USELESS ELECTRIC MILK & WX-78

[Terra B Welch]

I am going to point out, if someone wants a bulk amout of ice cream and has a few goat herds, it tends to be better to go for the milk, with it being a 100% drop(You just have to bring a morning star or other electric source), over killing butterflies in hopes of a 2% drop and with bundling wrap you can make a stack of ice cream and bundle it, only unbundling it when you need the sanity.

[Guille6785]

46 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

you can even set up a butter farm using catcoons 

ah yes, 1 butter every 4 days on average during autumn with the area loaded the entire time

[Maxposting]

20 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

I'm more concerned about the fact that the gorge had 16 different recipes that required goat milk and the base game has 0 even though goat milk exists

Ice cream and waffles?

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

Ice cream and waffles?

you can't make waffles with milk and ice cream doesn't require it

[Gourmand]

8 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

you can't make waffles with milk and ice cream doesn't require it

Precisely, this isn't a discussion about which is easier to obtain, milk vs. butter, but rather how milk has nothing unique going for it. Also, thank you for pointing out that the catcoon area needs to be loaded in. I didn't realize this as my base is in that biome 

[hot focaccia]

On 7/9/2021 at 5:51 PM, Gourmand said:

The point being you don't need milk for ice cream, butter is the better option 100% the time. Lasts longer, you can even set up a butter farm using catcoons 

To be frank, once you have set up volt goat ranches then you can easily get more milk than what you will ever need without being attacked by some cats and spoilage doesn`t really matter because you could just make a bundling wrap (and quite frankly unless you are playing solo if you can afford to make multiple voltgoat ranches then you are probably wealthy enough to kill bee queen)

[Scrubsbarry]

I think the main issue is that ice cream is something you really have to go out of your way to get by setting up a volt goat farm to get consistently (which, unless your playing Warly for Volt Jelly, won't benefit much from anything else besides morning stars). It works like waffles in the sense that its a rare boost to your sanity when you're in a pinch that's better than alternatives, but the alternatives for sanity are imo better since they are easier to get passively.

-Tam o Shanter you'll likely get your 1st winter trying to get a walking cane and stacks with other sanity-aura boosting things, like the sisturn and glommer/fruit fly when you put them close to each other.

-Bee Queen Crown essentially negates negative sanity auras if you can kite (just dodge lol), in caves you can get a bunch of sanity back by standing near lights in the ruins

-Cooked Cactus and Cooked Green Caps can be stockpiled easily via green mushroom forest or desert

-Other crock pot foods are much easier and cheaper to make restore sanity, such as taffy, spiral tubers, and also jerky. They give less but honey and potatoes are really easy to obtain in bulk.

-Jelly salad gives you 50 sanity, the same amount as ice cream, while being arguably easier to obtain since you can stockpile lureplants over time and uses essentially the same recipe. It also doesn't change your temperature, which may be detrimental if you happen to use ice cream in the winter. Lureplants are also a lot easier to manage and can be put right next to bases if the ground has the right turf or on a boat for faster harvesting then killing volt goats individually.

It makes sense that milk/butter is rare since in a survival setting those would likely be a delicacy, but they were added in Vanilla/RoG and new options in DST like bundling wrap have sort of power crept there way as better options. If they buffed volt goat milk to have more uses or make ice cream stronger I think that would justify some of the jankiness and tedium that can occur when setting up a volt goat farm for other things besides Volt Jelly. I think an alternate recipe that guarantees you get struck by lightning after eating it would be fun, like electric cheese or something so its easier for WX to stack overcharge solo or to force feed to your friends as a prank.

[Guille6785]

5 hours ago, Scrubsberry said:

I think the main issue is that ice cream is something you really have to go out of your way to get by setting up a volt goat farm to get consistently (which, unless your playing Warly for Volt Jelly, won't benefit much from anything else besides morning stars)

fyi volt goats drop truckloads of meat, there's no reason not to farm them if you have them nearby

[Cheggf]

9 hours ago, Scrubsberry said:

I think the main issue is that ice cream is

That you are exaggerating the difficulty of obtaining ice cream and the effectiveness of its alternatives while comparing it to rare items that aren't always available and/or require a lot more skill/time to acquire.

Volt goat farms are great. Tons of meat, weather pains, morning stars, volt goat chaud froid, milk for ice cream, milk for handing to random players who don't know what the item is, milk for making silly hats, lots of good stuff from having a goat farm. I wouldn't be opposed to new recipes including milk, but they aren't necessary.

