Will Willow need a new rework? Discussion on the highest systems of pyromania and madness.

[Mike23Ua]

For the record.. I played Willow in a good 400 or so day world. And during that time.. I learned that as little as 4 Bernie dolls and 1 sewing kit can destroy most anything that comes after Willow.

(Bernie can effectively deal with large hound waves, almost if not just as effectively as Abigail can.)

I single sewing kit use repairs a dead Bernie to 100% so just keep at minimum 2 Bernie dolls on you and 1 Sewing Kit, Bernie has 2,000 Hp. TWO Bernie’s is 4000 Hp, 2 Bernie’s + 1 sewing kit worth 5 uses 4000x5 = 20,000 hp.

Its simple maths guys.. now the ONLY difference between Abigail killing hounds and Bernie doing it is that Wendy can set Abigail to auto-attack the hounds, Willow on the other Hand has to run the dogs TOO Bernie and kite them under his feet.

Bernie prioritizes shadows thats his main design intention.. but he also fairs well enough protecting Willow from hounds.

Abigail at her Peak performance only has 600hp, let her die and she Respawn a at 150 hp.

As a Wendy main both prior to and after her refresh I think it’s kinda funny how I used to have to run enemies under Abigail to get her to attack them.. and NOW that’s how I use Bernie to attack enemies that aren’t Shadow Creatures.

Enough Bernie’s, a few healing Kits and a whole lot of patience.. and you can effectively have him kill Deerclops & Bearger for her while all you do is run around playing Sewing kit medic for fallen Bernie’s

[Terra_Zina]

I actually really like the ideas you proposed. However, I do not think they exactly fit her character, or should be her passive. Because truth is, while I agree that there isn't enough pyro in that maniac, she's fine as she is..

However, I do think they should consider these for a future update, or an event. Perhaps another ruins or moon update that passivly buff Willow like how they did Wormwood.

That being said, before Willow was reworked, and before we knew anything about how Willow would look like, I proposed the idea that she would be able to craft different types of lighters. Along with her normal lighter, and endothermic lighter and a shadow lighter. Shadow lighter would only have like 5 or 10 uses. The fire would be black like in the shorts, would not provide any light or warmth and have a massive sanity drain to anyone aside from Willow, but it'd do massive damage and last for much longer than normal fire.

Obviously this didn't happen, but I thought it was pretty cool...

[Pop Guy]

2 hours ago, Shosuko said:

If your response to a hound wave, or needing to farm spiders is to drop bernie on the ground and stand there dance emoting I'll believe you lolol  Otherwise don't try to argue that she plays like Wendy.

What I wrote:

7 hours ago, Pop Guy said:

I agree, Bernie and Abigail give a similar feeling during my runs. The difference is that I use Abigail against some hordes and Bernie against some bosses.

I specified that I use the two followers on different types of enemies. But in practice, I always do the same thing: I "hurl" the follower at the target and throw myself in the fray with full armor. A rudimentary technique but which always works, and well. I don't know how else I would have to play to experience this feeling of big difference.

 

1 hour ago, Terra_Zina said:

That being said, before Willow was reworked, and before we knew anything about how Willow would look like, I proposed the idea that she would be able to craft different types of lighters. Along with her normal lighter, and endothermic lighter and a shadow lighter. Shadow lighter would only have like 5 or 10 uses. The fire would be black like in the shorts, would not provide any light or warmth and have a massive sanity drain to anyone aside from Willow, but it'd do massive damage and last for much longer than normal fire.

I love that Willow can fight with fire, so I can't help but share the idea of a weapon of her own that was capable of unleashing massive damage on enemies via a shadow fire. You could easily make the lighter on an ancient Pseudoscientific station upgradeable, just as you do with the Gardeneer Hat when upgraded in the Premier Gardeneer Hat.

 >  > 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Bernie can effectively deal with large hound waves, almost if not just as effectively as Abigail can

Not at all. Watch the video shosuko posted

[ShadowDuelist]

Bernie is great for hound waves, but mostly giving you and your team enough time to kill the hounds one by one. He only holds aggro, his damage is really poor, and terrorbeaks usually deal a ton of damage to him if he is busy fighting something else. 
So you need a lot of Bernies or tapes to sustain a really long fight, (EG: Bernie holding the grumble bees aggro).

Abigail is by far superior when dealing with mobs, Bernie can fight mobs but it’s just a bonus. He is more useful to passively deal with shadow creatures, mostly at the ruins, against boss fights that made you insane mid fight, and to avoid cheap terrorbeak hits during fuelweaver fight.

Wendy sucks fighting shadow creatures and unless she has an ornery beefalo, I’d dare to say that it is her only con. If anything, Willow and Wendy are complementary to each other.

[Mysterious box]

Personally I'd settle for her going insane alot earlier in her sanity pool to her benefit and disbenefit aside from that even if nothing else happens there is one thing we need...

No must be told....

THE LORE OF BERNIE! MUST BE UNLEASHED!

Just to clarify I meant lore concerning where bernie got his powers and why shadows consider him a threat is bernie a super natural creature pretending to be a teddy bear or does willow subconsciously imbue him with power.

[Azamagon]

I only have 2 main opinions on Willow:

1 - Bernie

I find it odd that Bernie is only of use while insane. Since this means you can only really use him with Shadow Creatures around, partly mitigating his usefulness as a tank-ally.

So, I'd suggest some way to make Bernie useable without insanity. For example: If Willow right-clicks a Bernie placed on the world, it toggles him on as BERNIE! (and rightclick BERNIE! to turn him back to regular Bernie). However, toggling him on could cost a huge chunk of sanity, while reducing the amount of all sanity Willow can gain for as long as BERNIE! is active.

2 - Fire, and its dangers

Fire in general is a painfully chaotic and dangerous element to use in DST. While that's maybe fine in general, I feel that some of the fire sources in the game (like fires started by Willow's Lighter and the Fire Staff, for example?), needs to have 0 spreading effect - or at least the inability to spread to nearby structures, vegetation and items etc, only at most spreading to hostiles creatures (and maybe allies, so they still need to be careful). I suggest that not just to make it viable fighting sources in general, but also to emphasize the "magical" aspect of these fire sources.

So, yeah, that's basicly identical to OP's green fire, and I feel these magical fires being a different colour is an excellent idea, to indicate their different magical nature.

This change could also come with the inability for other survivors to use her magical lighter.

Do those 2 changes, and I think Willow would likely become an incredibly powerful character (potentially needing another downside, even).

[CaptainChaotica]

On 1/11/2021 at 12:52 AM, Pop Guy said:

Nothing to say here except that the use of a "Darkest Dungeon" picture just reminded me of how I always tend to name my Hellion "Wigfrid" (especially if it's the redheaded one).

Anybody else here do that?  XD

Anyway as much as I like Willow's lore and all that, I also very much like the way she is now, as a character with SOME specific traits, but not so many that it forces you into one playstyle.  I can play as Willow the way I like. That flexibility-without-being-as-boring-as-Wilson hits the sweet spot for me, and I wouldn't want her too complicated-up.

...Notorious

[Seero]

On 1/11/2021 at 2:52 AM, Pop Guy said:

Also, Willow should have the ability to be able to "wax" structures with beeswax, so that they become completely flame immune. This is an extremely expensive method, but it guarantees the safety of key structures from the danger of fires.

 

if I ever played this willow I know what i 'm absolutely not going to do

On 1/11/2021 at 9:37 AM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i like her as she is

I like her as she is, someone I never play