Vanila planetoid - how should it look?

[Sasza22]

So now that we got the vanilla planetoid i think we can use a separate thread to discuss how should it look and what should it include. As for now it has the basic terra biomes plus oil biome so pretty much the old vanilla experience with afew hiccups due to unfinished world generation. It includes (or should) 2 cold steam vents and 1 nat gas geyser as well as a 50% chance for a second one or a chlorine vent instead. To provide the base game experience it needs more randomized geysers so we can get the cool slush more reliably for people that can`t stand hot water ( @babba).

Now the important things added in the dlc that could be in as well. I`d like to see what you think about those:

1. Radioactive biome. - To be able to build basically everything without space travel we could use that one on the base asteroid. Do you think it should be there? Where would you put it? Next to oil or close to space?

2. Desert biome. - It`s important as it allows for early sucrose for the easiest engine setup. Also provides easy to farm food. With a chance for a sulfur geyser and lots of oil it should work fine for taming sweetles as well.

3. Teleporter. - This one is controversial. With all the resources in one place we don`t really need it on the base asteroid. But it`s an important piece of Gravitas tech that we shouldn`t just outright remove. Maybe in th vanila cluster it should connect the 2 close planetoids?

4. Meteors. - Should those things make a comeback?

Second thing is the close planetoids. The far ones should remain the same as they are a source of rare resources but what about the close ones? With oil in our base readily avaiable those should just host the missing biomes (the 2 alternate starts and biomes not generated in our base like the tidal biome). There is no reason for one of them to have oil reserves. Instead i think they should have abundant metal geysers and lots of hard to renew resources that we might run out of in our base like algae, slime, bleach stone, uranium, diamond, lead metal ores. Since we want our base to be the core base with all the stuff there the other planetoids dont necessarily have to be sustainable bases but more like mining colonies instead but it should be possible to make them sustainable via random or guaranteed geysers imo.

[babba]

DLC Terra Classic, my input:

> At least 1x -10 Celsius geyser. I would love 2x cold ...The 2nd cold fluid spawn could be by chance, so people could get excited by winning in the lottery, exchanging their seed numbers. The total of spawned water/pwater/swater/brine should be 4-6 geysers spawns IMHO, I`m tired of being thirsty in the game. A variety of temperature ranges is a must, from cold, medium to hot.

> Please spawn the steam geyser ( 110 Celsius ) far away from the player, to avoid instant player suicide. The 110 Celsius is good for players trying to get a steam turbine/engine working. Would be perfect if a metal volcano can spawn in tandem with the steam geyser.

> Uranium ideas: Either uranium mining tiles by seed chance "Winning in the spawn lottery", or supply via radioactive biome or via radioactive regolith

> Suits: This could be "Winning in the spawn lottery", either the map seed gets mining lead for radiation suits or plants to make exosuits. However, one of the suit types should be guaranteed and made possible in the map.

> Steel/Plastic is a must. 1x guaranteed oil source + 10 tons of fossil mining tiles + 12 crabs hopping around..either players can tame or kill them for steel.

> Water: Spawn 100 tiles water minimum at game start, additional pwater/brine/swater is always welcome

> Ice: Spawn 200 ice tiles minimum

> AETN spawn guaranteed

> 8 Wheezies + 50 tons phosporite

> Basic metal volcanos. The refined metal spawn types can be randomized, so that please get excited about their refined metal spawn seed number finds

> Metal ores: Make lots of ore mining possible.

> Dirt: +200 tons

> Coal +200 tons

> Sand: +200 tons

> Diamond: +10 tons

> Algae: Algae is great and simple to use in rockets/player base for oxygen. Spawn +200 tons algae/slime in the map.

> Teleporter on/off: Players should have the option to switch the spawning off before they start the world. The 2nd asteroid can still be reached via rockets.

> Space Intro: Place one ready-to-go, fully installed sugar rocket to the map top + 50 ton sucrose mining tiles. Players can hop in and lift off for the first time or deconstruct the whole thing. Make it an old rocket ruin, its a kind of rocket tutorial for quick success and that people understand how space journeys work.

> Plants: At least 6 arbor tree seeds + a wide variety of all kind of food seeds. Be excessive with seed variety, its the easy map.

