i think scale armor needs some buff

[Echsrick]

I feel like it sould still be 80% defense at least i mean you literaly use a wood armor and put some scales on it whit pigskins too like you use 3 skins even thats i feel like a bit too much the fire risistance and that small sanity regen is not realy that good not only that enemys that hit you burn meaning they start burning the rest of the world too or if they die they drop ash so yes i think it sould be a bit better like you could get way more armor from those 3 pigskins in total

[Muzarello]

People might say that the scale armor is good enough for it's niche uses, but it should at least pay off it's crafting material, it should protect more or just deal a burning damage without setting things on fire, like Enraged D.fly fire aura. (Disclaimer, If her fire aura sets things on fire I never caught on fire while fighting her enraged, sorry in advance).

[Cheggf]

Changing scalemail's resistance from 70% to 80% would be a nerf since that would break it faster. That would not make it good as general purpose armor because the positives remain the same, niche and situational. All it would do is break the armor faster.

[Echsrick]

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Changing scalemail's resistance from 70% to 80% would be a nerf since that would break it faster. That would not make it good as general purpose armor because the positives remain the same, niche and situational. All it would do is break the armor faster.

how would that make sense that if it has more defense it breaks faster? like by this logic marble armor breaks faster then grass armor wich it dont so i still dont see how what you say makes sense like defense and durability are 2 differend things i just still cant see your logic in there

[Cheggf]

12 minutes ago, Dr.Medic said:

how would that make sense that if it has more defense it breaks faster?

Because if it redirects more damage to itself it takes more damage? What part of this is confusing to you?

12 minutes ago, Dr.Medic said:

like by this logic marble armor breaks faster then grass armor wich it dont

Marble armor has 735 durability and grass suits have 157. You should be looking at snurtle armor and marble suits instead, since they both have the same durability. And yes, the marble suit breaks waaaaaaaaaay faster than the snurtle armor. Or, you can just look at the snurtle armor itself since it can change its protection value. It loses nearly twice as much durability when you get hit inside the shell with 100% resist than outside the shell with 60% resist.

[Echsrick]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

Because if it redirects more damage to itself it takes more damage? What part of this is confusing to you?

Marble armor has 735 durability and grass suits have 157. You should be looking at snurtle armor and marble suits instead, since they both have the same durability. And yes, the marble suit breaks waaaaaaaaaay faster than the snurtle armor. Or, you can just look at the snurtle armor itself since it can change its protection value. It loses nearly twice as much durability when you get hit inside the shell with 100% resist than outside the shell with 60% resist.

well but the scale armor has more durabilty then wood armor meaning if scale armor has same 80 defense then they sould break somewhat at the same time

[Lil K]

I agree that it should have a higher defense %. But as said by @Cheggf@Cheggf, that alone wouldn't be enough. Therefore I would like too see a higher defense % and a higher durability, making the armor better as a hole. 

[Cheggf]

12 minutes ago, Dr.Medic said:

well but the scale armor has more durabilty then wood armor meaning if scale armor has same 80 defense then they sould break somewhat at the same time

Scale armor has 945 durability. The sum of its parts is 1,260 durability, plus the dragonfly scale. Scale armor is not used very much because it is expensive & its upsides either almost always do nothing (Fire immunity) or are usually actively detrimental because of how destructive they are to both the loot from the mob and the world around you (Burning attackers). Giving scale mail 80% protection would do nothing to make it more useful outside of the situations that it's currently useful in, but it would make it less useful in the situations it is useful in because you're making it break faster.

Nobody would start wearing expensive armor that sets everything on fire just because it suddenly provides the same protection value as a log suit.

[Echsrick]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

Scale armor has 945 durability. The sum of its parts is 1,260 durability, plus the dragonfly scale. Scale armor is not used very much because it is expensive & its upsides either almost always do nothing (Fire immunity) or are usually actively detrimental because of how destructive they are to both the loot from the mob and the world around you (Burning attackers). Giving scale mail 80% protection would do nothing to make it more useful outside of the situations that it's currently useful in, but it would make it less useful in the situations it is useful in because you're making it break faster.

Nobody would start wearing expensive armor that sets everything on fire just because it suddenly provides the same protection value as a log suit.

well i dit say it sould be better in general not just more defense

[Owlrust]

Honestly I think fire needs a rework in general. This as well as the fire staff would be awesome items to use, but fire is so backhanded in its combative mechanics that hardly anyone utilizes it. The only ideas I came up with for a scalemail rework are a little lackluster without using fire directly, but here they are:

• Being damaged charges the suit similar to obsidian armor and creates a ring of light while also heating up the player.
• Being hit by an enemy causes the suit to fire an AoE heat wave (non-flammable) not unlike the mechanics of the Bramble Husk.
• The armor gives the player an internal armor of a flat 30% (not to be stacked with garlic powder or Wigfrid's passive perk)

Each are their own separate ideas, not trying to propose that it would have all 3, just one.

[HowlVoid]

18 hours ago, Owlrus said:

Honestly I think fire needs a rework in general. This as well as the fire staff would be awesome items to use, but fire is so backhanded in its combative mechanics that hardly anyone utilizes it.

I find that this is true mostly because people don't know their useful applications. The firestaff helps chip beequees hp from a distance, you can use it to panic hounds in a hound wave and bishops. As a long range fire inducing utility item it does its job. For long range damage you have the electric dart and the blow dart.

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The only ideas I came up with for a scalemail rework are a little lackluster without using fire directly, but here they are:

• Being damaged charges the suit similar to obsidian armor and creates a ring of light while also heating up the player.

