yoyo13 Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Am i dreaming or this water sieve delete 80°C of Polluted water ? I added my save file if som1 can canfirm it MedalTVOxygenNotIncluded20210516181850.mp4 The Happy Panopticon.sav Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 The sand used is colder, that cools the output. The polluted dirt produced is warmer than the sand used, that is where the heat goes. No deletion. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, Gurgel said: No deletion. Shouldn't it end up at 20ish degrees and not 1C water though? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghkbrew Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 How long have you been running this setup? Is it possible you're seeing old water coming out with new hot water going in? I just loaded your save and the pipes were in the progress of being built. When I got it setup, 80C polluted water was being converted to 80C water like expected. Do you have a save with the sieve running (and deleting heat)? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoyo13 Posted May 17, 2021 Author Share Posted May 17, 2021 6 hours ago, Gurgel said: The sand used is colder, that cools the output. The polluted dirt produced is warmer than the sand used, that is where the heat goes. No deletion. It run 1k sand for every 5 Kgwater water and Sand SHC is 0.830 so from what i have learned : If it use multiplier Liquid/débris :Water output° = 80.9 - ((0.830 * (26.7-80.9) *1/ (10kg * 4179) = 80.89 So 5k water mix 90.8°C with 1kg/s sand 26.8°C turn to 5Kg/s water 1.5C°+ 200g/s dirt 30°C ? 4 hours ago, ghkbrew said: How long have you been running this setup? Is it possible you're seeing old water coming out with new hot water going in? I just loaded your save and the pipes were in the progress of being built. When I got it setup, 80C polluted water was being converted to 80C water like expected. Do you have a save with the sieve running (and deleting heat)? I used it 20 Cycles maybe more, and ATM i did it again and result are différent, with 58.3C Pw and 16°C Sand i get 8.8°C Water. Its 1 cycle test , PW come from 2 metal raffinery. That glitch only work when i feed the water sieve with few Cold water pipes. its like it register the firt result and keep outpout at the same Temp no matter what data it get next. I added my last save. MedalTVOxygenNotIncluded20210517063955.mp4 The Happy Panopticon.sav Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 8 hours ago, ghkbrew said: How long have you been running this setup? Is it possible you're seeing old water coming out with new hot water going in? I just loaded your save and the pipes were in the progress of being built. When I got it setup, 80C polluted water was being converted to 80C water like expected. Do you have a save with the sieve running (and deleting heat)? That would explain why the water is apparently too cold. 4 hours ago, yoyo13 said: It run 1k sand for every 5 Kgwater water and Sand SHC is 0.830 so from what i have learned : If it use multiplier Liquid/débris :Water output° = 80.9 - ((0.830 * (26.7-80.9) *1/ (10kg * 4179) = 80.89 So 5k water mix 90.8°C with 1kg/s sand 26.8°C turn to 5Kg/s water 1.5C°+ 200g/s dirt 30°C ? Ah, no. In particular the output water should still be warmer than the dirt that comes out. Heat-exchange always brings two materials closer together in temperature. I think the explanation is that you have some "startup" effect here. Let it run for a while and then check again. 10 hours ago, sakura_sk said: Shouldn't it end up at 20ish degrees and not 1C water though? Yes, it should. I did not look at things carefully enough. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoyo13 Posted May 17, 2021 Author Share Posted May 17, 2021 This game is so absurd and i love it So I did a test for 5 cycles, i can confirm that beast delete massive amount of heat. I manage to cool dow 100°C water down to 2C°, as downside i got some dirt at 36°(instand of 97*C+ for a regular one), so around 2 047 710 DTU/s are removed. All needed was few segments of cold water (8 worked fine), cut it and then add hot water flow. But where that heat goes ? nowhere, just vanished! The thing is that the sieve register the first flow as the main flow and whatever follow this it will be processed like the first flow as long as it's not interrupted, damaged or if you reload the game. And even if one of those case happen it might keep cooling water with an decreased rate, step by step. For exemple when i reloaded my save, it jump at 35° (First step), the save after it was 70*C (instand of 100°C), i believe with automation it can run smothly I added my last save where he is at 70°C MedalTVOxygenNotIncluded20210517125816.mp4 Astéroïde Malade.sav Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabberworld Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 interesting, i was able todo that as well with this info Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 Ok... If you don't interrupt the flow between cold and hot water, the change of temperature in the input doesn't register to the output so it keeps outputting the temperature of the previous input. And then I broke it... It seems it works both ways: if you start inputting 90C water and then change to 5C the output stays at ~86C (20C sand) and doesn't change when the input temperature changes. So... I managed to make it output only 85C when the input is 5C Edit: It seems save-reload fixes it Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabberworld Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 42 minutes ago, sakura_sk said: Edit: It seems save-reload fixes it yes i notice that as well Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 So definitely a bug, after all. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabberworld Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 i was able automated this but it takes time and outputs allot hot water before it activates. liquid meter valve is kind off useful for this automation Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_t_p Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 Probably from the packet merging inside the sieve. Temp of the water inside is held static, when a partial packet merges into it the temps aren't averaged as they would be in the pipe network. EDIT should also work to make heat if the order of input is reversed. Hot in first, then start a cool flow. