Hot Water vs Valves and Sleet Wheat (TEST)

[Neotuck]

This is a test in response to comments on my post https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/115446-sleet-wheat-farming-with-warm-water/

The idea is to allow sleet wheat to delete heat from hot water by limiting the flow to hydroponic tiles to 33.3g/s, in addition using gold amaglam instead of steel to limit heat flow from the tiles to the sleet wheat

TEST SETUP

In the test I have 6 mini farms with 3 sleet wheats and 3 wheezeworts each.  The three mini farms to the left have gold amaglam hydroponic tiles, the other 3 mini farms have steel hydrompnic tiles. 

The mini farms with 3 valves are set to 33.3g/s each

The mini farms with 1 valve is set to 100g/s

The mini farms with no valves are getting the full 10kg/s

All farms start off at -11C

Hot water is 95C

Test began as soon as I turned on the switch so all farms received hot water at the same time

TEST OBSERVATIONS

cycle 1

Within the first cycle after I began the test there was a difference in temperature 

The warmest was the gold amaglam hydroponics that got the full 10kg/s

As I watched steel was warming up slower than the gold amaglam

the coldest was steel with valves (both the three 33/3g/s and one 100g/s, they were tied)

cycle 5

By the fifth cycle temps in all farms were stabilizing and still warming up but very slowly

There was only a 1 degree difference between the farms with valves and the farms without

Also there was only a half degree difference between gold amaglam and steel hydroponic tiles

Cycle 10

At this point almost all farms were the same temperature with less than 0.3 degree differences between all tiles

they were still warming up but very slowly 

Cycle 18

Most sleet wheats started to wilt as they reached the 5C mark, all at the same time 

 

TEST RESULTS AND ANALYSIS 

While it's true adding valves and using steel stopped heat from transferring into the farm from the start, but the cooling from the wheezeworts were not able to stop them or cool them back down.

Eventually temperatures started to equalize and all farms reached 5C at about the same time.

CONCLUSION 

Based on my test I conclude the sleet wheats are not deleting heat as they consume water, some heat must be absorbed by them too.

If I want to use hot water to irrigate my crops, I'll need to add more wheezeworts.  The valves and thermal resistance of the tiles made no difference in the long run

[Zarquan]

I would like to tinker with your build, would you mind posting a save?

This is a better result from a gameplay standpoint than the one I expected (and the one I could have sworn was in the game a few months ago).

A while ago, people used planter boxes to avoid heat transfer to the sleetwheat, as it was debris to atmosphere heat transfer rather than debris to metal heat transfer and more heat was deleted.

[psusi]

I assume it was vacuum outside the metal walls?  Did you check the water content of the ones with valves at the end?  Had they filled up or were they still empty?

When I played last year around the RU I used the valve trick to grow bristle berries with warm water and it definitely helped keep them cool.  Damn you Klei!

[Xenologist]

Perhaps aquatuner instead of wheezewort would work?

[psusi]

21 minutes ago, Xenologist said:

Perhaps aquatuner instead of wheezewort would work?

The point isn't whether wheezeworts work, but whether using valves to prevent the hydroponic tile from sitting there full of hot water works.  They used to.  @Neotuck's testing seems to indicate it no longer does.

[Angpaur]

What was temperature of dirt? It hugely affects temperature of the tile. You need to make sure it is also at -11C if you want this test to be valid.

EDIT:

I tried to repeat your test, but when I started from -11C for the whole system (gases, walls, tiles, plants, doors, phosphorite, dirt) it very quickly failed for all 3 types of farm. Temperature rised in all cases quite fast and plants stopped growing. I made a modification for the build to isolate dirt - it was supplied from the bottom and it was in vacuum so it wasn't affecting temperature inside farms.

Then I run another test starting from -33C. And results are quite surprising - the best set up is the full tile. Looks like the buffer effect of the water inside the tile has more impact then limiting flow. When flow is limited water temperature varies a lot, but in full tile after some time it stabilized and between 15C-18C ( cold dirt at -33C was affecting it).