Armors that need you take damage in order to activate an ability wouldn't be good in dst. Unless that ability is to prevent damage completely or heal the user. With how kiting works its usually better to avoid damage completely.

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• Being hit by an enemy causes the suit to fire an AoE heat wave (non-flammable) not unlike the mechanics of the Bramble Husk.

I can assure you the Bramble husk has very limited uses. Needing an item to consume durability in order to function and it being boss loot will not warrant use. Especially because the bramble husk already exists

18 hours ago, Owlrus said:

The armor gives the player an internal armor of a flat 30% (not to be stacked with garlic powder or Wigfrid's passive perk)

Healing and other armors are very plentiful though so I don't think this will do very much to buff it. 

How about allowing the armor to regenerate durability when inside a fire/near a heat source? Not enough that it makes it practical in battle but as an every day use armor or to reinforce its already present niche. 

When I light my bee hives on fire very rarely I will get stung and deplete my precious scale mail. So how about letting it regenerate at about 1% a minute? You can leave numerous scale mails at a furnace and have them be slowly regenerated. With its low protection this can be a good damage sponge for better gear like crowns. Pig helmets are already super easy to farm so to me it makes sense for boss armor.

[Masked Koopa]

Bramble husk is very helpful vs enemy swarms since it prevents stunlocks. I can 100% see the application in making it more akin to bramble husk, especially since wormwood is a paid character and therefore not everyone can swap to him to make them. It makes shadow splumonkies and hounds a lot faster to deal with, as well as tentipillars and spiders to a lesser extent. It can even be helpful for bee queen.

[HowlVoid]

13 hours ago, Masked Koopa said:

Bramble husk is very helpful vs enemy swarms since it prevents stunlocks.

This would make it a crutch item, meaning that as the players skill level increases the more obsolete the item becomes. Also understand some characters can only obtain one scale per a 27500 hp boss early game only for it to have a niche for spiders and hounds. When hounds become an actual threat, by then it may become irrelevant since a player could already have a number of hound wave defenses. 

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I can 100% see the application in making it more akin to bramble husk, especially since wormwood is a paid character and therefore not everyone can swap to him to make them.

Many have suggested for the cookie cutter helmet to have this ability. To me that makes more sense given its very niche ability. The biggest perks to the bramble husk is its ability to prevent cactus and bramble trap damage and if you were to add that, well it would be unfair to the character. Like giving everyone their personal bernie. 

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It makes shadow splumonkies

Have you tested this by chance? With a big enough horde they will straight up murder you. There are better ways to farm nightmare fuel. 

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and hounds a lot faster

I would also like to point out that Wormwood is weaveable. A good hound defense is to place 3 bramble traps and 1 husk in a bundle for hound defense on the go. The combined damage is far more beneficial than taking tons of damage. 

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to deal with, as well as tentipillars

They can be sidestepped, burned alive, and automated with a houndious. 

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and spiders to a lesser extent. It can even be helpful for bee queen.

Bee queen will deal you so much damage that its not worth it. Far better strategy is to wear a marble suit or your scale mail will be gone in seconds.

I have hundreds of hours with Wormwood and can come with better workarounds for what the husk can accomplish. Dont make the scale mail, a niche item, more niche than it already is. 

Giving the scale mail a unique ability to regen its durability will make it far more useful. I can see dragonfly as a phoenix type creature and its extra-adorable larvae can eat ash to heal itself. 1% a minute regen will mean multiple scalemails will still be needed, keeping the boss as a worthy kill.

[W0l0l0]

17 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

The firestaff helps chip beequees hp from a distance, you can use it to panic hounds in a hound wave and bishops. As a long range fire inducing utility item it does its job. For long range damage you have the electric dart and the blow dart.

Whilst I will agree that the uses for fire may be underrated (fire and ice staff can also be used for farming snurtle shells which is awesome!), setting dogs on fire is risky (especially since you can just use the ice staff instead), and the beequeen is kinda niche. I agree with pretty much everything else you've said on this thread, but I have to stand by the statement that fire is kinda meh, it could do with at least a little bit of a tweak. 

[HowlVoid]

10 minutes ago, W0l0l0 said:

Whilst I will agree that the uses for fire may be underrated (fire and ice staff can also be used for farming snurtle shells which is awesome!), setting dogs on fire is risky (especially since you can just use the ice staff instead), and the beequeen is kinda niche. I agree with pretty much everything else you've said on this thread, but I have to stand by the statement that fire is kinda meh, it could do with at least a little bit of a tweak. 

I understand what you mean, but I believe that may be more of an issue with how fire works overall and not the firestaff. The hound thing is more of a act out of desperation lol.

It may work for Willow though if you don't care a about the loot since an enemy on fire makes it hard for other mobs to come close, while she is immune.

I've said before that if the devs really wanted to buff fire it can be done via fire tick damage stacking. Make the flame of the firestaff unique (magic flame) from that of natural fire. This would allow someone to get two ticks, one from a fire dart and one from the fire staff making both items relevant at the same time rather than one or the other. Make the flames combined turn the fire purple or something to notify the player.

That is if they want to

[W0l0l0]

21 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

*Text

Oh yeah that's what I meant, apologies for any confusion.

I agree, stuff like lowering the fire staff cost (somehow), wouldn't help, fire needs to work differently.

There's a lot of ways to do it, but I think the general approach I'd go for is making things harder to ignite and spread (depending on the season, humidity, wetness), but with more damage and burn duration.

Having items and trees be generally harder to ignite would slow griefers, indirectly buff the campfire (since setting a tree on fire would take more time), and prevent massive wildfires from happening so easily. There's obviously more to say in term of mechanics but that'd be the general approach I'd personally go for.