About the moon...

[Apotemis]

The forces of the moon and the darkness really have a few things in common. They have their armies (gestalts, and shadow creatures), they have their champions (the alter guardian and the fuelweaver) and... I've been wondering, what if there is actually a throne on the moon?

 

[ModsterMash]

Exactly what I've been thinking for a long time. Chess is a huge motif in DS, so why wouldn't there be 2 thrones?

I'd like to think Wagstaff is either on the moon throne, or is pursuing it. Much to think about, regarding all that. I am very pleased that my old theories are holding up so far.

[QuartzBeam]

Wagstaff cannot possibly be on the moon "throne", because this entire beta is about him hatching a plan to steal the moon's power. He wouldn't be doing that if he was the Lunar King or whatever.

Not to mention, the moon is a living eldritch deity called Alter, so it's probably too powerful for any mortal person to control. (Which is also why whoever sits on the Nightmare Throne is, ultimately, a pawn to the deities that turned the Ancients into Shadow Creatures.)

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

Wagstaff cannot possibly be on the moon "throne", because this entire beta is about him hatching a plan to steal the moon's power. He wouldn't be doing that if he was the Lunar King or whatever.

Not to mention, the moon is a living eldritch deity called Alter, so it's probably too powerful for any mortal person to control. (Which is also why whoever sits on the Nightmare Throne is, ultimately, a pawn to the deities that turned the Ancients into Shadow Creatures.)

just to add, as you said, shadows are victims of the "nightmere fuel entity" meanwhile gestals are the way the "moon" communicates with mortals

[QuartzBeam]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

just to add, as you said, shadows are victims of the "nightmere fuel entity" meanwhile gestals are the way the "moon" communicates with mortals

Oh, yeah. I mean, the Shadow Creatures probably don't have any individuality left, but at least they used to be individuals back when they were the Ancients. Gestalts, meanwhile, are simply extensions of Alter; you could probably liken them to limbs.

[HowlVoid]

50 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

Wagstaff cannot possibly be on the moon "throne", because this entire beta is about him hatching a plan to steal the moon's power. He wouldn't be doing that if he was the Lunar King or whatever.

Not to mention, the moon is a living eldritch deity called Alter, so it's probably too powerful for any mortal person to control. (Which is also why whoever sits on the Nightmare Throne is, ultimately, a pawn to the deities that turned the Ancients into Shadow Creatures.)

Isn't most of that assumptions? People have been saying the moon is an entity but we don't have any concrete proof of that. We are not even sure if "they" means a singular being or its used as a plural.

People also keep claiming that Charlie has the atrium but I couldn't find any proof.

[QuartzBeam]

12 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Isn't most of that assumptions? People have been saying the moon is an entity but we don't have any concrete proof of that. We are not even sure if "they" means a singular being or its used as a plural.

People also keep claiming that Charlie has the atrium but I couldn't find any proof.

The moon being an entity is more or less confirmed by the fact that it awakens in this very beta. The animation is called alterawaken or something, the clock shows the moon breaking open to reveal a glowing eye and several characters comment that they are being watched when they examine the Glassed Moon Dial.

[HowlVoid]

31 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

The moon being an entity is more or less confirmed by the fact that it awakens in this very beta. The animation is called alterawaken or something, the clock shows the moon breaking open to reveal a glowing eye and several characters comment that they are being watched when they examine the Glassed Moon Dial.

Then what is the lunar island, a piece of its body? It does not seem to be organic in any way shape or form. Is it (the moon) just a bigger version of the champion? That sounds a bit odd. Why did it break of? I think the a piece of the moon falling is a big hint we arent paying enough attention to.

Edit: its possible doing the lunar event siphoned energy from the moon causing to break.

Edit 2: I still dont think the moon is "alive" something tells me we are missing valuable information we either missed or haven't gotten yet. Its possible the moon is a vessel running on gems. Look at green gems in the ruins compared to the gem wormwood has. He was brought to life because his gem wasn't depleted! The moon is a giant ship! The champion was a hint, a piece of the moon breaking off is a hint, wagstaff is a hint and Wormwood is a hint. Wait...Hmm... I might be on to something...

Nah ignore me, Im crazy.

 

[ModsterMash]

3 hours ago, QuartzBeam said:

Wagstaff cannot possibly be on the moon "throne", because this entire beta is about him hatching a plan to steal the moon's power. He wouldn't be doing that if he was the Lunar King or whatever.

Not to mention, the moon is a living eldritch deity called Alter, so it's probably too powerful for any mortal person to control. (Which is also why whoever sits on the Nightmare Throne is, ultimately, a pawn to the deities that turned the Ancients into Shadow Creatures.)

Heh, well Wagstaff doesn't have to necessarily be on the moon, to me he's still acting as if he's on a throne. But that's too off topic for this thread.

Originally I got the idea about a second throne last year from the Metheus Puzzles murals, specifically the last one where the scepter wielding figure is shown sitting on a throne that does not look like the Nightmare Throne.

2 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

We are not even sure if "they" means a singular being or its used as a plural.

Why not both?

2 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Why did it break of? I think the a piece of the moon falling is a big hint we arent paying enough attention to.

