Damage Overheated / Broken & Recuperation of material

[PhoenixGaming69]

This might sound like a stupid question, but...

If some material is damaged and your dupes inject that material to repair, do you lose material when repairing ?

If left unrepaired, and it eventually is broken, and then you inject material for a repair, is it simply injecting more material? 

Ex: I create a 5Kg gold radiant pipe, and it is partly damaged, like 25%. but the message I see the dupe injecting material is like "5kg gold". Does this mean an additional 5Kg was used?

Are there particular strategies to go about this?

 

 

[Xenotrix]

Material lost. For prevent this i use mod

Default Building Settings
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1989737447

In this mod you can disable autorepair for all object to build.

[PhoenixGaming69]

Thanks for the info, I will take a look at that mod.

So like in my example, you would disable repair by default on radiant pipes or do you need to set defaults to each individually? 

I  think what you are also saying is that by destructing that same radiant pipe, and rebuilding it, you don't lose the material?

 

 

[Beowulfe]

It doesn't use the full 5Kg amount, you'll see a chunk of it dropping to the floor after the repair. They intentionally bring excess to the repair site, and the repair message says it needs more than it actually uses.

I don't believe you lose more materials by repairing when damaged vs. repairing when broken, but you can save materials by deconstructing once it's broken and rebuilding it from scratch, instead of repairing. So, if you want to go to the trouble of deconstructing -> rebuilding, you can save some, but repairing when damaged vs repairing when broken doesn't change much, from what I can tell.

[Xenotrix]

21 minutes ago, PhoenixGaming69 said:

So like in my example, you would disable repair by default on radiant pipes or do you need to set defaults to each individually? 

Without the mod, you need to click on all objects that could potentially be damaged and manualy disable autorepair. Then when the object is damaged, we destruct it and rebuild it. 

[PhoenixGaming69]

Ok I just downloaded the mod to check it out, the option to disable autorepair is for ALL items by default.  So Beowulfe, what I understand that are you saying is that repairing only uses that 25% of 5KG (1.25KG), and drops 3.75KG on the ground.  So the advantage to wait out for it to be broken or simply deciding to destruct it mid way for example is that you get back the full 5KG and don't inject 1.25KG at the disadvantage of that part breaking down and potentially halting any structures from working (ex a cooling system failing to cool, therefore other parts overheating, etc.). I think repairing is the lesser of two evils unless you're really short on any given material you wouldn't want to disable autorepair by default...

[suxkar]

1 hour ago, Xenotrix said:

Material lost. For prevent this i use mod

Default Building Settings
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1989737447

In this mod you can disable autorepair for all object to build.

As far as I know, the only situation in which a material is lost is when a tile breaks for overpressure damage. In all other cases, the object will require material, but then the same amount will be dropped after repair, so it is mass even.

[Beowulfe]

15 minutes ago, PhoenixGaming69 said:

Ok I just downloaded the mod to check it out, the option to disable autorepair is for ALL items by default.  So Beowulfe, what I understand that are you saying is that repairing only uses that 25% of 5KG (1.25KG), and drops 3.75KG on the ground.  So the advantage to wait out for it to be broken or simply deciding to destruct it mid way for example is that you get back the full 5KG and don't inject 1.25KG at the disadvantage of that part breaking down and potentially halting any structures from working (ex a cooling system failing to cool, therefore other parts overheating, etc.). I think repairing is the lesser of two evils unless you're really short on any given material you wouldn't want to disable autorepair by default...

Correct! Or, at least, that's my understanding of it, though I haven't done as deep a dive as others here likely have. Something that you're scarce on, like early Steel or space materials, might be worth turning off auto repair and rebuilding, but otherwise it's not a big deal.

That being said, the other thing to consider in the equation is duplicant labour - deconstructing or repairing when broken requires less duplicant labour than repairing constantly, if damage is occurring on a regular basis.

If you have something being damaged on a regular basis, there may be a fixable issue causing the damage, if you want any assistance in trying to resolve that issue (and you think it's something that can be resolved), feel free to share the setup (screenshots?) and I'll (as well as probably others) see what can be done to help cut back on the number of repairs required.

[PhoenixGaming69]

12 minutes ago, Beowulfe said:

That being said, the other thing to consider in the equation is duplicant labour - deconstructing or repairing when broken requires less duplicant labour than repairing constantly, if damage is occurring on a regular basis.

Agreed on this, assuming this labor is to fix something and you set a high priority on it, they'll constantly be sent over...

12 minutes ago, Beowulfe said:

If you have something being damaged on a regular basis, there may be a fixable issue causing the damage, if you want any assistance in trying to resolve that issue (and you think it's something that can be resolved), feel free to share the setup (screenshots?) and I'll (as well as probably others) see what can be done to help cut back on the number of repairs required.

The issue is with gold radiant pipes cooling steam turbines, well in excess of 100C, more like 150-160C, and trying to do this with polluted water is not working well for me. I just think I should be using another cooling liquid, maybe crude oil.  This is a geothermal plant, forget about the top two steam turbines, I just tried slapping those down to try to delete the heat in the mid section:

I tried a few things, like the AT inside the heated area, trying to bring in water, and obviously setting up steam turbines to cool the steam turbines. I know this is a mess, but I am really learning a lot about heat mechanics, obviously not there yet...

 

[TripleM999]

11 minutes ago, PhoenixGaming69 said:

I tried a few things, like the AT inside the heated area, trying to bring in water, and obviously setting up steam turbines to cool the steam turbines. I know this is a mess, but I am really learning a lot about heat mechanics, obviously not there yet...

