The TRAGEDY of Wigfrid and the ornery beefalo

[Friendly Grass]

Ornery is a beefalo tendency that specializes in battle. Wigfrid is playing a Valkyrie warrior (EDIT: her view of one) that specializes in battle. Vikings (EDIT: her view of them) often go to battle on mounts. So which character do you think should fit best with an ornery, war saddled beefalo? Wigfrid or, I don't know, a nihilistic 8 year old girl?

Here's what Klei thinks:

Spoiler

EDIT: If you didn't catch it we see Wigfrid riding a war saddled ornery beefalo at 0:51

Oh? Wigfrid? How interesting. Here's a list of perks Wigfrid loses while on a beefalo:

• Battle helms and battle spears
• Damage modifier
• Damage resistance
• Life steal
• Heartrending ballad and weaponized warble

Here's a list of perks Wigfrid keeps while on a beefalo:

• Fireproof falsetto
• Sanity songs

Here's a list of perks Wigfrid gains while on a beefalo:

 

Here's a list of some synergies Wigfrid could have with a beefalo I've came up with. I obviously don't want all of these to be implemented, 1 or 2 is perfect. But I would be ecstatic if any of these, or anything like any of these, were in the game.

• Wigfrid keeps her damage modifier on a beefalo
• Wigfrid keeps her damage resistance on a beefalo
• The heartrending ballad heals mounted beefalo
• Wigfrid splits damage taken with her beefalo
• Wigfrid-only beefalo tendency with special perks
• I had some other ideas that I've now forgotten
• The list was much longer in my head

 

I'd like to clarify I'm aware rider beefalo exist. It's just that I absolutely hate this concept thematically for Wigfrid. What kind of warrior rides to battle, and then proceeds to dismount from their grand steed before engaging in combat? I'm sure Wigfrid didn't do this is in her performances.

[HowlVoid]

 

A lot of people are against it. I feel the same way you do, but for some people Wendy's damage makes sense but Wigfrid's doesn't. People make claims that is doesn't make sense from a "realistic" point of view but then argue that a dead girls ghost increasing your damage somehow makes sense. 

The damage multiplier affecting a beefalo can be easily explained with Wigfrid having greater control of the beef. Her power is a placebo from her "acting", so if she believes she is a Valkarye on a powerful Pegasus why wouldn't the damage modifier transfer?

 

[GelatinousCube]

Couldn't agree more, currently pretty much every character except Wig benefits from raising and using a beefalo, silly that she is the odd one out.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 hours ago, Friendly Grass said:

The heartrending ballad heals mounted beefalo

this is the only one who has sense

i dont see why damage steroids should affect beefalos. Imagine a beefalo doing x6 damage just because pikawolfgang is riding it

1 hour ago, GelatinousCube said:

Couldn't agree more, currently pretty much every character except Wig benefits from raising and using a beefalo, silly that she is the odd one out.

wolfgang and her can benefit from taming and using another tendency like the speedy one

2 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

A lot of people are against it. I feel the same way you do, but for some people Wendy's damage makes sense but Wigfrid's doesn't.

because wendy's comes from a debuff from abigail that affects the enemy, like the typical armor debuff in rpg games so it isnt a damage buff atached to the character meanwhile wigfrid's is from her "battle skills" which has no sense to be transfered to her beefalo like has no sense to have a beefalo being "stronger" just because a strong man have eat a meat stew, is the character who is stronger not the beefalo

[HowlVoid]

48 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i dont see why damage steroids should affect beefalos. Imagine a beefalo doing x6 damage just because pikawolfgang is riding it

Wigfrid perk are not steroids, they are a placebo derived from her "acting". This compels her to exceed beyond what a normal person would be able to accomplish. And I don't know why anyone brings up "Sense", of all things into consideration. Boats are affected by speed modifiers for gods sake! This game never had any "sense" thought into it when it was made, its a video game!

Quote

wolfgang and her can benefit from taming and using another tendency like the speedy one

That's not a reason for a balance change. Balance changes should take into consideration how things are affected across the board. One character keeping her damage perks but not another when enacting on the same mechanics does not make sense from a balance perspective. 

Quote

because wendy's comes from a debuff from abigail that affects the enemy, like the typical armor debuff in rpg games so it isnt a damage buff atached to the character meanwhile wigfrid's is from her "battle skills" which has no sense to be transfered to her beefalo like has no sense to have a beefalo being "stronger" just because a strong man have eat a meat stew, is the character who is stronger not the beefalo

A war horse will not perform similarly when controlled by a civilian vs a combat veteran. Horses can be influenced by a riders emotions and can falter if its jokey is also hesitant. Wigfrid shows no mercy in combat and is ready to die at the hands of the enemy because she knows she will be feasting in the halls of Valhalla. She probably thinks her trusty steed is also ready to die with her, so it makes sense she would use riskier tactics. Rather than doing a "safe" horn blown from as far as the horn can reach, which she would allow herself an opening to evade, she would probably skewer the enemy straight through its torso and spread its entrails all over the constant. In real life this applies. A war veteran will run over an enemy and use the horses body to bludgeon, paying no mind to the horse being injured in the process. A war veteran does not hesitate. 

