Speedy Wolfgang makes fights more fun

[MarkBlocos]

Removing the speed just makes it so its better to build a lot of armor and tank. With the speed buff, you have the option to kite most bosses and actually do a fun fight.

Spending one day lifting golden dumbells is not more fun than eating before the fight also. People that hate wolfgang because he makes fights "boring" are happy with this rework even though the fights are now just gonnna get boring tanking with 3 marble suits.

[Mike23Ua]

I guess I will never understand how being speedy in addition to dealing double damage and thus saving weapon durability you’d burn through as any other character is considered as “Fun” but I guess maybe I’m not meant to understand- I personally want to atleast get to try the reworked version (which fingers crossed comes to consoles this Thursday) before Klei makes any changes to it.

[MarkBlocos]

cause fights are fun and wolfgang makes kite and beat more fun with damage and speed. You can think its fun to farm 10 football helmets and 15 darkswords and never get to the lategame insane building. But i dont have that much time to play dst adn wolfgang was an option to use less resources and STILL fight in a fun method.
You dont like figuring out every boss pattern and use you high speed to dodge while you do double damage? ok, dont play him
Im not here complaingin that people do 15 catapults and afk the fight or tank as wigfrid whitout healing items

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I guess I will never understand how being speedy in addition to dealing double damage and thus saving weapon durability you’d burn through as any other character is considered as “Fun” but I guess maybe I’m not meant to understand- I personally want to atleast get to try the reworked version (which fingers crossed comes to consoles this Thursday) before Klei makes any changes to it.

Besides, everything you said you dont think its fun remains in the refresh, now you just dont have the option to rush bosses wihtout ruins gear and walking cane, but 2x damage is still there, so...

 

[Cloakingsumo198]

Wolfgang is far more active in combat with his speed, it allows more time to deal damage and still evade, it helps with those who make errors in their movement and certain attacks also can't be dodged without an increase in speed so yes speed helps alot in combat fluidity. It also helps alot if you decide to fight in an absolute cluster of enemies.

I believe kiting is far more engaging to the player than equipping stronger armor to take hits better

Right now it seems Wolfgang is basically the same just more tedious and not as rewarding he used to be higher maintenance than the average survivor but he made it up with cutting fights in half and moving around easier

[Cassielu]

If battles without speed bonuses and double damage were so boring, they should have changed the boss, not changed Wolfgang and made him the only interesting one.

[MarkBlocos]

they didnt change him, he was like this. The bosses are harder because its meant to be played with other, buit i dont have friends to play the dst. 
The fights are essentially the same if you kite and fight, wolfgang just saves on farming the resources that i dont find that much fun and have the time in my week to do so, does it make sense? 
I dont get how this refresh makes fighting with him more fun in that aspect, i doesnt change anything, only makes you want to tank more so the boss dies quickly before your mightiness runs out

[Gashzer]

Tbh you don't need speed boosts to kite most of the important bosses like dfly, ancient fuelweaver and klaus. For the rest a walking cane/straight up tanking with 2x damage is enough for wolfgang. Mightyness lasts for nearly a day now, use a panflute an top up with gembell if you need more than that to kill a boss. Also just to flex I kite dfly playing walter wearing a marble suit with no cane perfectly fine.

[Mike23Ua]

Might is no longer tied to hunger- you could be a starving Wolfgang but as long as your Might is up.. you will do a consistent 2x double damage: Prior to his rework you needed to constantly eat to keep his might and speed from dropping.

NOW his hunger drain has been reduced, he stays mighty longer even on full on starvation status: I mean what more could you want?

If your Mighty Longer with a persistent No declining 2x strength (before rework it declined) you finish fights in less time.

it’s only the Speed Outside of combat that people truly lost…

So: Maybe Since Wolfgang is a big coward.. he feels “threatened” by Bosses- this would make him Cowardly and anytime he is near to a boss… he losses his speed buff, but when outside of combat he can go fast.

Speed + A constant non draining 2x Damage would be too much.. But hey maybe my opinions wrong.

