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Server ping shows "???". What is the reason?


Guest aresd

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I studied the problem for several days before writing this post. Is the game using a different port for ping? How is this system implemented in a dedicated server? 10999 UDP port (from server.ini) opened on router. There are three providers, all of which have a fixed public IP. However, no ping is displayed through any of them in the public server table. External ports are closed for incoming connections for security. Opened only 10999 UDP

Router: Mikrotik CCR1009-7G-1C-1S+

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34 minutes ago, PandoPon said:

It seems like a client side problem. My dedicated usually shows ??? for me, but for my friends its usually <20

Very strange behavior if I can connect to my server via a public list. That is, the client knows the host address, knows the port, connects to it, but why can't it check the connection status through this port?

42 minutes ago, PandoPon said:

It seems like a client side problem. My dedicated usually shows ??? for me, but for my friends its usually <20

asked a friend to check from another city. Exactly the same situation, it connects to the server, but the ping is displayed "???".

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where is the server trying to connect after startup?

 

I would like the developers to tell us an approximate algorithm for determining the ping so that we can solve problems with displaying ping in the list of public servers. None of the solutions on the forum help

2020-11-01_2-48-49.png

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And yet, if I create a server on my computer, regardless of the fact that the port forwarding goes to a completely different host, users can connect to me. It seems to me that we do not know something, and the developers do not want dispel the fog of their secrets. Assuming a counter-argument in advance - UPNP on microtik is disabled by default for security reasons as well.

As I noticed, there is generally a lot of outdated information here that is not relevant, but no one is trying to update it and sort it out on the shelves. Perhaps this is the very essence of the atmosphere of the game. For example, I tried to figure out how to create mods, but having lost half a day studying the forum, I gave up this bad job. Everything is so confusing, complex, unstructured and clearly not created for the user. A pile of old, unnecessary information that is not removed, but simply superimposed on each other, like in a trash heap.

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56 minutes ago, Slagger said:

Yeah same for me. Specially chinese servers are ??? usually. Maybe it's bc they are to far and game cant canculate ping. I want to learn the reason too!

queue up for a response from the developers. I also really want to hear their opinion on this matter.

1. Why does the dedicated server work differently than the server created in the game client
2. Why is it necessary to open a port for a dedicated server, while the client does not require it?
3.why, with equal configs of the dedicated server and the server created in the game client (in particular, UDP port 10999), the connection to both servers occurs without problems, while these are completely different hosts, and the forwarding port is explicitly registered to the host with a dedicated server
4.How is ping calculated? Why, with good hardware, a fairly high-speed Internet (100 mbit/s + 350 mbit/s + 100 mbit/s + 600 mbit/s) with several backup channels and external public IPs, a powerful router that will withstand any network storm, I cannot afford a 24/7 server and enjoy random players from all over my country just because my server for some reason, lies at the bottom of the entire list, while some Vasily Pupkin, whose ancient ADSL with an outgoing speed of 512 kilobits can afford a leading position in the list of servers, while the quality of his connection does not stand up to criticism
5. What's going on and how does it work?

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3 hours ago, aresd said:

queue up for a response from the developers. I also really want to hear their opinion on this matter.

1. Why does the dedicated server work differently than the server created in the game client
2. Why is it necessary to open a port for a dedicated server, while the client does not require it?
3.why, with equal configs of the dedicated server and the server created in the game client (in particular, UDP port 10999), the connection to both servers occurs without problems, while these are completely different hosts, and the forwarding port is explicitly registered to the host with a dedicated server
4.How is ping calculated? Why, with good hardware, a fairly high-speed Internet (100 mbit/s + 350 mbit/s + 100 mbit/s + 600 mbit/s) with several backup channels and external public IPs, a powerful router that will withstand any network storm, I cannot afford a 24/7 server and enjoy random players from all over my country just because my server for some reason, lies at the bottom of the entire list, while some Vasily Pupkin, whose ancient ADSL with an outgoing speed of 512 kilobits can afford a leading position in the list of servers, while the quality of his connection does not stand up to criticism
5. What's going on and how does it work?