[Gourmand]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

That you are exaggerating the difficulty of obtaining ice cream and the effectiveness of its alternatives while comparing it to rare items that aren't always available and/or require a lot more skill/time to acquire.

Volt goat farms are great. Tons of meat, weather pains, morning stars, volt goat chaud froid, milk for ice cream, milk for handing to random players who don't know what the item is, milk for making silly hats, lots of good stuff from having a goat farm. I wouldn't be opposed to new recipes including milk, but they aren't necessary.

You can make the hats with butter but other than that yes agreed

[Scrubsbarry]

5 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

there's no reason not to farm them if you have them nearby

I agree, it makes the oasis an even more favorable spot to base since they'll be located there and can be less expensive than setting up rabbit hutches or pig farms if your looking for meat. If you aren't nearby, though, trying to relocate them can be annoying, but doable.

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

That you are exaggerating the difficulty of obtaining ice cream and the effectiveness of its alternatives while comparing it to rare items that aren't always available and/or require a lot more skill/time to acquire.

My view on volt goats comes from how I personally play, where I usually don't base in the oasis, which in turn makes it so I never really use volt goats at all or come into contact with them so I settle for the alternatives of gaining sanity back that are easier for me than getting ice cream, and see them as ways of only getting volt goat horns instead of a food source. If you use volt goats as one of your main food sources you'll obviously get it more than I do and is probably better for you to utilize ice cream than the other methods. 

I compared it to rarer items like the queen crown mainly because I needed to fill the meme since I'd put volt goat farms on par with effective alternatives that require skill, since you have to know how to charge the goats via telelocator staff and kiting them w/ lightning protective gear. Obviously fighting bee queen and setting up a farm are very different, but they both require a good amount of knowledge and can both be done easily when you know what you're doing. Even if you can't get rarer items like the crown or the tam o shanter, green caps/cactus still exist and are a lot easier to stockpile.

For time-gated methods, jelly salad is the only method that I really see taking forever to build up, but in your first year, but you'll usually get ~2 lureplants in the spring which give you leafy meat every 3ish days, which I'd argue is on par with volt goat respawn times if you only have 1 herd for the same sanity restoration if you're harvesting them often.

[Frashaw27]

5 minutes ago, Scrubsberry said:

how to charge the goats via telelocator staff

Why would you need the charge them with a telelocater staff?  Any old hit from a morning star or electric darts will do that significantly easier and less messy.

10 minutes ago, Scrubsberry said:

green caps/cactus still exist and are a lot easier to stockpile

While this is true, it also disregards the effectiveness difference between the two sources. Ice Cream does over 3 times the amount sanity the cactus or green caps can give, which may seem insignificant, but that during a fight, the less time you can spend healing, is more time spent pummeling whatever poor fool you are targeting. It's the same logic on why it is preferable to have pierogies or dragonfruit pies instead of healing salves as you can get the same amount with less resources and time. I will also say that the amount of cactus is inherently capped by world Gen, meaning there is no way to get more if you get unlucky or have that friendly wilow get a little too ambitious. Green caps, on the other hand, are infinitely more renewable and profitable, but require constant living log and spore maintenance to maximize product as compared to killing a few goats with mjolnir and collecting some honey.

20 minutes ago, Scrubsberry said:

the queen crown

The problem with the Bee Queen Crown is that it, along with all of the other clothing related methods like  the floaty crown or walrus hat, it isn't  instant. While this maybe good while you are doing other things and want it to be passive or to combat the sanity drain of other things, it just doesn't  deliver when need that sanity right then. While fighting the clops, you can easily lose all of your sanity, or break multiple things in the process of negating it, and since the insanity doesn't pair well with bosses, it's impairitive to be put back in a state where they no longer pursue you ASAP. While the crown is indeed powerful, it does nothing that can't be more safely done/less resources intensive then with normal armor and ice cream.

28 minutes ago, Scrubsberry said:

I really see taking forever to build up, but in your first year, but you'll usually get ~2 lureplants in the spring which give you leafy meat every 3ish days

OH, you mean I can get an entire 1 Jelly Salad every 3 days, why haven't I been blind to see, nay blind to the true uncompetitive powers that is the Salad. All hail the salad for it is good.