[MarkBlocos]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Might is no longer tied to hunger

sort of, you lose might faster and gain slower dependent on hunger, you need to be topped off on hunger to do a bq fight with hambat, cause you cant stop midfight for the dumbell. But i get what you are saying.

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Speed + A constant non draining 2x Damage would be too much..

i think that is what they thought, cause you can maintain mightiness easier now. I thought that being able to do BQ day 11 whitout ruins gear made him unique, but now he is just like every toher character and needs to rush ruins, plus has more damage, so i dont think the refresh improved on fun ways to play him.

 

9 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Tbh you don't need speed boosts to kite most of the important bosses like dfly, ancient fuelweaver and klaus. For the rest a walking cane/straight up tanking with 2x damage is enough for wolfgang. Mightyness lasts for nearly a day now, use a panflute an top up with gembell if you need more than that to kill a boss. Also just to flex I kite dfly playing walter wearing a marble suit with no cane perfectly fine.

you dont need anything extra to do stuff cause wilson can do it. Its not the point, i am saying that the speed makes it more fun to fight. Maybe you cna enjoy kiting dfly whit marble suit, im not a fan of that. I ilke my boys speedy, make it "funner" for me. What i am saying is that this refresh doesnt make the fighting part of wolfagng more fun, its just a buffed wilson, so like bleh

[Gashzer]

4 minutes ago, MarkBlocos said:

you dont need anything extra to do stuff cause wilson can do it. Its not the point, i am saying that the speed makes it more fun to fight. Maybe you cna enjoy kiting dfly whit marble suit, im not a fan of that. I ilke my boys speedy, make it "funner" for me. What i am saying is that this refresh doesnt make the fighting part of wolfagng more fun, its just a buffed wilson, so like bleh

He is just a buffed wilson, thats exactly what he has always been! Play wortox or wanda if you want non-wilson like boss fights with their unique dodging mechanics. The fighting hasn't changed that much at all, if anything im glad i don't have to ram a potato down my throat between swings, because thats not fun. Wolfgang feels far more polished now.

[SecretPizzaMan]

34 minutes ago, MarkBlocos said:

sort of, you lose might faster and gain slower dependent on hunger, you need to be topped off on hunger to do a bq fight with hambat, cause you cant stop midfight for the dumbell. But i get what you are saying.

I think that is what they thought, cause you can maintain mightiness easier now. I thought that being able to do BQ day 11 without ruins gear made him unique, but now he is just like every other character and needs to rush ruins, plus has more damage, so i don't think the refresh improved on fun ways to play him.

 

You don't need anything extra to do stuff cause wilson can do it. Its not the point, I am saying that the speed makes it more fun to fight. Maybe you can enjoy kiting dragonfly with marble suit, I'm not a fan of that. I like my boys speed, makes it "funner" for me. What I am saying is that this refresh doesn't make the fighting part of wolfgang more fun, its just a buffed wilson, so like bleh.

Killing beequeen day 11 with no ruins gear isn't unique to Wolfgang, Wendy can do it earlier (though with way more healing needed). Btw, Wolfgang was always a buffed Wilson, tell me one downside that was noteworthy. It would be that 3x hunger drain on mighty that causes you to do 1.9x damage instead of 2x.

[Mangrove]

Yeah, speedy maneuvering in fights, especially larger packs of mobs, is a lot of fun! Especially combined with the tension of keeping your mightiness topped off. Imagine you're chased by a pack of shadow splumonkeys, here an ill-timed meatball can be deadly, but you need to find an opening to eat before your transformation animation happens. It's thrilling!

Wortox or Wanda don't quite substitute this experience, but Wanda does look like the most likely candidate I'll switch to if the speed really is gone. She's got a different kind of tension with her age mechanic, and she requires an adaptive playing style while fighting, similar to (how I play) Wolfgang. She's just not quite as satisfying to play for someone who values speed and fluidity as much as I do

[Owlrust]

I mean, having increased speed just gives less incentive for players to ever be "Normal" Wolfgang. which in turn makes his playstyle become about staying in Mighty form permanently which is not really a great idea because of the upkeep. Heck, the 50 points you're normal Wolf even speaks novels about the intentions to that idea. On top of that, the amount of hits a character can make increases with the speed they have when kiting, which is a tad overkill to a guy with double damage.

