rgduck Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 I built several steam engines on top of the magma biome, controlling the steam chamber temperature with an airlock attached to a thermo sensor. See the first picture. One of these airlock temperature regulators failed, allowing the steam chamber temperature to rise to nearly 1000C and destroying the steam engine. See the second picture. The automation actually functioned properly (and is still functioning). It opens the door to stop the flow of heat whenever the steam chamber temperature goes above 185C. But for some reason, opening the airlock didn't stop the steam chamber temperature from rising ... for just this one steam engine. The identical (I think) setups to the right and left are still working fine. Anybody have a guess as to what went wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolthulhu Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 My guesses: The door didn't go through full open/close cycle and so there was some gas left inside The temperature rose too quickly, embedded the regulator in sand, although I'm not sure if this would stop it from working Some automation melted or was badly configured Bugs? If a sand or gas tile could teleport into the open door, it could happen. There was a bug with falling embedded sand building stupidly tall pillars, going through other tiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 44 minutes ago, rgduck said: Anybody have a guess as to what went wrong? One question: -Why there are no insulated tiles beyond this? And some guesses: -There is a known bug of "steam deletion" that could cause that. -Leaving dirt above tiles that could heat it to sand it is also not advisable... (I least I think that round debris above the window tiles are dirt, what remained of boiled polluted water perhaps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntr1cate Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 In some cases there is a solid (but invisible) tile in the doors location, this sometimes happens with magma (when it enters the chamber when being built) where it converts to igneous rock and becomes a solid (meaning you have a full tile behind your door where as doors only delete liquids and gases). It might also be that debrie fell into the open doors location on being built, then every time your door closed it conducted heat into the debrie (conducts faster when door is closed) which turned it into magma then cooled into igneous rock Usually there are minor glitches in the doors animation that lets you know a full tile is there, so I can't be sure if this is the case for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgduck Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 Thanks all for the responses. 8 hours ago, Coolthulhu said: The door didn't go through full open/close cycle and so there was some gas left inside I checked. It's full vacuum. 8 hours ago, Coolthulhu said: The temperature rose too quickly, embedded the regulator in sand, although I'm not sure if this would stop it from working Some automation melted or was badly configured Actually the automation is still working even now! It's refined iron, so not melted even at 1000C. 7 hours ago, sakura_sk said: -Why there are no insulated tiles beyond this? That's the leftmost engine. It's neutronium over there, IIRC (don't have the game open right now). 7 hours ago, sakura_sk said: -There is a known bug of "steam deletion" that could cause that. -Leaving dirt above tiles that could heat it to sand it is also not advisable... (I least I think that round debris above the window tiles are dirt, what remained of boiled polluted water perhaps) Could you link to that bug? Yes, the dirt is from boiled polluted water. And yes, it does annoyingly turn to sand every now and then. Is there a good way to avoid this? 52 minutes ago, Zerohayven said: In some cases there is a solid (but invisible) tile in the doors location, this sometimes happens with magma (when it enters the chamber when being built) where it converts to igneous rock and becomes a solid (meaning you have a full tile behind your door where as doors only delete liquids and gases). It might also be that debrie fell into the open doors location on being built, then every time your door closed it conducted heat into the debrie (conducts faster when door is closed) which turned it into magma then cooled into igneous rock Usually there are minor glitches in the doors animation that lets you know a full tile is there, so I can't be sure if this is the case for you Invisible tiles! Good lord. I'll check if the door-closing animation looks glitchy. Wouldn't any debris in the door get deleted when the door cycles? Or at lest be visible now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntr1cate Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 1 minute ago, rgduck said: Invisible tiles! Good lord. I'll check if the door-closing animation looks glitchy. Wouldn't any debris in the door get deleted when the door cycles? Or at lest be visible now? Solids/debrie isn't subject to deletion like gases/liquids (gas/liquid debrie in the form of bottles isn't subject to this rule but still attains the increased TC when the door is closed) Sometimes (in my own experience with this issues) you won't notice or is very difficult to notice the door/tile being bugging as the door has the priority on visibility over the tile (much as a tile has the priority over the visibility over wires/pipes). Best way to find out the answer if this is the case is to decontruct the door (which might mean forcing a duplicant with a atmo suit into the chamber to check) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 30 minutes ago, rgduck said: Could you link to that bug? [vanishing steam bug] It is probably a sim related weird bug that can delete steam from enclosed steam turbine rooms leading to low steam concentration and eventually overheat everything... (If you think this is responsible you can check if every water packet exits the liquid vent) 39 minutes ago, rgduck said: Is there a good way to avoid this? The only way to avoid having dirt in the room would be to not have any polluted water evaporating directly above the two tiles that can overheat that dirt... If you have to put polluted water in there, maybe the other corner of the room would be better. There is a chance the liquid vent dripping directly above the thermo sensor to be the problem because it would make it go on-off more often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgduck Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 4 hours ago, sakura_sk said: [vanishing steam bug] It is probably a sim related weird bug that can delete steam from enclosed steam turbine rooms leading to low steam concentration and eventually overheat everything... (If you think this is responsible you can check if every water packet exits the liquid vent) Gotcha. Okay, I've moused over the three tiles that are still steam, and they add up to about the amount of water I thought I had in there (~1000kg). So it wasn't steam deletion. 