1] In-game client has access to Steamworks, and with it the Steamworks networking bridge.  Dedicated servers do not as there is no authentication with Steam for Steamworks.

2] No Steamworks bridge means you'll have to port forward, as it's a more of a direct peer-peer connection.

3] UDP is socketless.  I think this answers this question, it's hard to tell what you're asking here.

4] Ping is the round-trip time duration from client->server->client, notated in milliseconds. 53ping is 53ms or ~(53/2)ms to arrive from the client to the server and another ~(53/2)ms from the server back to the client.

5] Ping is a bad metric to go by alone for a quality connection, but a low ping indicates that the server is closer to a client than not- closer the server is the less bad packets will matter and the odds of bad packets decreases.  Then there's other factors to consider like the hardware capabilities and such so the server won't suffer from tickrate loss.

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30 minutes ago, CarlZalph said:

1] In-game client has access to Steamworks, and with it the Steamworks networking bridge.  Dedicated servers do not as there is no authentication with Steam for Steamworks.

2] No Steamworks bridge means you'll have to port forward, as it's a more of a direct peer-peer connection.

3] UDP is socketless.  I think this answers this question, it's hard to tell what you're asking here.

4] Ping is the round-trip time duration from client->server->client, notated in milliseconds. 53ping is 53ms or ~(53/2)ms to arrive from the client to the server and another ~(53/2)ms from the server back to the client.

5] Ping is a bad metric to go by alone for a quality connection, but a low ping indicates that the server is closer to a client than not- closer the server is the less bad packets will matter and the odds of bad packets decreases.  Then there's other factors to consider like the hardware capabilities and such so the server won't suffer from tickrate loss.

1,2 - Okay, there is some truth here

3,4,5 - These dogmas are known to everyone who has even a little to do with network administration or who did not skip computer science at school. BUT. The point is that all servers, including dedicated ones, work in equal conditions. Nevertheless, some are at the top of the list, others are at the bottom. So all the same, how this function is implemented, in order to have an understanding of how it could be corrected this situation.

2020-11-01_17-29-16.png

 

I want to draw your attention to the fact that most of the servers in the top of the list are not dedicated, while dedicated ones are rare. I am assuming that these dedicated servers have a direct connection past the router, which is why they have a status other than "???". Then what other port should you pass? Here, the ICMP protocol is clearly not used, because:
1.it is easy to check by allowing the router to respond to pings
2.it is stupid from a technical point of view
- the result will be VERY inaccurate and misleading, because in fact, the server can be several tens of kilometers from the router itself: life behind the router is known only to the router.

So, after all, what do we have?

- Secret port for checking server status?
- A secret package, which for some reason is cut off by some anti-ddos equipment of the provider because of a suspicious signature?

Players can obviously connect to the server using the UDP protocol and play on the server, so blocking the UDP traffic by the provider is completely excluded

I really would not like to unpack the network sniffer and find out what connections are being established besides, because the network behind my router is large enough and I will have to stop in order to have a good research result

I would like the developers to pay attention and give explanations on how to act in such a situation, they are probably in the know. Because, judging by what I learned on the forum, none of the participants even has a rough idea of how this is implemented and how to deal with it

P.S if Russians inhabit somewhere, you will always find them by one signature of three letters. Sorry, I didn't check the screenshot before posting

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2 hours ago, aresd said:

I want to draw your attention to the fact that most of the servers in the top of the list are not dedicated, while dedicated ones are rare. I am assuming that these dedicated servers have a direct connection past the router, which is why they have a status other than "???".

I have the answer to this and it's really rather simple.  But..

2 hours ago, aresd said:

1,2 - Okay, there is some truth here

3,4,5 - These dogmas are known to everyone who has even a little to do with network administration or who did not skip computer science at school. BUT. The point is that all servers, including dedicated ones, work in equal conditions. Nevertheless, some are at the top of the list, others are at the bottom. So all the same, how this function is implemented, in order to have an understanding of how it could be corrected this situation.

