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2 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

Smart batteries are such a fuel saver that I don't even bother building a coal generator until I have the materials and research to build a smart battery as well.   

I never build them at all! Dupes should work for their power dammit! 

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1 hour ago, Neotuck said:

there is a way to use automation with two smart batteries to keep jumbo batteries full, but given how leaky jumbo batteries are it's more efficient to just use smart batteries alone

Are they bad? Are the small ones better about loss? Are smart ones that much more effective at retaining charges?

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39 minutes ago, Slvrsrfr said:

Are they bad? Are the small ones better about loss? Are smart ones that much more effective at retaining charges?

I wouldn't dwell on it too much. Just think of it as a tradeoff game. Jumbo batteries can be built on the cheap for quick storage for half the space in comparison to smart batteries. But you don't get the automation/smarts...

The power loss with jumbo batteries is greater as well.

So yeah, space vs capacity is what you'd be judging this on.

My base currently has only the one jumbo battery to smooth out any overproduction and I use a lot of smart batteries to control generation, for example.

Small batteries can be safely phased out unless you specifically need to store a little power in part of your circuit or need some creative way of generating a little extra heat.

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1 hour ago, Slvrsrfr said:

Are they bad? Are the small ones better about loss? Are smart ones that much more effective at retaining charges?

I use jumbo batteries for things like dupe hamster wheels, steam turbines, or solar panels.    Smart batteries are a LOT more efficient, produce less heat, etc, but if you've got a power source that runs when it runs for however long it runs, the bigger battery is nicer.

 

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Smart batteries are the long term solution, but you can avoid wasting power with jumbo batteries even in the early game. The trick is to have more slightly more storage capacity than the coal generator will produce in a single run. It's about 5-6 jumbo batteries for a single coal generator. Then set the coal generator to something low like 0-10%. The generator will activate when you batteries are nearly empty. It will request a load of coal, which a dupe will have to provide. Then it will run until it's used all it's fuel. But since you have enough storage, you won't waste any power. And the generator will wait until the batteries are nearly empty again to activate.

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18 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

produce less heat

this i think I may not have known, that's nice. I've not used coal yet. So for me it's moot. But. maybe it worth pushing towards some automation for me towards the start of the game. Right now I don't make it past CY10 before i restart to reconsider how to develop the seed.nor have i made it to smart batt's so...

the efficiency loss maybe described on one of the tables in my old thread, it's been awhile and I don't recall.

Thanks for the insight. good to know they run cooler

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On 10/3/2020 at 1:50 PM, Slvrsrfr said:

the efficiency loss maybe described on one of the tables in my old thread, it's been awhile and I don't recall.

The efficiency of the batteries as energy storage devices really doesn't become an issue until you have dozens of them in use.  Your power production facilities, whatever they may be, aren't really going to notice the power leakage from one or two batteries.   On the other hand, if you're trying to optimize everything, you'll definitely want to take it into account.

A larger issue in the early base stage of the game, is the heat the batteries produce.  Small batteries are nuts, producing 1.25kDTU/s of heat.  A large battery produces the same amount of heat, but holds 4 times the power and occupies twice the space of a small battery.  So if you build small batteries to fill the space of a large battery, they'll produce twice the heat.  If you build small batteries to hold the same power as a single large battery, you'll produce 4 times the heat.   

A smart battery, on the other hand, produces only 500 DTU/s of heat.  That's about 30% of the heat that a large battery will produce.  Even if you build two of them so you have the same power capacity as a single large battery, they're still producing 250 DTU/s less heat than that single large battery.  I won't bother swapping for a smart battery while I'm only using dupes for power.  However, once I start using generators I always use a smart battery to control them because 1) they make it easy to conserve fuel and 2) they have a smaller thermal footprint.

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On 10/2/2020 at 6:00 PM, KittenIsAGeek said:

I use jumbo batteries for things like dupe hamster wheels, steam turbines, or solar panels.    Smart batteries are a LOT more efficient, produce less heat, etc, but if you've got a power source that runs when it runs for however long it runs, the bigger battery is nicer.

Yes I think if you could keep from actually wasting power, with only 2-3 batteries, losses from jumbo batteries wouldn't matter much at all.

So you either lose power when your battery is full, but the generator runs it uses up its fuel, OR

Build a large bank of jumbo batteries to avoid wasting power, but then, you are multiplying battery losses by say a factor of 10.

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1 hour ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

The efficiency of the batteries as energy storage devices really doesn't become an issue until you have dozens of them in use.  Your power production facilities, whatever they may be, aren't really going to notice the power leakage from one or two batteries.   On the other hand, if you're trying to optimize everything, you'll definitely want to take it into account.

A larger issue in the early base stage of the game, is the heat the batteries produce.  Small batteries are nuts, producing 1.25kDTU/s of heat.  A large battery produces the same amount of heat, but holds 4 times the power and occupies twice the space of a small battery.  So if you build small batteries to fill the space of a large battery, they'll produce twice the heat.  If you build small batteries to hold the same power as a single large battery, you'll produce 4 times the heat.   

A smart battery, on the other hand, produces only 500 DTU/s of heat.  That's about 30% of the heat that a large battery will produce.  Even if you build two of them so you have the same power capacity as a single large battery, they're still producing 250 DTU/s less heat than that single large battery.  I won't bother swapping for a smart battery while I'm only using dupes for power.  However, once I start using generators I always use a smart battery to control them because 1) they make it easy to conserve fuel and 2) they have a smaller thermal footprint.

this is why I plant a wheezewort next to my batteries if available 

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