sweetles and grubgrubs

[zach123b]

i've been trying to maximize grubgrubs/sweetles for a couple hours or so and here's my findings

sweetles and grubgrubs tend to the same amount of plants.  wild and tame tend the same amount, being wellfed or having sufficient calories is the difference of 1-2 plants tended a day to 6-7plants tended a day

sweetles reproduce at 20%+2% while tamed/groomed/not starving.  and grubgrubs are 10%+1%. the grubgrub eggs hatch at 3%+13% but it says 17% change.  the sweetle eggs hatch 7%+27% and say 33% total change.  sweetles have a base 98% sweetle and 2% grubgrub egg laying.  grubgrubs are 66% grubgrub and 33% sweetle base egg laying chance.  tending to grubfruits increase the chances for grubgrub eggs.  by 1-3% per grubfruit tending

sweetles give 1600kcal while grubgrubs give 4800kcal

sweetles eat 20kg/cycle sulfur and excrete 50% as sucrose while grubgrubs eat 50kg/cycle sulfur or 30kg/cycle sucrose and do not excrete

sweetles and grubgrubs start with 6300calories on birth and consume 700/cycle.  the sweetles and grubgrub will die of starvation at about 58cycles, the sweetle will have barely laid an egg while the grubgrub will be about half way.  if groomed, the sweetle will lay an egg at age 10 and again at age 20.  the grubgrub will lay an egg at age 20.  they both should die at age 24 due to starvation.  the grubgrub has a 33% chance of laying a sweetle egg if not tending to grubfruits

grubgrubs can also 'rub' arbor tree branches for 50% growth.  this is however per branch which grubgrubs can only 'rub' 6-7 as far as i've seen.  they do not 'rub' oxyfern or wheezeworts sadly

 

this means, sweetle numbers can be increased without feed.  arbor trees can produce more even when domesticated.  wild unfed grubgrubs are good for taking care of 1-2 wild plants or untangling a farm of 8 grubfruits.  6kg sucrose/10kg sulfur per cycle to get 50% growth for 6-7 plants with grubgrubs (glum) this can stack with fertilizer for 150% growth.  this makes for some interesting scenarios

[blash365]

3 minutes ago, zach123b said:

this means, sweetle numbers can be increased without feed.

How? You are saying by simply grooming them, they lay 2 eggs by cycle 20?

What about their sucrose output? Do they output sucrose without feeding?

[zach123b]

for me in sandbox mode, i raised a sweetle from an egg and got 2 eggs from it, one at cycle 10 and again at cycle 20 before it died of starvation at cycle 24.  it only produces 50% of consumed as sucrose so no output of sucrose without sulfur

[misotoma]

You did the hard work. Thank you so much! But just to make sure you are saying that, like voles, we can keep grub grub unfed and it will still lay an egg if groomed? If a grub grub is unfed do they still tend to 1-2 plants? The sweetle still works this way right now? This is overpowering a starvation vole ranch.. this is good news to me.

This does means sulfur goes to plants only (besides initial stage of grooming to grow a sizable ranch/ranches) since it will over power barbecue am I correct in saying that?

[zach123b]

a grubgrub will lay 1 egg over it's lifecycle but they have a 34% of it being a sweetle egg.  for the 66% to be higher, you have to keep them with grubfruits,  so keep a couple wild grubfruits with them and you should be able to have them never die out with no sulfur input while regularly grooming them

a greenhouse or open to the world they'll die off before laying an egg if not getting groomed

you could keep them wild but you can't grow the population then.  and they still start with 34% sweetle chance

but, they affect arbor tree branches~   think about it, an arbor tree produces 333.33kg/cycle lumber, with grubgrubs, that goes to 500kg/c of lumber.  in this case, you would be trading 10kg sulfur for 167kg lumber.  they have to tend to each branch though so they can only affect 6-7 branches per cycle

 

[misotoma]

2 hours ago, zach123b said:

so keep a couple wild grubfruits with them and you should be able to have them never die out with no sulfur input while regularly grooming them

Hah! Man your research is a blessing.. so basically ranch as many sweetles as needed - stop feeding sulfur (unless sucrose is needed). Starve ranching them will produce two eggs each and keep a ranch with grub plants & arbor trees and enough grubs that are self sustained. You get two food types of quality 4 and extra lumber for energy.. almost for free?

Nice.. now.. this + the claymator v. 3 you have oxygen and calories for a lot of dupes.. finally.

[ghkbrew]

5 hours ago, misotoma said:

so basically ranch as many sweetles as needed - stop feeding sulfur (unless sucrose is needed). Starve ranching them will produce two eggs each and keep a ranch with grub plants & arbor trees and enough grubs that are self sustained.

That's similar to my plan. I have a ranch of 8 sweetles that are unfed. The overflow from that go into a second starvation ranch with wild grubfuit plants. The sweetles in the grubfruit ranch get to about 30% chance of laying a grubgrub egg by the time they lay their second. I plan on shipping the grubgrub larva to my food farms to live glum for ~60 cycles before they die eggless. (This last part isn't implemented yet since it's taken forever to spin up the sweetle farms from 1 domesticated critter)

Voila, sulfur-free sustainable grubgrubs!

 

5 hours ago, misotoma said:

keep a ranch with grub plants & arbor trees and enough grubs that are self sustained.

I'm not sure how well arbor trees are going to work with grubgrubs. So far I've only ever seen them give a grubgrub rub to the lowest 2 branches on the trees. Does anyone know if they can reach the higher branches?

A 2/5 * 50% = 20% increase in production is nice, but not game changing. But, a full 50% increase would make domesticated arbor trees water positive which would be awesome.

[zach123b]

i can get all 5 branches the 50% from building a couple tiles around them.  the grubgrubs have to be adjacent to give the buff

[Kderosa]

It appears that if you keep Sweetles and Grubgrubs in the same ranch the Grub Rub buff gets canceled out by the Sweetle Tending buff and vice versa. If so it would suggest you keep the only one type of critter in each ranch.

Has anyone run any tests?

 

 

[psusi]

3 hours ago, Kderosa said:

It appears that if you keep Sweetles and Grubgrubs in the same ranch the Grub Rub buff gets canceled out by the Sweetle Tending buff and vice versa.

Don't they give the same buff?

[Kderosa]

9 minutes ago, psusi said:

Don't they give the same buff?

No. Sweetles give a 5 or 10% buff I believe. The grubgrubs give a 50% buff. 

I had one grubgrub and five sweetles in the ranch with about 20 crops. All the plants indicated a sweetle tending buff except the one plant the grubgrub just rubbed. 

[misotoma]

I'm gonna start isolating all of them.. One with wild sweetles to help produce more grubs and another filled with wild grubs. But that sulfur will run out soon enough.. so.. these hatches are looking REAL nice. Time to get over this farm/ranch game going on. Until a sour gas boiler is built... which now that I think about it.. can we even FIT one in these tiny maps?

Also .. where are the magma volcanoes? If that isn't brought back.. I'm moving on to a new game lol

[The Plum Gate]

So, the sulfur geyser, is it solid sulfur or gaseous sulfur? This might help with the sweetle feeding issue.

[zach123b]

it helps a lot.  the sulfur geyser is on average about 1-2kg/s from what i've seen.  that's 600kg to 1200kg sulfur per day, enough for many bugs and each game has atleast one sulfur geyser.  it does come out liquid at 165c which sulfur has pretty low shc so not much heat from it

a sour gas boiler in comparison will produce 2000kg sulfur per cycle running at a full pipe, 10kg/s oil.  we get about half a sour gas boiler worth of sulfur