I would like the developers to pay attention and give explanations on how to act in such a situation, they are probably in the know. Because, judging by what I learned on the forum, none of the participants even has a rough idea of how this is implemented and how to deal with it

If you want to berate me for going out of my way to provide to you statements of fact, then that's your prerogative.  I just won't help you further.

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2 hours ago, CarlZalph said:

I have the answer to this and it's really rather simple.  But..

If you want to berate me for going out of my way to provide to you statements of fact, then that's your prerogative.  I just won't help you further.

If the translator translates something wrong, then I'm sorry. I just enter my thought and copy it here, the middleman is to blame - google

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On 10/31/2020 at 10:00 AM, aresd said:

I studied the problem for several days before writing this post. Is the game using a different port for ping? How is this system implemented in a dedicated server? 10999 UDP port (from server.ini) opened on router. There are three providers, all of which have a fixed public IP. However, no ping is displayed through any of them in the public server table. External ports are closed for incoming connections for security. Opened only 10999 UDP

Router: Mikrotik CCR1009-7G-1C-1S+

I thought ??? just meant "hella high ping"

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2 hours ago, JustCrimson said:

I thought ??? just meant "hella high ping"

This cannot be, except if the host that makes the ping measurement is on the moon, which I doubt.

Even if we assume that the server responsible for sorting by ping is located in Klea's office, here is my speed test to Vancouver on the provider, which will host a dedicated server

 

10355138311 (1).png

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2 hours ago, aresd said:

This cannot be, except if the host that makes the ping measurement is on the moon, which I doubt.

Even if we assume that the server responsible for sorting by ping is located in Klea's office, here is my speed test to Vancouver on the provider, which will host a dedicated server

 

10355138311 (1).png

That doesnt change anything, if the server is slow to respond its slow to respond, your internet cant change that

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1 hour ago, JustCrimson said:

That doesnt change anything, if the server is slow to respond its slow to respond, your internet cant change that

but players can connect to the server without problems from different parts of my country and there are no delays

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8 hours ago, JustCrimson said:

there are always delays, just none that you can notice

Obviously, but I mean delays that show up and cause trouble. There are none.

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??? ping =/= lag, I've played plenty of times with friends in the same country and we had ??? ping both ways (they host or I host) and you can play normally, kite just as you would be able to in a server with 50 or less ping. This is kind of a odd issue for me because it never happened with other games.

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4 hours ago, Pruinae said:

??? ping =/= lag, I've played plenty of times with friends in the same country and we had ??? ping both ways (they host or I host) and you can play normally, kite just as you would be able to in a server with 50 or less ping. This is kind of a odd issue for me because it never happened with other games.

You need to read the entire post in full. I have never said that I have any lags or connection problems. My problem is that because of the "???" my server, having a very stable and broadband connection, is at the very bottom of the list and is not interesting to players, because they cannot find it and enter, while someone with a very unstable connection has a server at the top of the list

 

9 hours ago, JustCrimson said:

i mean have you tried fighting things? usually a good indicator of lag

I've tried every possible combination before I wrote a post here, including different providers with different Tier1 links. I have even tried the demilitarized zone (port forwarding of all incoming connections to the host) - no use. The server appears in the list, the connection is OK, but the ping is "???" and, therefore, the server is somewhere at the bottom of the list, in the area of hosts created on Neptune

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24 minutes ago, aresd said:

You need to read the entire post in full. I have never said that I have any lags or connection problems. My problem is that because of the "???" my server, having a very stable and broadband connection, is at the very bottom of the list and is not interesting to players, because they cannot find it and enter, while someone with a very unstable connection has a server at the top of the list

I meant to say that to JustCrimson but forgot to quote

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24 minutes ago, Pruinae said:

I meant to say that to JustCrimson but forgot to quote

I don't quite understand what you mean) I'm not English-speaking and I can only use a translator who doesn't always know how to understand slang))

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