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghkbrew Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 4 hours ago, gabberworld said: interesting, i was able todo that as well with this info What does your setup look like? I can't seem to reproduce the bug. Switching between hot and cold water input with this setup doesn't seem to cause any heat deletion. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabberworld Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 2 hours ago, ghkbrew said: What does your setup look like? I can't seem to reproduce the bug. Switching between hot and cold water input with this setup doesn't seem to cause any heat deletion. filter gate set for 11 sec liquid meter valve is set for 17 kg liquid pipe thermo sensors is 40c liquid valves is set for 5000g. it takes time for activate that but when it does then it output exactly same C like that cold water is. automation is needed because even pause button can disable that Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 1 hour ago, ghkbrew said: Switching between hot and cold water input with this setup doesn't seem to cause any heat deletion. I don't think it is "heat deletion" but more of a "I'm Sieve. I decide this temperature pass now and no more ups and downs" (it has it's reasons... I don't know..) There was instances where the sieve output a fixed ~76C or 46C from a 5C polluted water. It was just stuck there and if there was no interference to the flow (either the sieve/pump stopping or save-reload) it continued outputting the same temperature. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoyo13 Posted May 17, 2021 Author Share Posted May 17, 2021 1 hour ago, gabberworld said: filter gate set for 11 sec liquid meter valve is set for 17 kg liquid pipe thermo sensors is 40c liquid valves is set for 5000g. it takes time for activate that but when it does then it output exactly same C like that cold water is. automation is needed because even pause button can disable that Damn you! i wanted make it first, but went for sleep ... Anyway, this tool alllow us to cool down Petro gen PW without effort, its cool Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghkbrew Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 7 hours ago, gabberworld said: filter gate set for 11 sec liquid meter valve is set for 17 kg liquid pipe thermo sensors is 40c liquid valves is set for 5000g. it takes time for activate that but when it does then it output exactly same C like that cold water is. Ok, I still can't get this to work. Can you post a save? Edit: nevermind, it just worked. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 3 hours ago, ghkbrew said: Edit: nevermind, it just worked. Bug magic Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabberworld Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 this seems faster, i try differed automations edited. --- neh, it only seemed faster, maybe its something also todo how much water sleve you have running at map Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoyo13 Posted May 18, 2021 Author Share Posted May 18, 2021 This is with semi automation and the first flow (cold one) must be higher than the other one (hot one), here its 10kg for 5 kg/s, i'm not yet familiar with meter valve I also got a weird bug where Pg outpout almost nothing (second file) MedalTVOxygenNotIncluded20210518145443.mp4 MedalTVOxygenNotIncluded20210518134713.mp4 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabberworld Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 15 minutes ago, yoyo13 said: i'm not yet familiar with meter valve liquid meter valve outputs the exact amount what you added in setting and then it stops till you reset it again i try with cold polluted water with small changes Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoyo13 Posted May 18, 2021 Author Share Posted May 18, 2021 Thanks, i'am too it give me headache, i found a good setup but when i reload the game it convert my cold water to hot water Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghkbrew Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 Ok, so I'm able to trigger the bug semi-reliably with this setup: Overlays: Spoiler The valves are set to 5kg for polluted water and 10kg for water. Basically I'm just swapping the inputs every 10 seconds until the output stays cold. Notes: The higher flow water seems to be necessary, but sometimes I have to drop it to 5kg to clear out then pipes the go back up to 10kg before the bug will trigger. The bug will only trigger for me when it's running at 3x speed. And dropping to 1x or 2x while the bug is occurring will stop it. This seems to indicate some sort of race condition having to do with animation frames rather than simulation steps. The sieve does have a "pre-work" animation that delays it's activation which may be the cause. Water is produced in the sieve at the appropriate temperature. But when it enters the pipe it appears at the fixed temperature. So the bug seems to be in the pipe output code, rather than the pwater conversion. I took a look at the code. The water sieve has almost no custom functionality in it. It uses generic "ElementConverter" and "ConduitDispenser" object instances. That seems to imply that the bug may be trigger-able on other machines that connect to pipes. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabberworld Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 1 hour ago, yoyo13 said: Thanks, i'am too it give me headache, i found a good setup but when i reload the game it convert my cold water to hot water its hard to setup as automation hot water can turn constant cold, cold water can turn to constant hot, it have also slow heating up and slow heating down function, also it have what comes in it goes also out 2 minutes ago, ghkbrew said: Basically I'm just swapping the inputs every 10 seconds until the output stays cold. im doing this myself as well atm Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/130031-water-sieve-heat-deletion/#findComment-1461540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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