Plus I just don't get why people want his speed back for a few other reasons.

• How come the Weremoose loses speed in his form, making kiting harder and hitting less often, when new Wolfgang would be able to wear armor that is 5% more effective than the Weremoose's armor and is actually faster by (what would be) a large margin while also dealing double damage? Doesn't seem remotely fair in comparison for using something that's harder to gauge than just lifting weights.
• Why does a speed bonus make sense lore-wise for Wolfgang, isn't he just a strongman not an athlete? Also what part of moving faster is not only more fun, but something supposed to be exclusive to him? Shouldn't everyone benefit from a speed bonus, why just him?
• Wouldn't it make more sense for a lighter-frame guy to be faster than a muscle-bound organic fortress of a man?

Honestly I'm not even against him getting his speed back, I just haven't heard a good argument for why he should keep it outside of "It's just fun" or "It's part of the Wolfgang experience".

[Cloakingsumo198]

I believe the weremoose comparison is kinda bad just cause woodies forms overall kinda suck cause they all have niches, running fast and on water, fast chopping, and being ok in combat? I dunno i just remember weremoose being extremely under whelming when his rework came out.  It makes sense on Wolfgang just cause he is strong and big I dunno if you ever raced someone with long legs but that helps with covering distance even if that individual is all muscle mass just look at American footballers they are huge and gotta cover big distances in short time although in that sense they are more like short distance sprinters than a marathon runner.

But yes runners are generally tall and slender but they are also are people that train hard

[Dextops]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I guess I will never understand how being speedy in addition to dealing double damage and thus saving weapon durability you’d burn through as any other character is considered as “Fun” but I guess maybe I’m not meant to understand- I personally want to atleast get to try the reworked version (which fingers crossed comes to consoles this Thursday) before Klei makes any changes to it.

because it had some sort of a skill ceiling and had more depth to his combat than current wolfgang does

[Mr Giggio]

ypu know what is not fun? people who doesnt want to stop whinning about losin bonus speed instead of trying to use magiluminescence for a while
the rework is fine u guys need to get over it, honestly 

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, Dextops said:

because it had some sort of a skill ceiling and had more depth to his combat than current wolfgang does

There’s no skill ceiling to a character who does more damage then everyone else in the game & moves faster then everyone else in the game: And no you can’t say “But WX78..” Because WX Has not been refreshed yet (their day will come)

You have to compare Reworked Wolfgang to all the other Reworked characters which would be:

Warly, Winona, Willow, Woodie, Wendy, Wigfrid, Wes, & Webber.

They each got new craftables of some sort, they each got items locked behind having to collect and craft stuff, they each got a natural sense of progression from who they were portrayed as in DS to who they are NOW in DST.

The Speed buff Klei gave Wolfgang originally was a MISTAKE he was never intended to have it to begin with, they just couldn’t back then come up with a good way to portray being “Mighty” so they kept it in because it was a single player game and your OP character choice wouldn’t impact the other 20+ character choices.

But with DST: He’s the winning literal race horse, or WAS until this Reimagining of him.. Klei took a concept from 2013 and almost 10 years later… have reimagined him to more accurately portray being Mighty.

People who can’t enjoy that never really liked Wolfgang for who he is portrayed to be in all his loading screens, vignettes and artwork: they only played him for insane damage, insane speed and Simplicity.

These things weren’t just thought up out of thin air…. They have ALWAYS been part of these characters and who they are: the problem is that it’s only now in 2021 that they’re coming up with brilliant ways to incorporate that Personality into their Playstyle.

People who were happy running around at fast speed killing things at a fast pace and only needing to worry about running out of food: Did they ever like Wolfgang as a Character at all?? Or did they just like the busted unintentional & accidental power Klei gave to him?