You should avoid bridging between hot and cold areas, as bridges transfer heat. Electric and conveyor bridges are even excellent heat transfer methods with the right materials, but all other bridges do the same to some degree.

[PhoenixGaming69]

3 minutes ago, TripleM999 said:

You should avoid bridging between hot and cold areas, as bridges transfer heat. Electric and conveyor bridges are even excellent heat transfer methods with the right materials, but all other bridges do the same to some degree.

I did not know that. I always thought they did not technically store liquids, so they can't transfer heat.  Might be off topic but if I throtle the polluted water, I saw somewhere that you could transport very hot liquids like magma, like 100g or so.  So would this mean that it doesn't really matter if you put some radiant or insulated piping in this case?

[Beowulfe]

22 minutes ago, PhoenixGaming69 said:

Agreed on this, assuming this labor is to fix something and you set a high priority on it, they'll constantly be sent over...

The issue is with gold radiant pipes cooling steam turbines, well in excess of 100C, more like 150-160C, and trying to do this with polluted water is not working well for me. I just think I should be using another cooling liquid, maybe crude oil.  This is a geothermal plant, forget about the top two steam turbines, I just tried slapping those down to try to delete the heat in the mid section:

I tried a few things, like the AT inside the heated area, trying to bring in water, and obviously setting up steam turbines to cool the steam turbines. I know this is a mess, but I am really learning a lot about heat mechanics, obviously not there yet...

 

Hmm, interesting - Steam turbines won't run at all once they're over 100 degrees, so polluted water should work perfectly as a coolant, the steam turbines should never get hot enough to boil the water if they're the only source of heat.

I can't see the full setup, but the impression I get is that there's something other than the steam turbines heating that central area. Possibly the heavi-watt wire bridge on the left, or the airlock door (if that isn't a vaccuum)? They both transfer heat surprisingly well, but the door is okay if it's in a vaccuum, or if the temperature to the left of that chamber is low. The heavi-watt bridge will be transferring heat directly between your liquid lock and the gasses inside, though, which might cause some wonkiness.

Do you have anything on the right side (off the screenshot) that could be transferring heat?

Also, if you're having any issues with gold, aluminum also works great for radiant pipes cooling steam turbines. Just figured I'd mention in case you needed an alternative (radiant pipes can eat into metal reserves pretty heavily).

[TripleM999]

2 hours ago, PhoenixGaming69 said:

I did not know that. I always thought they did not technically store liquids, so they can't transfer heat.  Might be off topic but if I throtle the polluted water, I saw somewhere that you could transport very hot liquids like magma, like 100g or so.  So would this mean that it doesn't really matter if you put some radiant or insulated piping in this case?

Bridges are neither radiant nor insulated, and you are right, technically they can only contain liquids at their ends, but the bridges itself transfer heat between their endpoints. The bridge can only be at one temperature as once, so their endpoints constantly exchange heat with their surroundings.

And when you have low flow at 1/10 of the capacity of pipe (either liquid or gas), state changes like vaporization or freezing will not happen inside the pipe, but at the exit.

[Beowulfe]

6 minutes ago, TripleM999 said:

And when you have low flow at 1/10 of the capacity of pipe (either liquid or gas), state changes like vaporization or freezing will not happen inside the pipe, but at the exit.

Which in turn means that your pipes won't break.

Keep in mind the lower amount of fluids also means less heat exchange, which may make it more difficult to use as a coolant.

[TripleM999]

Yeah, for cooling i would not recommend it. Better to remove the cause for breakage. 

[PhoenixGaming69]

TripleM999 was right.  Those pipe bridges where injecting massive heat into the steam engine room, making this a constant battle.  I learnt a lot today. Thanks to everyone for your help... I will need it again soon no doubt!

[psusi]

9 hours ago, suxkar said:

As far as I know, the only situation in which a material is lost is when a tile breaks for overpressure damage. In all other cases, the object will require material, but then the same amount will be dropped after repair, so it is mass even.

I never noticed dropping material.  I always thought the repair material was lost and so it was better to just disable auto repair and deconstruct the thing when it broke and rebuild it, preferably out of a material that can better handle the heat.

9 hours ago, PhoenixGaming69 said:

I did not know that. I always thought they did not technically store liquids, so they can't transfer heat.  Might be off topic but if I throtle the polluted water, I saw somewhere that you could transport very hot liquids like magma, like 100g or so.  So would this mean that it doesn't really matter if you put some radiant or insulated piping in this case?

Bridges don't transfer heat from the content to the outside, but they count as a 3x1 building, and so even when empty, can absorb heat from one side, and emit it to the other.

 

[TripleM999]

5 hours ago, PhoenixGaming69 said:

TripleM999 was right.  Those pipe bridges where injecting massive heat into the steam engine room, making this a constant battle.  I learnt a lot today. Thanks to everyone for your help... I will need it again soon no doubt!

I've learned it the hard way too. I had a methane condenser, which built up tons of solid CO2 besides it. 

[suxkar]

7 hours ago, psusi said:

I never noticed dropping material.  I always thought the repair material was lost and so it was better to just disable auto repair and deconstruct the thing when it broke and rebuild it, preferably out of a material that can better handle the heat.

I unfortunately know it because the last pipe segment in my petroleum boiler keeps on taking damage, so I usually find 20-30kg of aluminum underneath it every 10 cycles or so

[angrybovine]

I love the building settings mod.  I use it all the time to disable autorepair and disinfect.