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Where heat comes from?


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Dear all,

Could You, please, tell me why my liquid oxygen is constantly getting hotter and hotter? I build vacuum container for condensing oxygen. After some time walls gets cold and I finally disabled thermo-cooler. Since then temperature is constantly increasing. As per screenshots below it looks like the heat is not leaking through hydrogen pipe because pipe is colder outside container. This means the heat is draining from different location. If not through hydrogen pipe then where?

23333.thumb.png.3ead9d13902949261b3f885794430940.png24444.thumb.png.1c6c131d0960aba057947f2a6efbadcb.png

 

Best regards,

Sheaker

 

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Thank You for Your reply.

No, as You can see in the screenshot there is a vacuum inside. I am checking it from time to time.

I am sure liquid oxygen pipes does not transfer any heat since they are still -183  -temperature they get while transporting LO2. No heat transfer through liquid pipes. On screenshot it is proved that heat does not transfer through vent pipe as well.

You said this could be abyssalite. What You mean? In fact the very top right tile of inner insulation from abyssalite is still hotter than others but I saw no changes in its temperature since a very long time like 400 cycles or even more.

Is there any bug related with this?

Best regards,

Sheaker

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water pump heat generation shouldn't affect too much IMO

do you have a rocket engine above this LOX storage

launching rocket generates heats for around 8tiles below even there is vacuum space isolates between them

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16 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

What about wires. Wire bridges are known to transfer heat.

They are completely in vacuum. So the they shouldn't transfer any heat. Because from where, if pipes itself are not transferring heat.

16 hours ago, TheMule said:

Im not sure if it's relevant, but a mini pump gives off 500 DTU/s. It takes about 20s to raise the temp of 1kg of O2 by 10 degrees.

The pump was disabled long time ago.

 

11 hours ago, gghhrr said:

water pump heat generation shouldn't affect too much IMO

do you have a rocket engine above this LOX storage

launching rocket generates heats for around 8tiles below even there is vacuum space isolates between them

No, the rocket is on the left, 15 tiles and above, 50 tiles.

11 hours ago, Yoma_Nosme said:

It's the tempshift plates. Leave out the bottom row and the sides that touch the tiles. 

But the tiles are in vacuum... It was on purpose to cool down the container and use vacuum as insulation.

 

4 hours ago, DonDegow said:

As @Yoma_Nosme stated, your tiles are probably not yet cooled enough; what's the temperature  of the bottom row of mineral tiles? And the abyssalite next to the tempshift plates?

As I mentioned in the beginning I was using this setup for a long time earlier so it was stabilized thermally (internally). All artificial tiles were pretty same temperature of c.a. -186 deg. As I mentioned earlier some of natural abyssalite tiles were not cooled but the they temperature did not change for the last 400 cycles.

Ok, here was my mistake. I was only checking the temperature of the top right abyssalite tile which was not changing at all. However other abyssalite tiles in fact were getting colder which I didn't noticed earlier. I though that tempshift plates will do the job here. Good lesson learned. Here are temperatures of tiles and tempshift plates in cycle 1002 and 1149.

1002:1002.png.a781db96a74f2fd392a0f591a17bc8f7.png

1149:1149.png.f7ef53696a7f6c22338a8e05a017a0e8.png

As You can see the top right tiles is 27.5 deg above zero in both cases.

Thank You for Your support in this matter.
Best regards,

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Gas affects tile temperature faster, so abyssalite can affect gas a lot more, i think it stabilizes at around 10 degrees difference, though might stabilize at higher differences for non-hydrogen gases.

If you're using vacuum, maybe metal tiles is more effecient as a wall inside, gold and lead have a very low heat capacity, and should very quickly adjust to the temperature inside. With the mass being half of regular tiles, it'll be around one third of the total heat capacity of the lowest of them. Worth considering if you ever plan on opening the thing up for maintenance.

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6 hours ago, sheaker said:

They are completely in vacuum. So the they shouldn't transfer any heat. Because from where, if pipes itself are not transferring heat.

If one part of the bridge is not in vacuum it can transfer heat to the other side, like if there was a wire bridge over the vacuum it would transfer heat inside.

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17 hours ago, BaZERGer said:

If you're using vacuum, maybe metal tiles is more effecient as a wall inside, gold and lead have a very low heat capacity, and should very quickly adjust to the temperature inside. With the mass being half of regular tiles, it'll be around one third of the total heat capacity of the lowest of them. Worth considering if you ever plan on opening the thing up for maintenance.

I agree with You. Using abyssalite as insulator was not a good idea but I was just learning. That is also fun part.
I am already building LO maker with supercoolant and everything is made of gold and thermium.

 

12 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

If one part of the bridge is not in vacuum it can transfer heat to the other side, like if there was a wire bridge over the vacuum it would transfer heat inside.

I am aware of that already but thank You for reminder.

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4 hours ago, DonDegow said:

No, using natural abyssalite as insulation is a great idea. Building tempshift plates right next to it isn't a good one ;)

I am sorry but I don't think so. If there is a vacuum outside the wall then the vacuum is the best insulator. In that case using high thermal capacity with low thermal conductivity tiles is just adding a lot of mass to slowly cool down and this brought me here. When You are building a vacuum container You want the inner walls to cool quickly while You are using tempshift plates to quickly 'accumulate cold' and then 'release cold' when oxygen gas is introduced to the system.

 

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Vacuum insulation is definitely the best yes; it's just not always simple to achieve. You should take note that without the tempshift plates on the right your design gets exactly 800 times better insulation which is clearly good enough.

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