> Critters: I don`t do critters, partly because of performance and space requirement reasons. So I`m not the right person for critter input ( besides my steel crabs mentioned earlier ).

Thanks for starting this @Sasza22 A lot of other things I will go along with, I have listed what I would find important as a big base builder. @Ipsquiggle

[goboking]

I'll use vanilla's Terra as an example of how I'd like to see large asteroids implemented in Spaced Out.

The following biomes are native to Terra:

• Sandstone (starting biome)
• Cold
• Slime
• Caustic
• Tidepool
• Oil
• Magma
• Space

In vanilla, this means certain resources must be obtained from space.  And depending on the planets rolled, some resources may not be available at all. 

I'd like to see Spaced Out make the biomes not native to Terra into smaller asteroids.  So the Forest and Rust biomes, as well as Spaced Out's Swamp, Wasteland, and Irradiated Biomes could all be destinations we travel too if we want to get our hands on flora, fauna, and materials not available on Terra.

Geysers should remain more or less how they are in vanilla, meaning we can become fully sustainable without space flight if we so choose.  But end-game materials should be restricted to the asteroids further from Terra to incentive space travel for those who want to construct end-game builds.

I'd like to see meteors either restricted to outlying asteroids, or meteor showers on Terra replaced by an occasional, lone meteor strike.

The same approach I've posted for Terra could be repeated for each of vanilla's worlds, and a few new worlds with Spaced Out's biomes could be created so people can experience the biomes from the start of a game.

[Unfawkable]

I'm in the camp that the Vanilla asteroid shouldn't have Oil biome and should definitely keep the teleporter but to make it a must to use this teleporter for something. This used to be the Oil Biome, and I hope this either gets reverted, or that you get given just very small quantities of Oil on your Vanilla asteroid (No Oil well).

I like the Desert Biome idea as long as it doesn't spawn next to the starting Biome, the heat management would be a pain that early on. 

[Sasza22]

20 hours ago, goboking said:

• Sandstone (starting biome)
• Cold
• Slime
• Caustic
• Tidepool
• Oil
• Magma
• Space

Those biomes are native to vanilla Terra. But imo to keep the vanilla experience we need the extra resources from the desert and radiated biomes. Desert for sucrose and sulfur plus sweetles and grubfuit. Radiated so that you can build the reactor without space travel. But that said i think uranium should be limited so that you`d need to go to space to get more of it.

As for the desert biome tempereature, it`s close to the caustic biome and since that isn`t too bad when it spawns close the desrt shouldn`t be either.

Stuff like arbor trees or plug slugs will be avaialble from the nearby asteroids. Lead usually spawns in the oil biome. What else? I guess we could eventually get the special start options like Rime or Volcanea but i thhink they should add similar settings for the space out versions first.

[goboking]

33 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

Those biomes are native to vanilla Terra. But imo to keep the vanilla experience we need the extra resources from the desert and radiated biomes. Desert for sucrose and sulfur plus sweetles and grubfuit. Radiated so that you can build the reactor without space travel. But that said i think uranium should be limited so that you`d need to go to space to get more of it.

 

21 hours ago, goboking said:

I'd like to see Spaced Out make the biomes not native to Terra into smaller asteroids.  So the Forest and Rust biomes, as well as Spaced Out's Swamp, Wasteland, and Irradiated Biomes could all be destinations we travel too if we want to get our hands on flora, fauna, and materials not available on Terra.

My reasoning is this: in vanilla, we couldn't have arbor trees or pips or isoresin on Terra without traveling to space.  Following that precedent, I don't see why requiring space missions to obtain sweetles and grubfruit and uranium would break the vanilla experience.

[Sasza22]

8 minutes ago, goboking said:

I don't see why requiring space missions to obtain sweetles and grubfruit and uranium would break the vanilla experience

My thinking is that sweetles and more importantly sucrose is something you want before spaceflight as it allows for low tier rockets. Getting that resource from space is kinda redundant as you already have a working rocket at that point. It`s different from pips that aren`t tied to the tech tree that heavily. Only thing you miss is ethanol and nosh beans which could be tied to a different asteroid together or be provided in a different start setting.

