Tobruk Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Sure, there are builds that overcome this issue and are relatively stable, but I doubt any new or moderately experienced player will figure by himself how the hell he should cool his miners and other equipment in space. It took my a couple of days of searching and trial and error to find out what the rules actually were. I'm talking specifically about these rules which absolutely ruin any vacuum builds: no heat transfer between floor and building no heat transfer between items on the floor and building no heat transfer between pipes behind the building and the building itself no heat transfer between background tiles and building Please, reconsider your approach to vacuum. I'm fed up with these rules after rebuilding my space scanner/miner setup the fifth time! It's single handedly one of the most infuriating aspects of an otherwise chill game! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/107617-rules-governing-thermal-transfer-in-vacuum-need-to-be-reconsidered/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwido Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 My opinion ? We just have to "fill" the vaccum At top of my rocket silos, I always place an auto-miner, and cool it with just an air vent, and some drywall behind. It's far enough. But I agree about one point. Buildings should exchange heat with the ground. The others seems normal to me. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/107617-rules-governing-thermal-transfer-in-vacuum-need-to-be-reconsidered/#findComment-1210608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaloneyOs Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 I second this. Buildings not exchanging heat with the surface that they're attached to was probably the biggest wtf when I first built stuff in space. Like I know this game isn't that obsessed with realism but this one is just so un-intuitive and feels consistently inconsistent. Even connected segments of wire don't exchange heat in a vacuum. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/107617-rules-governing-thermal-transfer-in-vacuum-need-to-be-reconsidered/#findComment-1210679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Buildings simply exchanging heat with the ground(surface they are attached to) would simplify space builds soo much. Actually if someone made a mod adding storage to the robo miner so it holds like 10kg of metal it would make the metal exchange heat with the miner as well as with the surface. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/107617-rules-governing-thermal-transfer-in-vacuum-need-to-be-reconsidered/#findComment-1210719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobruk Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share Posted June 16, 2019 Just now, Sasza22 said: Buildings simply exchanging heat with the ground(surface they are attached to) would simplify space builds soo much. Actually if someone made a mod adding storage to the robo miner so it holds like 10kg of metal it would make the metal exchange heat with the miner as well as with the surface. Storage doesn't need a medium of exchange with the ground? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/107617-rules-governing-thermal-transfer-in-vacuum-need-to-be-reconsidered/#findComment-1210722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, Tobruk said: Storage doesn't need a medium of exchange with the ground? Stuff in storage exchanges heat with 1 tile on the ground. If the storage is not "insulated" like rocket fuel tanks it should also exchange with the machine. If robo miners had an non insulated storage they would transfer heat with the ground. At least i think they would. I`m not 100% sure on that. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/107617-rules-governing-thermal-transfer-in-vacuum-need-to-be-reconsidered/#findComment-1210726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobruk Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share Posted June 16, 2019 Just now, Sasza22 said: Stuff in storage exchanges heat with 1 tile on the ground. If the storage is not "insulated" like rocket fuel tanks it should also exchange with the machine. If robo miners had an non insulated storage they would transfer heat with the ground. At least i think they would. I`m not 100% sure on that. Hm. That's interesting. Could be a handy workaround for modders like @Nightinggale that were trying to decipher the heat exchange mechanism. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/107617-rules-governing-thermal-transfer-in-vacuum-need-to-be-reconsidered/#findComment-1210727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightinggale Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, Tobruk said: Hm. That's interesting. Could be a handy workaround for modders like @Nightinggale that were trying to decipher the heat exchange mechanism. I know that, but I haven't found those calculations either. Besides it's a bit late now because now I have a paper full of calculations telling me stuff like if two GameObjects (pipe and building, but could be any) exchange temperature for an infinite amount of time, which temperature will they both end up with as well as how to use this info to move some heat each second based on thermal conductivity and stuff like that. Next step is the implementation, but even before finishing I could see I wouldn't like the performance, meaning now I'm far into a brand new design based on CS theory regarding performance rather than just copying the math into the code. At this point, even if I find the vanilla heat transfer code, I think I will just stick to my own. By now I'm interested in knowing how well it will behave and if it works as good ingame as on paper. