The "hate" against the game vs. the frustration against Wolfgang's dumbbells

[Sweaper]

18 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Gembell is cheap, lasts 11 days, only have to use it for 10-esh secs every 6.5mins to maintain double damage + increased working speed, why are people so against something so op which barely takes up any time?

Said this before, i would rather watch wolfgang lift a dumbell for 10secs a day than have to bother with spamming meatballs on crockpots, now i survive on cooked monster meat and healing salves for bosses, not a crockpot in sight.

If i wanted to be forced to cook with a crockpot, i would play warly.

Didn't people use to rush bosses/ruins without spamming meatballs before the rework? Meat, cooked monster meat, shrooms, berries, butterflies and lichen all there to be consumed to get some bonus movement speed. Farming healing salves for bosses is too slow in the early game if you consider gland's drop rate.

[Yuuko]

28 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Gembell is cheap, lasts 11 days, only have to use it for 10-esh secs every 6.5mins to maintain double damage + increased working speed, why are people so against something so op which barely takes up any time?

I did several comparisons of the time spent getting and maintaining mighty compared to the time actually saved (less hits in fight, less chops / mining) and found it was largely a net neutral investment, but often worse than simply playing Wilson.  10 seconds sounds so quick, except its 10 seconds every single in game day, and it never stops or gets less.  You're spending a pretty significant amount of time, over time, just standing there lifting weights.  How much time do you actually save if its just 1 hit less on a hound, or 2 swings less on mining a boulder?  The reality is you *must* invest in a gym before you have a chance to even break even.

The worst part is maintaining mighty is the least efficient way you can play Wolfgang.  Any time you pass a day without using mighty, a day where you're just running around, crafting, whatever is a day you lost on your investment.  Add up a few days and its cheaper and less time consuming to drop to wimpy.  That's where the trap is - drop to Wimpy, a hound wave comes in, how long does it take you to get mighty vs fight off the hound wave wimpy?  How fast does it take to get mighty vs mining a few boulders, or chopping trees wimpy?

Quote

Said this before, i would rather watch wolfgang lift a dumbell for 10secs a day than have to bother with spamming meatballs on crockpots, now i survive on cooked monster meat and healing salves for bosses, not a crockpot in sight.

If i wanted to be forced to cook with a crockpot, i would play warly.

Wolfgang didn't have a reason to touch crock pots before - especially with RWYS.  Tomato and potato are common, and super easy to farm en mas.  They provide both great hunger values and healing.  Old Wolf was even better for this since you could drop to Wimpy before spamming glands and then eat back up to mighty and move on.

15 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I wanted to give this a word of support but while I do support this all I was thinking is maybe this will make people understand just how good Warly is.

I've been playing Warly quite a bit lately - he is good, I'm loving it.

[Gashzer]

Just now, Shosuko said:

Wolfgang didn't have a reason to touch crock pots before - especially with RWYS.  Tomato and potato are common, and super easy to farm en mas.  They provide both great hunger values and healing.

Farming takes up even more time than crockpots + gembells combined lol

6 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

Didn't people use to rush bosses/ruins without spamming meatballs before the rework? Meat, cooked monster meat, shrooms, berries, butterflies and lichen all there to be consumed to get some bonus movement speed. Farming healing salves for bosses is too slow in the early game if you consider gland's drop rate.

Ruins rushing is much nicer now, don't have to race to the next fight incase your food starts to run out due to the 2-3x hunger drain. Prototype a gym, make it before you enter a clockwork zone, usually there is a safe bit after monkeys before broken zone, great place to act as a wee ruins base. Boom purple gems for gembells for the rest of your playthrough. No more gyms needed ever.

[Sweaper]

5 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Farming takes up even more time than crockpots + gembells combined lol

Ruins rushing is much nicer now, don't have to race to the next fight incase your food starts to run out due to the 2-3x hunger drain. Prototype a gym, make it before you enter a clockwork zone, usually there is a safe bit after monkeys before broken zone, great place to act as a wee ruins base. Boom purple gems for gembells for the rest of your playthrough. No more gyms needed ever.

It's safer, but slower

[ArubaroBeefalo]

8 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

and the fact you lose Mighty while fighting, more-so boss fighting

the fun is taking care of the meter and hunger level...

 

10 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Said durability issue transforms Wolf in a Gem/Gold and Stone "eater" on top of higher food intake during "exercise".