As for uranium it`s about the research reactor being available before or after space. I think it can work both ways but since radiation is a core concept now it feels like it should be possible to get the needed resources home in a limited quantity. But i wouldn`t oppose if it was locked to one of the close planetoids. My thinking is that the close planetoids in the vanilla setting should provide supplement resources so you can go there to get extra stuff but you don`t have to rely on them to get necceasry stuff like in the spaced out setting.

Not like it`s breaking the experience though. It`s just the way i think it should differentiate between the modes.

[crbd115]

So IMO I would prefer it to be the same as the vanilla asteroid is currently in the base game. I think if they choose to keep the teleporters in then put the sulfur/desert biome on the second asteroid that you teleport to. If they choose to get rid of it (which I personally think makes more sense if oil is on the starting planetoid) then put the sulfur/desert biome on the starting planetoid. Sugar is meant to be an alternative to the C02 rocket, they are both just options for the early game rockets so they should be available in the early game. On the teleporter situation I think with how big this map is the teleporter is not necessary since the dlc uses it as an extension of the starting planetoid almost making it one big map with just a subdivide between. The 2 closest planetoids can be for industrial resources but should also be mostly self sustainable for duplicant bases. The outer asteroids is where I would prefer to set up temporary bases while I set up the resource collection system. Then when that's finished I only set foot on that planet when landing rockets to take away resources or to fix something that breaks.

Another reason I would favor having the sulfur/desert biome on the starting planetoid is just more variety. Just as an example this is the current start on the current version. I just think it would be a little more interesting with the another biome for variety sake but I'm ok with whatever they choose.

[goboking]

21 hours ago, crbd115 said:

Another reason I would favor having the sulfur/desert biome on the starting planetoid is just more variety. Just as an example this is the current start on the current version. I just think it would be a little more interesting with the another biome for variety sake but I'm ok with whatever they choose.

I think the absence of sugar isn't too big a deal.  Some starting asteroids will lack various resources (Verdante has no wheezeworts for cooling/radiation, Terra has no arbor trees for ethanol, etc).  Whatever a starting world is missing could be placed on the nearest asteroid, which should be reachable via Carbon Dioxide Engines.

So in Terra's case, flying to the nearest asteroid to snag a few grubfruit seeds and sweetle eggs doesn't seem too big a hurdle for those who want to power their rockets with sugar.

[crbd115]

10 minutes ago, goboking said:

I think the absence of sugar isn't too big a deal.  Some starting asteroids will lack various resources (Verdante has no wheezeworts for cooling/radiation, Terra has no arbor trees for ethanol, etc).  Whatever a starting world is missing could be placed on the nearest asteroid, which should be reachable via Carbon Dioxide Engines.

So in Terra's case, flying to the nearest asteroid to snag a few grubfruit seeds and sweetle eggs doesn't seem too big a hurdle for those who want to power their rockets with sugar.

I mean yes and no. The current asteroid is based off the sandstone start, and I'm sure verdante would be similar to its vanilla version, but the sulfur biome is a new biome with designed with a different setting. so it's difficult to compare with vanilla and it has a early game focused design. I don't mind having to fly over to get it but by that time I would probably just move on to the next tier of rockets anyway and not bother. 
Also in the dlc currently despite whether you pick the swamp start or the sandstone start you get the sulfur biome. I haven't played or checked the forest start yet.

Well now I wasn't expecting this. They added the uranium biome to the terra map. I suppose if people really don't want to use space until they need niobium or fullerene then this makes sense.

Oh didnt even notice the sulfur biome was added, lol just zoomed and and screenshotted. They didnt mention that in the patch notes did they?

[crbd115]

Also this is all the planetoids for the vanilla version. I think this makes some sense since its a bigger starting map.

the teleporters on the base map now go to the closest planetoid which is the radiation one.

[goboking]

2 hours ago, crbd115 said:

Oh didnt even notice the sulfur biome was added, lol just zoomed and and screenshotted.

Yeah, at a glance it's pretty hard to tell the tidepool biome from the wasteland one.  I still say they should make the wasteland biome redder (think surface of Mars) and less pink to make the two more distinctive.