There, I made an explanation that makes sense. As for Wolfgang, yeah, I got nothing.

[Friendly Grass]

44 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

this is the only one who has sense

i dont see why damage steroids should affect beefalos. Imagine a beefalo doing x6 damage just because pikawolfgang is riding it

I never said anything about Wolfgang.

 

44 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

wolfgang and her can benefit from taming and using another tendency like the speedy one

I already explained this. The whole point of why I want this change is because it makes sense for Wigfrid to be at least a little stronger than Wes on an ornery beefalo. That’s why klei put Wigfrid on the war beefalo in that short. And I know not every game mechanic has to fit perfectly thematically, but I find this to be a pretty big deal and very significant. And in terms of personal enjoyment, Wigfrid use to be one of my favorite characters but she’s not as fun for me now that she got the short end of the stick with farming content and beefalo content.

7 hours ago, Friendly Grass said:

I'd like to clarify I'm aware rider beefalo exist. It's just that I absolutely hate this concept thematically for Wigfrid. What kind of warrior rides to battle, and then proceeds to dismount from their grand steed before engaging in combat? I'm sure Wigfrid didn't do this is in her performances.

 

Is there something I’m missing? Is it so abhorrent to let Wigfrid’s damage bonus apply to beefalo but not Wolfgang’s?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

16 hours ago, Friendly Grass said:

What kind of warrior rides to battle, and then proceeds to dismount from their grand steed before engaging in combat? I'm sure Wigfrid didn't do this is in her performances

Vikings did this actually

They mount horses to the battle but didnt fought riding them

[chirsg]

She could perhaps don a beefalo with it's own armor. Why the hell not? It would be a step in an interesting direction given how unnecessary her songs have been. 

I'd welcome that with open arms. Or better yet, give wigfrid a chariot she can strap 2 voltgoats to like in norse mythology like what thor did. 

[GelatinousCube]

21 minutes ago, chirsg said:

She could perhaps don a beefalo with it's own armor. Why the hell not? It would be a step in an interesting direction given how unnecessary her songs have been. 

I'd welcome that with open arms. Or better yet, give wigfrid a chariot she can strap 2 voltgoats to like in norse mythology like what thor did. 

I didn't know how much I needed a volt goat mount/chariot until now.. thanks! =p

When a volt goat is charged doesn't her quote refer to it as a unicorn?

[Friendly Grass]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Vikings did this actually

They mount horses to the battle but didnt fought riding them

Okay you got me, that’s historically correct. BUT, that’s just part of a bunch of other misportrayals of Vikings we have. Also I think Valkyrie did kinda?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

33 minutes ago, Friendly Grass said:

Okay you got me, that’s historically correct. BUT, that’s just part of a bunch of other misportrayals of Vikings we have. Also I think Valkyrie did kinda?

Im not an history expert but as far as i know,  valkiries doesnt even existed, they were some kind of "viking warrior angels" in their mythology

From the perspective, that i didnt considere when i though about character damage steroids, of she being better at riding could have sense but isnt like she needs more buffs and ornery beefalo is already pretty strong (hp regen and good damage and speed without wasting gear) even if she have more dps fighting by herself

[Friendly Grass]

14 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

they were some kind of "viking warrior angels" in their mithology

Yeah that’s why I said “kinda”

15 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

From the perspective, that i didnt considere when i though about character damage steroids, of she being better at riding could have sense but isnt like she needs more buffs and ornery beefalo is already pretty strong even if she have more dps fighting by herself

Currently, Wigfrid turns into a wilson when on a beefalo. I just want something.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

14 minutes ago, Friendly Grass said:

Yeah that’s why I said “kinda”

Currently, Wigfrid turns into a wilson when on a beefalo. I just want something.

Her hp leech song should affect the beefalo. All songs should be open to be used using a beefalo imo

[HowlVoid]

5 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Vikings did this actually

They mount horses to the battle but didnt fought riding them

But shes not a viking shes a Valkyrie. She refers to odin, dragons and unicorns. Valkyries fought on the backs of pegasus. Wigfrid thinks shes a warrior from mythology.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

18 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

But shes not a viking shes a Valkyrie. She refers to odin, dragons and unicorns. Valkyries fought on the backs of pegasus. Wigfrid thinks shes a warrior from mythology.

valkiries just bring brave warriors to the valhalla. Their werent warriors as far as i know

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valkyrie#:~:text=In Norse mythology%2C a valkyrie,and those who may live.