"on top" no, "or". You waste purple gems/gold or you waste food. Using dumbbells doesnt increase your hunger rate that is something the gym does but the gym doesnt waste materials after being placed

 

12 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

I had to go a bit further from fight during Toad, CK and CC to do the idle animation because I've fallen out of Mighty during mid-fight - quite the let-down.

is just a couple of seconds unless you use the goldbell . Which i dont understand why is so bad to keep mighty, it only makes it tedious for players that cant affort purple gems

throwing the gem should waste less durability plus being affected by wolf damage, with that we could increase the meter in a funnier way during fights. Also i would like if the dumbbells had the same keys as the lazy explorer: F for melee, right click to throw

[Yuuko]

9 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Farming takes up even more time than crockpots + gembells combined lol

All I can say is obviously you have your own opinion of how you want to play, whether its efficient or not.  So enjoy wasting time pumping weights, and eating cooked monster meat and spamming glands for heals.  If you like it, do it I guess.

But if you wanna come talk about it being a good play style XD maybe think about it first.

Doing potato / tomato farm is pretty much zero maintenance.  Covers food and healing ez.

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, Sweaper said:

It's safer, but slower

Yes which is better for the majority of the dst player base.

[Sweaper]

I don't know, are the majority of player base doing ruins on day 10 or less? If not then being safer won't matter considering they can over prepare to make Wes pretty safe down there too.

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, Shosuko said:

All I can say is obviously you have your own opinion of how you want to play, whether its efficient or not.  So enjoy wasting time pumping weights, and eating cooked monster meat and spamming glands for heals.  If you like it, do it I guess.

But if you wanna come talk about it being a good play style XD maybe think about it first.

Waste time pumping weights? it takes 10secs every day.

Oh god the horror of waiting 10 WHOLE SECONDS! the lack of efficiency is gonna make my brain explode hahahah

Healing salves don't spoil and with wolfgangs double damage and kiting boost with marble suits, you won't need many anyway for boss fights lol

3 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

I don't know, are the majority of player base doing ruins on day 10 or less? If not then being safer won't matter considering they can over prepare to make Wes pretty safe down there too.

A better balance is struck now, still can ruin rush faster than most characters with a much better quality of life while down there compared with old wolfgang.

[Cloakingsumo198]

It's not just 10 seconds considering that's only If you workout as soon as you hit 75 mighty.

Most of the time you will let the mighty meter drain below 75 and using the gembell under 75 is a big waste of it's durability.

You also aren't including going mighty on an emptier stomach or the increased mighty drain from being low on hunger which happens alot when you aren't being active instead doing mundane things like building/organizing.

It's not just 10 seconds, it could be more than 10 seconds, it's also 10 seconds standing completely still during inopportune times.  Full moon about to start, being chased, exploring, hound wave, nightmare phases, assisting other players, about to leave camp. 

It's the fact it's inevitable...... With no way around except those constant 10 seconds and that's even if you are constantly on it.

[Sweaper]

8 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Waste time pumping weights? it takes 10secs every day.

Oh god the horror of waiting 10 WHOLE SECONDS! the lack of efficiency is gonna make my brain explode hahahah

Healing salves don't spoil and with wolfgangs double damage and kiting boost with marble suits, you won't need many anyway for boss fights lol

A better balance is struck now, still can ruin rush faster than most characters with a much better quality of life while down there compared with old wolfgang.

Going back and forth to the gym while doing ruins the first time isn't that great when playing together on a public server

[Gashzer]

Just now, Sweaper said:

Going back and forth to the gym while doing ruins the first time isn't that great when playing together on a public server

Dig graves at graveyard, prototype gembell before you go down there. Problem solved.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Gashzer said:

Dig graves at graveyard, prototype gembell before you go down there. Problem solved.

Gonna have to pry them from the Wanda's and Walter's first.

[Cloakingsumo198]

3 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Dig graves at graveyard, prototype gembell before you go down there. Problem solved.

6 blue gems and random trinkets. Thank you internet man for solving all problems with your infinite wisdom. 

[MondayNight]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the fun is taking care of the meter and hunger level...

If your idea of fun is "go somewhere a bit far, watch an idle animation", then I guess to each their own.