All sarcasm aside, the main problem with Jelly Salad is that you need ALOT of lureplants to gain an amount of leafy meat to combat the amount of Oce Cream you harvest from a hoard. If I guess that there were 9 goats in that pack you were gingerly massacuring, you would be able to get 16 meats, maybe 4 horns, and 8 milks (since you need a goat alive to get the incestuous slaughter alive). This would get you a good amount of food, as well as 8 ice creams. In order to make that amount from Jelly Salad, you would need 16 lureplants, which you can only get after 8 in game years, maybe less if are lucky. The bottom line is that Jelly Salad takes so long to get returns comparable to Ice Cream that it loses its effectiveness and only become viable when you are already have topped the world.

That is the simplest reason why Ice Cream is better, it isn't reliant on a rng mechanic mechanic that requires year to get comparable to it's competitors. I will admit that once the Salad becomes good, it becomes crushes all others in its wake, however, the climb up to that point is tedious at best, and soul draining at most.

[Scrubsbarry]

8 hours ago, Frashaw27 said:

Why would you need the charge them with a telelocater staff?

I was referring to the initial harvests of the farm prior to getting any horns for morning stars if you're unlucky, l didn't consider electric darts which are probably the better alternative since they're cheaper.

8 hours ago, Frashaw27 said:

Ice Cream does over 3 times the amount sanity the cactus or green caps can give, which may seem insignificant, but that during a fight, the less time you can spend healing, is more time spent pummeling whatever poor fool you are targeting. It's the same logic on why it is preferable to have pierogies or dragonfruit pies instead of healing salves as you can get the same amount with less resources and time. I will also say that the amount of cactus is inherently capped by world Gen, meaning there is no way to get more if you get unlucky or have that friendly wilow get a little too ambitious. Green caps, on the other hand, are infinitely more renewable and profitable, but require constant living log and spore maintenance to maximize product as compared to killing a few goats with mjolnir and collecting some honey.

In most cases, I don't see the faster boost mattering in a boss setting since the downtime before the boss attacks again is more than enough to eat multiple items. Cactus and Green Caps both are pretty fast to eat and you could eat as much as ice cream would restore mid-combat at the cost of maybe a few extra hits on a boss. Comparing it to healing salves is a bad comparison since in this case cacti/greencaps are easier to stockpile then salves and are a lot slower, though I agree cactus can be rng dependent, especially if both deserts are far away which makes harvesting annoying to do. I referred to green mushroom forests since they're similar to cactus in that they spawn in bulk in one location naturally and don't require any maintenance, but farms are better for getting a bunch of it.

 

8 hours ago, Frashaw27 said:

The problem with the Bee Queen Crown

How do you use the crown? While I mainly pointed out its use for sanity stations, it completely negates lost sanity during a boss fight, removing the need to use sanity-restoring food in the first place. Equipping it against deerclops and kiting him makes it pointless to care about sanity, and if you do get hit, it doesn't matter since its a helmet. Of course, it will eventually break, but unless you're tanking bosses it should last a long time if you prolong its durability by wearing chest armor or swapping it with a football helmet when your sanity is full. Unless you're binging bosses, you can easily fight Bee Queen again to get another one, especially if there's a Wendy in your group that makes the fight a joke with how little resources you really need for it. 

 

9 hours ago, Frashaw27 said:

All sarcasm aside, the main problem with Jelly Salad is that you need ALOT of lureplants to gain an amount of leafy meat to combat the amount of Oce Cream you harvest from a hoard

Here's the thing: in my experience you don't really need to stockpile big sanity restoring foods since it only takes like three of them, depending on your character, to fully max your sanity. I can stockpile as many sanity-restoring foods as I want and put 40 ice creams or 160 cooked green caps in a bundling wrap, but I'm probably not going to use all of it for a while. Unless you're playing on a server with a lot of people to where you would need it since not everyone has easy sanity restoration, you're only gonna be using those in boss fights that take forever or the ruins if you are also using any of the other methods I presented for getting sanity back.

I prefer jelly salad because I almost never need on demand high sanity restoration, since I use a combination of the other sanity gain methods all the time to keep it up. I don't rely only on jelly salad, I just find it an easier, more passive way of getting sanity if needed since they're mostly set and forget until its time to harvest, and if I don't need the sanity I can use it in beefy greens or other recipes. Lureplants are definitely less efficient than volt goats in terms of output, but they make up for it in convenience with little to no maintenance and can be placed near kitchen areas for easy access.  Ice cream can be a great alternative for these methods if you use a volt goat farm, but if you aren't often in close proximity to volt goats to utilize them to their full potential your better off using the plenty of other methods to get the same results.