Here let me show this to the people claiming WILLOW getting a Teddy Bear in her Rework doesn’t make sense allow me to present to you.. Bernie- Who has existed in Artwork in the CHARACTER SELECTION SCREEN of the Original Dont Starve 

So now let’s look at the “Mighty” Wolfgang-

Thats the Dumbell right there In his hand this isn’t just some idea the community who doesn’t play Wolfgang tried to shoehorn into his kit, it’s Who he has ALWAYS BEEN..

I am deeply saddened that so many people are unhappy with it, but Klei isn’t likely to revert these changes.. 

You would be better off asking them to add an official “Classic Mode” so you can play characters Pre-Rework.

[Cloakingsumo198]

13 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

There’s no skill ceiling to a character who does more damage then everyone else in the game & moves faster then everyone else in the game: And no you can’t say “But WX78..” Because WX Has not been refreshed yet (their day will come)

You have to compare Reworked Wolfgang to all the other Reworked characters which would be:

Warly, Winona, Willow, Woodie, Wendy, Wigfrid, Wes, & Webber.
 

They each got new craftables of some sort, they each got items locked behind having to collect and craft stuff, they each got natural sense of progression from who they were portrayed as in DS to who they are NOW in DST.

The Speed buff Klei gave Wolfgang originally was a MISTAKE he was never intended to have it to begin with, they just couldn’t back then come it with a good way to portray being “Mighty” so they kept in because it was a single player game and your OP character choice wouldn’t impact the other 20+ character choices.

But with DST: He’s the winning literal race horse, or WAS until this Reimagining of him.. Klei took a concept from 2013 and almost 10 years later… have reimagined him to more accurately portray being Mighty.

People who can’t enjoy that never like Wolfgang for who he is portrayed to be in all his loading screens, vignettes and artwork: they only played him for insane damage, insane speed and Simplicity.

These things weren’t just thought up out of thin air…. They have ALWAYS been part of these characters and who they are: the problem is that it’s only now in 2021 that they’re coming up with brilliant ways to incorporate that Personality into their Playstyle.

People who were happy running around at fast speed killing things at a fast pace and only needing to worry about running out of food: Did they ever like Wolfgang as a Character at all?? Or did they just like the busted unintentional & accidental power Klei gave to him?

Here to the people claiming WILLOW getting a Teddy Bear in her Rework doesn’t make sense allow me to present to you.. Bernie- Who has existed in Artwork in the CHARACTER SELECTION SCREEN of the Original Dont Starve 

So now let’s look at the “Mighty” Wolfgang-

Thats the Dumbell right there I’m his hand this isn’t just some idea the community who doesn’t play Wolfgang tried to shoehorn into his kit, it’s Who he has ALWAYS BEEN..

I am deeply saddened that so many people are unhappy with it, but Klei isn’t likely to revert these changes.. 

You would be better off asking them to add an official “Classic Mode” so you can play characters Pre-Rework.

I'm pretty sure liking how Wolfgang played also plays into liking his character buff dude that hits hard, gets scared, but also jolly B) it just feels weird to completely write off the people who clearly played him the most ????

It's just a strange take man and many characters had things added to them or were buffed/made more interesting but wolf is more of the same if not weaker and he needs tweaking to feel more like how he used to play in pace because it's way differently paced compared to before he just needs things to make him unique in his own way that isn't just press a button while on a machine or waiting while watching an animation. It should be fun and convenient or just feel more like natural progression instead of a break in gameplay. I believe what they have is good they should just add more nuance or ways to achieve the same goal instead of just the 3 dumbbells and a stationary gym. Or add more things to do while mighty instead so it's also useful outside of combat and not just the damage boost and carry better which is what the speed boost basically already did.

[Erineyes7]

In my opinion, the speed helped him alot outside of just combat. Wolfgang has always been a big combat character, it's his (and Wigfrids) thing, but removing one of the perks that added something to him besides hitting hard is kinda lame tbh. He's just that strength now, and it sucks.

He somehow feels more flat without it now.

[Cloakingsumo198]

1 minute ago, Erineyes7 said:

In my opinion, the speed helped him alot outside of just combat. Wolfgang has always been a big combat character, it's his (and Wigfrids) thing, but removing one of the perks that added something to him besides hitting hard is kinda lame tbh. He's just that strength now, and it sucks.