 

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

"on top" no, "or". You waste purple gems/gold or you waste food. Using dumbbells doesnt increase your hunger rate that is something the gym does but the gym doesnt waste materials after being placed

You either waste Gems/Gold and Rocks, or you waste Food + materials for Gyms build all over the map. In past with food.. you just picked it up. That was it. Clean and neat. Now are extra-steps, on top of watching idle animations. Idle animation watching, even for 1s (when it can be up to 1.5 minutes, which is purely-and-simply ridiculous), is still idle animation watching. On-and-on-and-on. "Stop! Is idle animation time", all time. Bad design at its finest.

 

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

is just a couple of seconds unless you use the goldbell . Which i dont understand why is so bad to keep mighty, it only makes it tedious for players that cant affort purple gems

throwing the gem should waste less durability plus being affected by wolf damage, with that we could increase the meter in a funnier way during fights. Also i would like if the dumbbells had the same keys as the lazy explorer: F for melee, right click to throw

"Just a couple of seconds" here, "just a couple of seconds" there, "just a couple of seconds" everywhere. Idle times "Wolf game-play" summarized. Past character reworks (Wendy, Wigfrid) had new mechanic elements that could be ignored and no heavy penalty, or lack of fun would come front-and-center. But it seems Wolf players have to "suffer" through tedious and gimmicky new play-style just because. Mandatory.

Also I don't get this "throwing Dumb-bells" fetishist approach: how is that practical during fights? If you gain even 2x mightiness related to 1 normal flex via throwing them is not only negligible, but you most likely lost for the duration of that fight access to said Bells too, since you either hit a Pig/Spider/Bunny and aggroed all its peers on you and now need to flee, or hit a boss and to recuperate the Gembell you will take a hit/dmg from respective boss, get out of kiting rhythm and/or have no meaningful impact whatsoever in relation to just go further and flex that idle animation .. again. Why? Why is so hard, more-so as a non-main Wolfgang, to accept best course of action in this case is: double the Dumb-bells durability across the board and maintain Might during fight as you do when carrying heavy objects?!

[Hornete]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Gonna have to pry them from the Wanda's and Walter's first.

You say that like Walter's actually use slowdown rounds in the first place, xD

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Hornete said:

You say that like Walter's actually use slowdown rounds in the first place, xD

Atleast the people I play with do their quite useful.

[Gashzer]

9 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

It's not just 10 seconds considering that's only If you workout as soon as you hit 75 mighty.

Most of the time you will let the mighty meter drain below 75 and using the gembell under 75 is a big waste of it's durability.

You also aren't including going mighty on an emptier stomach or the increased mighty drain from being low on hunger which happens alot when you aren't being active instead doing mundane things like building/organizing.

It's not just 10 seconds, it could be more than 10 seconds, it's also 10 seconds standing completely still during inopportune times.  Full moon about to start, being chased, exploring, hound wave, nightmare phases, assisting other players, about to leave camp. 

It's the fact it's inevitable...... With no way around except those constant 10 seconds and that's even if you are constantly on it.

Again gembell lasts for 11 days of use, that is 11 days of constant mightiness.

There is no reason not to be mighty all the time, increased season protection, piggybag reduced speed is removed and increased work speed. All great outside of combat.

Just work out 3secs before you do something dangerous. Same as you would take 2secs to eat a meatball with old wolfgang.

Your hunger will never go below 100 if you just eat cooked monster meat, food is everywhere.

The mighty meter is very very very very easily managed.

[Capybara007]

Even if all these ideas are very interesting i greatly doubt klei is gonna go back and say "well we didnt do a good job, lets fix it"

They rarely do that and almost never did that with a character rework, think about the underwhelming features that some characters got and yet have until this day

Maybe this time it will be different bc of the controversy?

[mr. brj]

4 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Farming takes up even more time than crockpots + gembells combined lol

The new Wolfgang isn't bad by any means if you are solely interested in completing objectives. He is even faster at doing everything once he manages to get his whole setup running, so the dumbbells are actually a buff in the long run. A bishop setpiece around the spawn/mosaic biome is enough to make his snowball start before day 3.

The problem with the dumbbells is that they are encouraging the player to disengage from the game. If you don't want to constantly bother with this, you are not playing as a strongman. If you want to play as a strongman, then you have to not play the game every now and then, be it 10 seconds every in-game day or 2 minutes. You might not mind this, but apparently a lot of people do. And although I do love seeing Wolfgang throw dumbbells into the air while working out, this is just because of the art and the animations. Having to stop and watch that isn't engaging at all, and this is why people call it boring.