5 hours ago, Zerohayven said: Solids/debrie isn't subject to deletion like gases/liquids (gas/liquid debrie in the form of bottles isn't subject to this rule but still attains the increased TC when the door is closed) Sometimes (in my own experience with this issues) you won't notice or is very difficult to notice the door/tile being bugging as the door has the priority on visibility over the tile (much as a tile has the priority over the visibility over wires/pipes). Best way to find out the answer if this is the case is to decontruct the door (which might mean forcing a duplicant with a atmo suit into the chamber to check) Wait. Even if the door has visibility priority over a hidden tile or debris, wouldn't it still be listed when I mouse over that spot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgduck Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 Further oddity: the tiles that were created above the steam chamber when everything blew up (see first pic) continued heating up even after the steam engine was destroyed, to around 1000C (comparable to the temperature in the steam chamber). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Then it's most definitely a "tower of terror" forming on save load (among everything else...) when debris of igneous rock of solidifying magma got entombed lower in the magma biome. The igneous rock tiles that appear could be cause of that. They would maintain a near magma temperature too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgduck Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, sakura_sk said: Then it's most definitely a "tower of terror" forming on save load (among everything else...) when debris of igneous rock of solidifying magma got entombed lower in the magma biome. The igneous rock tiles that appear could be cause of that. They would maintain a near magma temperature too. Thanks!! Terrifying indeed! Is it a random event then? That is, if I go back to a previous save can I just verify it hasn't happened whenever I reload? I also see there's a mod that fixes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 There is the "stock bug fix" mod that fixes that one and several other bugs. If there is any debris igneous rock, entombed in igneous rock natural tile, it will create a tower when you load the game, every time you load if one such tile exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yobbo Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 17 hours ago, sakura_sk said: One question: -Why there are no insulated tiles beyond this? The eyes of a hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishoutofwater Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 liquid vent above thermo regulator might cause the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riwenna Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 Actually, I have encountered the same bug myself in a similar system -- layer of aluminium, layer of doors, layer of aluminium, with the doors to create the vacuum and (dis)connect the heat transfer. The whole thing was in vacuum, so there's no chance any gasses or liquids got in on open/close. Fortunately, my system is transfering chill, not heat, at it was all in above-freezing temperatures, so nothing broke, I just cooled my power brick a bit too much and wasted some power. Same as in your setup, the middle doors were open, yet the aquatuner was chugging at non-stop and the steam turbine just about managed to keep up with it. This in fact happened several times (usually after a load), but I found a very simple way to fix it: close the doors and open them again "manually" (by flipping the automation settings for a second). After doing this manually, the system starts functioning as normal. You should make a bug report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yobbo Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 4 hours ago, riwenna said: You should make a bug report. The latest patch on the public testing branch includes "Fixed issue that could cause an unexpected column of natural tiles to appear on load.", so it's possible this was just solved, if that indeed is the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbn Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Yobbo said: 8 hours ago, riwenna said: You should make a bug report. The latest patch on the public testing branch includes "Fixed issue that could cause an unexpected column of natural tiles to appear on load.", so it's possible this was just solved, if that indeed is the cause. Yes, I have tried the latest test version and the "tower of terror" seems to be resolved. However, my guess is that @riwenna's case is probably not the "tower of terror" but this bug. The bug is that if you mix in the noise of the red signal at a specific time just before you finish opening the door with the green signal, you will be left with an invisible individual tile in the opened door. If the door opening and closing is controlled by a temperature sensor, this bug is more likely to occur because the automation signal changes erratically as the temperature rises and falls near the sensor's threshold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riwenna Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 @kbnYou're right, mine seems to be the airlock bug. My airlock is controlled by a pipe thermo sensor, which is a bit less erratic than a gas thermo sensor as it can change at most once per liquid packet, but this indeed seems to be the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgduck Posted September 5, 2021 Author Share Posted September 5, 2021 On 8/30/2021 at 3:41 PM, sakura_sk said: There is the "stock bug fix" mod that fixes that one and several other bugs. If there is any debris igneous rock, entombed in igneous rock natural tile, it will create a tower when you load the game, every time you load if one such tile exists. Forget to post a response, but yes, this solved the problem I was experiencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 2 hours ago, rgduck said: Forget to post a response, but yes, this solved the problem I was experiencing. Glad to hear that. Also, the bug was fixed for the testing branch right now, so you will not need the mod for this particular bug in two weeks, when the branch goes live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgduck Posted September 5, 2021 Author Share Posted September 5, 2021 29 minutes ago, sakura_sk said: Glad to hear that. Also, the bug was fixed for the testing branch right now, so you will not need the mod for this particular bug in two weeks, when the branch goes live Great! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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