordes but spiders can fight hordes and solo higher hp targets with usually no recovery downtime

32 minutes ago, JustExo said:

Healing isn't really an issue since you can just make healing food with more ease than you would getting a bunch of healing spiders, the ocean combat is incredibly limited, often just being Crab King or a rock jaw, and their ranged combat is inconsistent since you can't do things like tell the spiders to back away while you draw aggro.

This still means spiders are invincible followers outside of situations where your fighting something with high dps and that spiders patch themselves up quick meaning out of any follower they'll get the most use out of armor.

And you can however tell spiders to stop fighting which will pull aggro to you in most cases when you attack.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

48 minutes ago, JustExo said:

Healing isn't really an issue since you can just make healing food

yes but the point is that he doesnt need to waste time making that healing food plus his spiders, as said above, cant die vs most enemies

49 minutes ago, JustExo said:

the ocean combat is incredibly limited

wip

49 minutes ago, JustExo said:

often just being Crab King or a rock jaw

often being malbatross since some players like to spend time in the ocean or farming, his peak is a great item to be farmed

50 minutes ago, JustExo said:

and their ranged combat is inconsistent since you can't do things like tell the spiders to back away while you draw aggro. 

as far as i know you can with his whistle

52 minutes ago, JustExo said:

Overall in comparison to other followers like Merms who deal more damage,

they deal more damage per hit but with weeber you get more dps and sustain

52 minutes ago, JustExo said:

Abigail who can clear hordes of small enemies

abi is too strong, not every character should have that easy access to big powers plus he can achieve more dps and sustain that abigail

54 minutes ago, JustExo said:

and Bernie whose basically just a mini boss

are you srly comparing a spider army with a low dps mob with just 1000hp while spiders can tank ad infinitum?

54 minutes ago, JustExo said:

Webber's pretty underwhelming in his spider followers, so having more control would be a good way to keep him relevant when being compared to others

he already has a lot of control, this isnt starcraft and take into account that console players doesnt have 82497389 keys and, honestly, why would you need that much control? by just making them atack and deaggro is enough. DST doesnt have a complex strategic combat

underwhelming maybe for you, as i see him is one of the characters with the higher DPS potential at a low cost plus all his confortable survival perks

[JustExo]

14 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

he already has a lot of control, this isnt starcraft and take into account that console players doesnt have 82497389 keys and, honestly, why would you need that much control? by just making them atack and deaggro is enough. DST doesnt have a complex strategic combat

underwhelming maybe for you, as i see him is one of the characters with the higher DPS potential at a low cost plus all his confortable survival perks

I think as the game goes on, the alternative options of followers become a lot more favorable since the resources required to maintain those are less than what spiders cost, and you get more out of them
Giving webber that much control over spiders would just be fun for the character imo, it's what I'd change with him to make him more enjoyable for me

 

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, JustExo said:

I think as the game goes on, the alternative options of followers become a lot more favorable since the resources required to maintain those are less than what spiders cost, and you get more out of them
Giving webber that much control over spiders would just be fun for the character imo, it's what I'd change with him to make him more enjoyable for me

 

What cost are you talking about? Spiders are a one time cost till death most others require constant payments or restoration.

Actually to add to this as the game goes on resource gathering followers become less useful due to the existence of bearager while spiders combat ability can assist you into the end game.

[JustExo]

23 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

What cost are you talking about? Spiders are a one time cost till death most others require constant payments or restoration.

Actually to add to this as the game goes on resource gathering followers become less useful due to the existence of bearager while spiders combat ability can assist you into the end game.

The cost of recruiting a large quantity of spiders is more than obtaining things like rock fruit for merms to me
Bearger is also only available for half of the seasons, so ultimately having an alternative to gethering said resources is always nice, especially when you need wood and rocks for things like megabasing

 

[Mysterious box]

34 minutes ago, JustExo said:

The cost of recruiting a large quantity of spiders is more than obtaining things like rock fruit for merms to me
Bearger is also only available for half of the seasons, so ultimately having an alternative to gethering said resources is always nice, especially when you need wood and rocks for things like megabasing

 

You can use baskets to get high tier spiders for cheap and relocating merm homes is very expensive even more so if they get lost. Also bearger gives you a year's worth of resources in a day so there's no competition and if we're just talking about variety well can use pigs for wood using the one man band.

[Pinkamena11FazP]

Rant warning ahead about why I picked Wes:

Spoiler

I chose Wes because his 'update' was a literal JOKE, all the constant jokes about nerfing wes came 'true', slapping him with 75 of everything doesn't fix the problem Wes has it just makes him more difficult and unfair to play, his only place still is those servers where they can get food easily. Yes, the hunger goes down slower but it seems just a slap for him being skinny/underweight. Take Wendy's damage rate to him and fix the whole "wes is unlucky so he gets garbage chopping and gets zapped more than a LIGHTING ROD". I made a form a long time ago talking about cool ideas with Wes being more of a circus like clown as I thought it sorta fit him a bit, even his clown skin sorta would FIT, but the whole idea was that he could be launched into a cannon like a bullet at bosses to stun them for a temporary amount of time before they regain their attack. But if Wes isn't wearing a helmet he just full speeds his way and SPLAT and dies after hitting a boss. Or what about a balloon boat that only has 1 HP and pops if you hit something? You can make Wes a fun character and still a bit hard without it feeling like you slapped every bad thing onto him because he's a 'Hard Mode" character.

Also I pick Woodie because they got rid of the sanity he gets from planting trees and nerfing the beaver being able to make treegaurds appear, I am still salty about this.