[Gashzer]

3 minutes ago, Hornete said:

You say that like Walter's actually use slowdown rounds in the first place, xD

Walter is one of my favourite characters, slow down rounds increase the efficiency of the catapults around bee queen. Help with kiting ancient guardian if you don't want to cheese him.

[Hornete]

Just now, Gashzer said:

Walter is one of my favourite characters,

Same here, and I do use slowdown rounds for Bee Queen and Phase 2 Champion. But that's it, very very niche situations so in the rest of my play I never end up using them. I wish they'd slow down the attack period of a mob like how poison in SW did, but that's for another thread :).

[Cloakingsumo198]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Again gembell lasts for 11 days of use, that is 11 days of constant mightiness.

There is no reason not to be might all the time, increased season protection, piggybag reduced speed is removed and increased work speed. All great outside of combat.

Just work out 3secs before you do something dangerous. Same as you would take 2secs to eat a meatball with old wolfgang.

Your hunger will never go below 100 if you just eat cooked monster meat, food is everywhere.

The mighty meter is very very very very easily managed.

Wasting gembell durability, wasting time pumping, wasting mighty, wasting food if using gym.  Not using increased workspeed if in base, don't need the removed reduced speed in base, don't need insulation in base.

Stop lying to all of us here, don't you read your own comments?

I don't need to eat monster meat, I have meaty stews and boss statues. But I still hate how this Wolfgang works.

[Yuuko]

2 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Stop lying to all of us here, don't you read your own comments?

idk - after a few of his posts, seems like pure troll at this point.  I wouldn't waste any time or effort with that one.

[Gashzer]

8 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

If your idea of fun is "go somewhere a bit far, watch an idle animation", then I guess to each their own.

 

You either waste Gems/Gold and Rocks, or you waste Food + materials for Gyms build all over the map. In past with food.. you just picked it up. That was it. Clean and neat. Now are extra-steps, on top of watching idle animations. Idle animation watching, even for 1s (when it can be up to 1.5 minutes, which is purely-and-simple ridiculous), is still idle animation watching. On-and-on-and-on. "Stop! Is idle animation time", all time. Bad design at its finest.

 

"Just a couple of seconds" here, "just a couple of seconds" there, "just a couple of seconds" everywhere. Idle times "Wolf game-play" summarized. Past character reworks (Wendy, Wigfrid) had new mechanic elements that could be ignored and no heavy penalty, or lack of fun would come front-and-center. But it seems Wolf players have to "suffer" through tedious and gimmicky new play-style just because. Mandatory.

Also I don't get this "throwing Dumb-bells" fetishist approach: how is that practical during fights? If you gain even 2x mightiness related to 1 normal flex via throwing them is not only negligible, but you most likely lost for the duration of that fight access to said Bells too, since you either hit a Pig/Spider/Bunny and aggroed all its peers on you and now you need to flee, or hit a boss and to recuperate the Gembell you will take a hit/dmg from respective boss, get out of kiting rhythm and/or have no meaningful impact whatsoever in relation to just go further and flex that idle animation .. again. Why? Why is so hard, more-so as a non-main Wolfgang, to accept best course of action in this case is: double the Dumb-bells durability across the board and maintain Might during fight as you do when carrying heavy objects?!

For boss fights just panflute the boss an use the gembell while it sleeps if playing solo.

If not playing solo most bosses will die before you need to actually work out again atleast from my experience.

Only dumbell you should throw is the rock one, and only at birds, goats or koalafants, rest of the time its a gimmick.

5 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Wasting gembell durability, wasting time pumping, wasting mighty, wasting food if using gym.  Not using increased workspeed if in base, don't need the removed reduced speed in base, don't need insulation in base.

Stop lying to all of us here, don't you read your own comments?

I don't need to eat monster meat, I have meaty stews and boss statues. But I still hate how this Wolfgang works.

But old wolfgang pointless hunger drain meant you needlessly wasted food while base building. The new wolfgang is much better for chilling at base compared to the old one.

2 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

idk - after a few of his posts, seems like pure troll at this point.  I wouldn't waste any time or effort with that one.

Says the crowd spamming hate on a very good rework, practically trolling on klei's hard work.

I want it to stay as is, hence why I want to show some support for the rework since most forum users hate it.

Don't want klei changing the rework due to a 100 "we hate reworked wolfgang" threads coming from only 4 or so people.