It's implied that Charlie was behind this, but yeah we still don't know how or why. Maybe they are keeping full details under wraps for a reason.

[HowlVoid]

8 minutes ago, ModsterMash said:

Heh, well Wagstaff doesn't have to necessarily be on the moon, to me he's still acting as if he's on a throne. But that's too off topic for this thread.

Nobody knows where Wagstaff is. I was starting to wonder if the person who got sucked in before Winona even WAS Wagstaff.

8 minutes ago, ModsterMash said:

Originally I got the idea about a second throne last year from the Metheus Puzzles murals, specifically the last one where the scepter wielding figure is shown sitting on a throne that does not look like the Nightmare Throne.

I like this theory.

8 minutes ago, ModsterMash said:

Why not both?

Will if there is more than one that kind of implies both. A group and a leader.

8 minutes ago, ModsterMash said:

It's implied that Charlie was behind this, but yeah we still don't know how or why. Maybe they are keeping full details under wraps for a reason.

Source? If its from the Forgotten Knoledge trailer I feel like a lot of people jumped to conclusion from her just smiling. People were even saying that she just got back from killing fuelweaver which I think is silly to get from just 1 short.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

12 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I was starting to wonder if the person who got sucked in before Winona even WAS Wagstaff.

i think was confirmed by a klei worker that he was wagstaff. Idk where i read it but was mentioned few times in the forum

i might be wrong, but i think it was from a klei stream

[ModsterMash]

16 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Will if there is more than one that kind of implies both. A group and a leader.

A group can also be the leader in multiple forms. That's what I think the Gestalts are, anyway. Like a gestalt intelligence.

5 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i think was confirmed by a klei worker that he was wagstaff. Idk where i read it but was mentioned few times in the forum

i might be wrong, but i think it was from a klei stream

It was the Jeff Agala himself who confirmed this on a post he made on his Tumblr last year. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

10 minutes ago, ModsterMash said:

A group can also be the leader in multiple forms. That's what I think the Gestalts are, anyway. Like a gestalt intelligence.

 

yep, it totally looks like a hive mind

11 minutes ago, ModsterMash said:

It was the Jeff Agala himself who confirmed this on a post he made on his Tumblr last year. 

mah shitty memory

[-Variant]

10 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Then what is the lunar island, a piece of its body? It does not seem to be organic in any way shape or form.

The island is organic and yes, actually. Rather so a shell piece.
Alter, the Moon's name, hatches and reveals itself in said beta.

[HowlVoid]

Ah ok. How is it organic? 

[-Variant]

3 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Ah ok. How is it organic? 

There were other points I recall but this instantly springs to mind.

[HowlVoid]

4 minutes ago, -Variant said:

There were other points I recall but this instantly springs to mind.

I wouldn't take a character's quote as solid evidence. They tend to make points from their point of view which end up being heavily biased. Please let me know your other points if you can remember them. Not that don't believe you, the structure of the champion itself suggests it is not simply made up of a mineral.

[WebberMain]

15 hours ago, Apotemis said:

The forces of the moon and the darkness really have a few things in common. They have their armies (gestalts, and shadow creatures), they have their champions (the alter guardian and the fuelweaver) and... I've been wondering, what if there is actually a throne on the moon?

 

The Fuelreaver isn´t really their champion.In fact,he is against the Shadows.He uses Their power to push his own agenda,but he´s not serving Them anymore.

 

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

I wouldn't take a character's quote as solid evidence. They tend to make points from their point of view which end up being heavily biased. Please let me know your other points if you can remember them. Not that don't believe you, the structure of the champion itself suggests it is not simply made up of a mineral.

I don´t know mate. A quote of the propably smartest playable character who has a thing for biology,the fact that the Moon whispers to you trough gestalts/the crown.The giant eye that is moving and looking around.All of this seems obvious to me that the Moon is really a living thing

 

[HowlVoid]

7 hours ago, WebberMain said:

I don´t know mate. A quote of the propably smartest playable character who has a thing for biology,the fact that the Moon whispers to you trough gestalts/the crown.The giant eye that is moving and looking around.All of this seems obvious to me that the Moon is really a living thing

 

This isn't the first time a character has been wrong. Wickerbottom doesn't exist, she is a character. The quotes are written by Klei and sometimes they make mistakes and sometimes they may try to deceive you. Not saying that the moon isn't alive at this point though, just making a point about character quotes. 

[a bin of cake]

On the topic of the moon being organic;

if the moon was organic, then technically wouldn't WX-78 be repulsed by the moon, too? We know based on their quotes that they for some reason seem to admire the moon and anything lunar-related, while constantly hating on anything considered "organic." 

Quote

They even say that the moon is "inorganic." It seems between characters, there are discrepancies regarding whether the moon is "organic" or not. Sure, it appears to be living, but maybe it's just not organic material...?

EDIT: Just thought of something, if my memory serves me well, someone on the forums mentioned that (update beta spoiler)

Spoiler

Wortox's quote upon examining the Celestial Champion mentions that the boss has no soul.

Soo, maybe something "organic," at least to WX-78, is something that has a soul (that would make sense actually, because WX-78 still considers the lunar moths to be inferior, despite being lunar-related), something naturally manifested by something bearing a soul, or both.