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/107617-rules-governing-thermal-transfer-in-vacuum-need-to-be-reconsidered/#findComment-1210734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobruk Posted June 17, 2019 Author Share Posted June 17, 2019 Just now, Nightinggale said: I know that, but I haven't found those calculations either. Besides it's a bit late now because now I have a paper full of calculations telling me stuff like if two GameObjects (pipe and building, but could be any) exchange temperature for an infinite amount of time, which temperature will they both end up with as well as how to use this info to move some heat each second based on thermal conductivity and stuff like that. Next step is the implementation, but even before finishing I could see I wouldn't like the performance, meaning now I'm far into a brand new design based on CS theory regarding performance rather than just copying the math into the code. At this point, even if I find the vanilla heat transfer code, I think I will just stick to my own. By now I'm interested in knowing how well it will behave and if it works as good ingame as on paper. What are you changing regarding the heat transfer? What will this mod be about? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/107617-rules-governing-thermal-transfer-in-vacuum-need-to-be-reconsidered/#findComment-1210736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightinggale Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Just now, Tobruk said: What are you changing regarding the heat transfer? What will this mod be about? Moving heat from building to radiant pipe (well both ways). The goal is to cool buildings in the vacuum of space. That's pretty much what the title is about, right? I fully agree there should be a proper solution in the base game. However in the meantime I can experiment, right? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/107617-rules-governing-thermal-transfer-in-vacuum-need-to-be-reconsidered/#findComment-1210738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Players use vacuum to create a "perfect" insulation Removing that would break a lot of player builds Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/107617-rules-governing-thermal-transfer-in-vacuum-need-to-be-reconsidered/#findComment-1211850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekky Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 I agree with the original poster that the current behavior is unintuitive. It should be more realistic. What especially disturbs me is that buildings don't exchange heat with tempshift plates that are behind them.This makes it very hard to cool the polymer press without a liquid. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/107617-rules-governing-thermal-transfer-in-vacuum-need-to-be-reconsidered/#findComment-1211926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwido Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 8 hours ago, Neotuck said: Players use vacuum to create a "perfect" insulation Removing that would break a lot of player builds Even without a player's suggestion, it's an eventuality that can occur with each patch in a game. Metagames are often slayed on the altar of the balance. And from this point, players always find another way to solve the problem. 5 hours ago, Tekky said: What especially disturbs me is that buildings don't exchange heat with tempshift plates that are behind them.This makes it very hard to cool the polymer press without a liquid. Polymer press into vaccum ? O_o With the aquatuner, it's one of the building that heat the most in the game. For the tempshift plates. It's seems normal to me, because in vaccum, there's nothing between a building and the wall. So, no heat exchange. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/107617-rules-governing-thermal-transfer-in-vacuum-need-to-be-reconsidered/#findComment-1212033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekky Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 9 hours ago, Gwido said: For the tempshift plates. It's seems normal to me, because in vaccum, there's nothing between a building and the wall. So, no heat exchange. If the tempshift plates are in direct contact with the building, then there should be heat transfer, even in vacuum. If the player builds tempshift plates directly behind a building, then the game should assume that it is the intention of the player for the plates to act as a heatsink and assume that there is direct contact between them, so that the tempshift plates act as a heatsink. In that respect, the tempshift plates should act just like the heatsink of a CPU. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/107617-rules-governing-thermal-transfer-in-vacuum-need-to-be-reconsidered/#findComment-1212183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwido Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 4 hours ago, Tekky said: If the tempshift plates are in direct contact with the building, then there should be heat transfer, even in vacuum. If the player builds tempshift plates directly behind a building, then the game should assume that it is the intention of the player for the plates to act as a heatsink and assume that there is direct contact between them, so that the tempshift plates act as a heatsink. In that respect, the tempshift plates should act just like the heatsink of a CPU. Nope. Tempshift plates act as a mediator for the heat exchanges. It gives/gets heat from the gaz around. And the gas can then gives/gets heat to the buildings. Nothing says that the tempshift plate if sticked to the building. Or else, you couldn't buid one without a building in front of it. That's why the only real issue is between the ground tiles and the buildings. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/107617-rules-governing-thermal-transfer-in-vacuum-need-to-be-reconsidered/#findComment-1212255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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