My previous test were without active cooling - I just wanted to check which method heats up faster and full tile indeed does so. But if you apply cooling then everything changes.

[Neotuck]

10 hours ago, Zarquan said:

I would like to tinker with your build, would you mind posting a save?

I would but I'm not sure how

10 hours ago, psusi said:

I assume it was vacuum outside the metal walls?  Did you check the water content of the ones with valves at the end?  Had they filled up or were they still empty?

built the whole thing in a vacuum, the one's with valves were empty until they wilted due to heat then they started to fill up

2 hours ago, Angpaur said:

What was temperature of dirt?

when I spawned in the dirt, phosphorite, and oxygen they where all set to the same temperature 

[Angpaur]

39 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

I would but I'm not sure how

You can just attach file to your post.

I let the test run a bit more and I also changed dirt temperature to be 75C like when it is when coming out from compost pile. Results changed and now seems the one valve farm is the best. I set it to 99.9g/s and middle plant is now at -8.8C, while the plant in full tile farm is at -3.9C.

Also I found why limiting to 33g/s doesn't work as expected - plant in a tile will not grow until there is at least 200g of water inside the tile. So when limiting it to 33.3g/s means that at the beginning there 233g of hot water and there is nothing to buffer for it. It slowly drops and at some point plant for a few seconds stops to grow until the tile contents is again above 200g. I checked what happens if I let the tile empty to like 100g, by stopping flow and then restarting it again at 33.3g/s - at any moment there is no more than 70g inside the tile and this indeed limit heat spread and allows lower temperature of the plant. But it is impossible to maintain such state because even at 33.3g/s tile at some point will be empty and will have to be refilled with 200g.

[Yoma_Nosme]

If you connect the the hydro tiles with the doors below the wheez via tempshift plates wouldn't it distribute the cold faster I.e cool more? 

[psusi]

Wait a second, you have tempshift plates interacting with the hydroponic tiles!  No wonder it doesn't work.

 

[bobucles]

9 minutes ago, psusi said:

Wait a second, you have tempshift plates interacting with the hydroponic tiles!  No wonder it doesn't work.

Sounds like a legit issue. Tempshifts would increase the temperature flow from the farm tiles to the surrounding air by at least 3x. It's unavoidable that some heat will transfer into the farm tiles, but the tempshift plates will rip that heat right out of them.

Do plants transfer heat directly with their farm tile? I always thought it didn't, and that the only flow of energy goes from farm => nearby air => plant. If that's the case, then removing the tempshifts should definitely reduce the flow from farm to air. I could be mistaken though.

[Neotuck]

22 minutes ago, psusi said:

Wait a second, you have tempshift plates interacting with the hydroponic tiles!  No wonder it doesn't work.

Hadn't thought of that, I'll reset the test without tempshift plates

[Zarquan]

2 hours ago, Neotuck said:

Hadn't thought of that, I'll reset the test without tempshift plates

Only the plates next to the hydroponic tiles are potentially problematic.  The others are good.

[Wumpus the 19th]

In conclusion, why in god's holy name are you using 95 degree water to feed sleet wheats. most water sources are cooler than this unless it's piping water straight from a water geyser...

this is not me proposing a solution, this is me saying this is an experiment, not something most people would attempt to set up

[Zarquan]

34 minutes ago, Wumpus the 19th said:

In conclusion, why in god's holy name are you using 95 degree water to feed sleet wheats. most water sources are cooler than this unless it's piping water straight from a water geyser...

this is not me proposing a solution, this is me saying this is an experiment, not something most people would attempt to set up

The point is that if you can delete heat using sleetwheat, then you don't have to delete heat elsewhere. And since 95 is one of the hotter stable temperatures for water, we might as well go high.  If this works for 95 C with reduced cooling, it should work with 60 C or 40 C water too.