Wheat vs Beans

[Promethien]

Edit 7/19: New change. Beans now take 20kg ethanol per cycle grow. It takes 7.2 wild trees to support a full time distiller or 1.8 domesticated trees. A distiller can feed 15 bean plants. That is 8.4kg pwater per cycle per bean plant. 176kg pwater per harvest. Beans now require a great deal more labor and power to grow but are half the water cost of wheat. They can be water free if you set up a not unreasonable amount of wild trees. 

Edit: There has been a change. Spicy Tofu now requires a regular tofu instead of 12 beans. This changes the math a rather large amount since we get 8000 kcal per harvest. New Bean numbers:

• 8000 kcal per harvest. Requires microbe musher cook and a natgas oven cook.
• 21 cycle growth time. 380 kcal per cycle.
• 35 kg pwater per cycle. 735 kg per harvest.
• 1 kg phosphorite per cycle. 21 kg per harvest.
• -25c to 0c temp range. Relatively easy to get pwater in this range without freezing. 

A much better situation than before but its still double the water cost for less kcals. Still not worth it. At this point I think we could match the water consumption per cycle and call it good. Still would take a bit of water in the musher so it'll be a little bit more expensive to make and it takes twice as much dupe labor. That balances the cost vs it being easier to get pwater to the right temp so its a little easier to keep the plant happy. 

Wheat:

• 7200 kcal per harvest. Can be cooked with fryer to save natgas but lower quality (still decent at 2 quality tho). Quality 5 cooks with natgas oven also possible.
• 18 cycle growth time. 400 kcal per cycle.
• 20 kg water per cycle. 360 kg per harvest.
• 5 kg dirt per cycle. 90 kg per harvest.
• -55c to 5c temp range. Challenging to water without freezing.

(Edit: Old numbers, see new above, keeping this here for reference) Bean:

• 4000 kcal per harvest. Must be cooked with natgas oven.
• 21 cycle growth time. 190 kcal per cycle.
• 35 kg pwater per cycle. 735 kg per harvest.
• 1 kg phosphorite per cycle. 21 kg per harvest.
• -25c to 0c temp range. Relatively easy to get pwater in this range without freezing. 

(Old rant, still largely relevant but a little bit changed) I get it. You want these plants to be more than slightly different variations on "cold plant gives high quality food." More water spent for half the kcal gain per cycle is not an input to output ratio that makes even a little sense. Especially since pips make dirt much cheaper. Beans are just not worth it at all. I'll take the dupe labor and ranch shove voles for meat to get quality 5 food over beans every time. This isn't helped by the fact that sleet wheat can be found on ice planets so I can still get them if I want.

[zergologist]

Nosh sprout should produce more, be less finicky, and need less pwater per cycle. And for balance more phosphorite. That or tiny scale production at cheaper and more dupe involved. They seem like the old pincha pepper, which took waaaaaay too long to grow and way too annoying to farm lots of, and not worth it due to harvest times being too long. Nosh sprouts should get a rework anytime soon. And maybe the table salt recipe with dasha saltvines (as well as rust deoxidizers producing either iron ore or pure iron) And a rust recipe, but i'm getting ahead of myself. The point is nosh sprouts need a rework

[Elidrin]

As I understand it though sleet wheet is not always available, on rhime for example.

[Gurgel]

4 minutes ago, Elidrin said:

As I understand it though sleet wheet is not always available, on rhime for example.

On Rime only if there is a building that has them in an ice-biome. About 30% of the time, I would say. And the care-packages definitely cannot deliver any.

[Grimgaw]

Ice planets have Wheat as well as Wheezeworts.

[Gurgel]

19 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

Ice planets have Wheat as well as Wheezeworts.

Oh? I looked at 6 Rime maps in Sandbox and found SW hidden in buildings that have fog-of-war in 3 and none whatsoever in the other 3. 

[Grimgaw]

Just now, Gurgel said:

Ice planet

It's a rocket destination...

[Gurgel]

Just now, Grimgaw said:

It's a rocket destination...

Ah. Is an ice-planet assured?

[suicide commando]

Not 100% sure but I believe so. whenever I've looked up at the sky, I've always seen ice planets.

EDIT: Just checked wiki, it says that there is Always an ice planet at 40km away, so yes.

 

 

[Gurgel]

20 minutes ago, suicide commando said:

Not 100% sure but I believe so. whenever I've looked up at the sky, I've always seen ice planets.

EDIT: Just checked wiki, it says that there is Always an ice planet at 40km away, so yes.

Well, that is something.

[RonEmpire]

The slight difference between    BBQ   =  "Soul Food" debuff.   While you get a stress buff,  you're also getting a debuff on your speed (movement) -3 athletics.

If you're already have a stress reduction -% (the soul food's additional reduction is meaninglessly)    but  the -movement  is kind of bad. 

I mean you can already  get -5% stress from smelling flowers.  


Ideally the pepper bread is what you want.     I suppose the spicy tofu is 'alternative' to resource limited Asteroids where no sleet wheat are available.  Have to go to space to get the wheat.

[Promethien]

Edited with better info after the last update. Now they are only twice the cost of wheat instead of 4 times the cost. Still not in a good place.

[Gurgel]

4 hours ago, Promethien said:

Edited with better info after the last update. Now they are only twice the cost of wheat instead of 4 times the cost. Still not in a good place.

At the very least, they should make all dupes that eat them or things made from them produce tons of "natural gas"!

[Radam]

AND another change.

 

20kg of ethanol per cycle. Or 7.5 kg of polluted water less counted off the generator runoff. Or 8.5 when counting from arbor tree imput.

 

8 beans per tree.

[Promethien]

7.2 wild trees or 1.8 domesticated trees (after the patch on the day of this post) can run an ethanol distiller full time. This will produce enough ethanol to feed 15 bean plants. Ethanol freezes well below the bean plant's happy temp range so overall things are looking potentially pretty good for the beans now. I'll update the OP.

[CannedSmeef]

On 7/3/2019 at 9:50 PM, Promethien said:

Edit 7/19: New change. Beans now take 20kg ethanol per cycle grow. It takes 7.2 wild trees to support a full time distiller or 1.8 domesticated trees. A distiller can feed 15 bean plants. That is 8.4kg pwater per cycle per bean plant. 176kg pwater per harvest. Beans now require a great deal more labor and power to grow but are half the water cost of wheat. They can be water free if you set up a not unreasonable amount of wild trees.

This is one of the coolest changes to agriculture in a while.  People were passing around ethanol irrigation as a joke but Klei actually did it.  So in contrast to just being polluted sleet wheats, now nosh beans are actually much more liquid efficient than wheat, but now they require a lot of extra steps to get there.  Also cooling fresh ethanol down to nosh bean levels is going to be a pain.  Much more work involved with the process than in sleet wheat but in return you're gifted a greater efficiency on liquid.  I really like this change. 

[Promethien]

7 hours ago, CannedSmeef said:

This is one of the coolest changes to agriculture in a while.  People were passing around ethanol irrigation as a joke but Klei actually did it.  So in contrast to just being polluted sleet wheats, now nosh beans are actually much more liquid efficient than wheat, but now they require a lot of extra steps to get there.  Also cooling fresh ethanol down to nosh bean levels is going to be a pain.  Much more work involved with the process than in sleet wheat but in return you're gifted a greater efficiency on liquid.  I really like this change. 

Actually ethanol has a relatively low SHC so its rather easy to cool. An aquatuner can do it easy as long as you can swing the power.