[Friendly Grass]

28 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

valkiries just bring brave warriors to the valhalla. Their werent warriors as far as i know

Are you seriously arguing that Wigfrid isn’t a warrior? Western depictions of Vikings and north mythology have always been flawed. Wigfrid embodies the role of this western depiction of a Valkyrie. She’s an actress and maxwell gave her the role she fantasized. She has never correctly portrayed what a Viking or Valkyrie was or was not IRL.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 minutes ago, Friendly Grass said:

Are you seriously arguing that Wigfrid isn’t a warrior? Western depictions of Vikings and north mythology have always been flawed. Wigfrid embodies the role of this western depiction of a Valkyrie. She’s an actress and maxwell gave her the role she fantasized. She has never correctly portrayed what a Viking or Valkyrie was or was not IRL.

im just saying that a valkyrie isnt a warrior

if we have western depiction of something shouldnt mean that we cant learn something new today like how valkyries are in mythology

i dont care if she plays that role or not, just wanted to share that but i dont think we should base things in fake views of the things. In that way we deform even more the reallity

yes, i see she is a warrior because of that deformed view of valkiries and if klei wants to add an exclusive valkyrie perk to beefalo im okey, im just sharing my opinion that it isnt neccesary and doesnt fit in my eyes

[inferjus4]

14 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

im just saying that a valkyrie isnt a warrior

Checked the definition and yup - valkyrie is not a warrior, but Odin's helper, armed demoness who takes dead warriors from battlefield to Valhalla. At least this is what my book says.

[HowlVoid]

Although Wigfrid's source material may have been of non-combatants we cant ignore she may have been influenced by a more modern interpretation. We find modern interpretations in Thor-Ragnarok, God of War 4, etc where Valkyries are on the battle field. Its safe to assume so because Wigfrid doesn't become stronger through a straight power up. Wigfrid excels in battle. Its not a power-up like wolfgang but the fact that she is a good fighter.

I couldnt find a picture because Im at work but in her character perks it says: Excels in battle.

 

 

[Friendly Grass]

She is embodying her silly, fantasized 1900’s view of a Valkyrie-like warrior. If you look at any of her quotes you can see she has no clue what she’s talking about. It’s part of her shtick. 

Looking at my original post, I see that I failed to make this distinction. Sorry about that.

If your argument against this is that Valkyries aren’t Warriors then you have an underlying issue with Wigfrid’s character as a whole. That is a completely separate discussion.

[HowlVoid]

Exactly! Her short is the most obvious give away. She's not trying to be historically accurate, she is following a theatrical play.

 

[Friendly Grass]

I’m surprised this wasn’t convincing enough that it fits her thematically.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

the point was that using the argument "valkyries were good mounted warriors because they ridden unicorns" or what ever wasnt accurate at all so cant be used as an argument to increase beefalo damage when wigfrid mounts not that im against wigfrid being mythological inaccurate 

you used an argument of "it is accurate with her character" but when is shown that it isnt accurate " she isnt trying to be accurate" lol

my argument is that wigfrid doesnt need +90 damage riding a beefalo

 

 

[Friendly Grass]

I'm glad we were all able to share our opinions on the topic.

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the point was that using the argument "valkyries were good mounted warriors because they ridden unicorns" or what ever wasnt accurate at all so cant be used as an argument to increase beefalo damage when wigfrid mounts not that im against wigfrid being mythological inaccurate 

Not valkyries in general, we are talking about wigfrid specifically. Wigfrid is a fighting Valkyrie that is a good warrior thus she should be able to use her beefalo to fight better. In modern adaptations Valkyries are powerful warriors and I believe that is what Klei is going for with Wigfrid. 

You tried making it more complicated by bringing up REAL LIFE historical accuracy which no one was talking about. 

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

you used an argument of "it is accurate with her character"

It is accurate with her character! The valkyries you keep mentioning are NOT her character. I think you confused herself so Ill try to summerize

1. We talked about Wigfried as a fighting Valkyrie as depicted in her play

2. Her being good at combat can be transfered to her also being good at fighting on a beefalo due to her mental state

3. YOU brought up historically accurate Valkyries which no one was even talking about. 

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

but when is shown that it isnt accurate " she isnt trying to be accurate" lol

my argument is that wigfrid doesnt need +90 damage riding a beefalo

 

 

We are not buffing her, we are giving her back her own perk which she losses for no reason. And its 82.5 damage. Why wendy has a dps of over 200 damage. Makes no sense.