He somehow feels more flat without it now.

Simple if he can't be fast than his crazy strength should really apply more to what he does. Cause right now he does what he already did just worse

[ArubaroBeefalo]

how?

33 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Simple if he can't be fast than his crazy strength should really apply more to what he does. Cause right now he does what he already did just worse

he already saves time, resources and waste wayyy less food than before to get more damage output

 

[Ohan]

6 hours ago, Owlrus said:

I just haven't heard a good argument for why he should keep it outside of "It's just fun" or "It's part of the Wolfgang experience".

They want a powerful character that bulldozes the game and is easy/low effort and cheap to play everything else is just noise/obfuscation. 

[Cloakingsumo198]

12 minutes ago, Ohan said:

They want a powerful character that bulldozes the game and is easy/low effort and cheap to play everything else is just noise/obfuscation. 

We want something closer to the original Wolfgang, this isn't near how he used to play every rework didn't fundamentally change how the character plays they added onto and revamped how they go about their powers Wolfgang is practically the same thing just more tedious and for what real benefit the only noticable change aside from lifting instead of eating is tossing barbells. Not everyone wishes to be a plant.

Besides wasn't the complaint that holding mighty form was just too easy for all his benefits, now he's gotta make his own gym wherever and also carry barbells which are far slower to gain mighty than just eating why is the speed gone as well, people are hating on a character they don't play and wishing for him to be as boring as their main

[Ohan]

20 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

We want something closer to the original Wolfgang, this isn't near how he used to play every rework didn't fundamentally change how the character plays they added onto and revamped how they go about their powers Wolfgang is practically the same thing just more tedious and for what real benefit the only noticable change aside from lifting instead of eating is tossing barbells. Not everyone wishes to be a plant.

Thats what i mean. 

Some people have gotten used to just eating food for double damage and speed boost with practically no downside, anything more than that effort-wise is completely unacceptable.

If it wasnt theyd be playing wanda since they keep repeating how shes the more powerful one. But wanda cant just eat food to achieve her power. 

Personally im much more interested in how wolfgang players like Toros and others view the character and what they’d want for him. They strike me as much more invested in the actual character and not just the old eat food to run over and bulldoze the game thing. Im much more interested in playing the wolfgang they have in mind. 

[Cloakingsumo198]

11 minutes ago, Ohan said:

Thats what i mean. 

Some people have gotten used to just eating food for double damage and speed boost with practically no downside, anything more than that effort-wise is completely unacceptable.

If it wasnt theyd be playing wanda since they keep repeating how shes the more powerful one. But wanda cant just eat food to achieve her power. 

Personally im much more interested in how wolfgang players like Toros and others view the character and what they’d want for him. They strike me as much more invested in the actual character and not just the old eat food to run over and bulldoze the game thing. And im much more interested in playing the wolfgang they have in mind. 

But Wanda isn't Wolfgang she plays entirely differently and has more tools to fit her time/age mechanic.  Old Wolfgang was always active cause that's what his abilities allowed him to do and his downsides made him do that because other wise he was wasting resources and extending the time spent.  If you want a character that does special things every other character has a niche to them that the others can't fulfill at all.  If you don't wanna give Wolfgang speed that's fine but this debate that the armor buff alone makes up for what he lost is pretty laughable in comparison to how useful the speed was, if Wolfgang is gonna row better mighty, make his harvesting better or give him some niche so that you actually wanna be in mighty form and maintain it all the time not just i need to smash this things face in let me lift this barbell for 50 seconds. To get the same effect he would already have. Old Wolfgang always wanted to be strong all the time/ new Wolfgang would just be a hassle to maintain his form and noone wants to maintain it anyway if it's just combat oriented

If i wanted to sit around to see something grow I would be warly or wormwood

Wanna build woodie, werm, Maxwell, wicker, Winona

They all fill niches if you have a plan for the long game but some people only play for an hour or two some people just need a character to be a generalist, easy to pick up, or someone that doesn't have to build your mcguffin before enjoying them. Wolfgang calls for action and that dumbbell is only good for downtime