What should be done to change Wheeler?

[Pooping_Pete]

Wheeler isn't that good right now, she loses 5 whole inventory slots, for two half baked tools, and a slightly good mechanic. These are my thoughts on what I'd do to change her: Wheeler has a pretty big downside and not a lot of good upsides. Her dodge ability is alright, I guess. It isn't anything amazing, but it is a little nice. I think the best way to describe it would be an off brand lazy explorer. I feel like the intended use of dodge, being that you can dodge enemy attacks, is kind of pointless. I mean for the amount of effort that you put into dodging, someone else could've just kited them. Plus some people play differently than others, I kite in such a way where it only requires one hand, I press W A S D for the kiting, and then 1 2 3 4 5 for my hot keys so I can switch weapons and such. Wheeler only supports this way of playing. If I were to put my mouse over the inventory and switch weapons that way, I would be put at a disadvantage, same thing for if I were to play with a controller. I feel like they should either embrace the dodge mechanic, make it amazing, or get rid of it. I'm leaning more for the side of get rid of it, simply because it doesn't really work with certain play styles. What I would instead do is maybe buff her speed, make it 1.5x that of Wilson's normal speed. This way players can actually dodge things instead of relying on a finicky two second pattern. This would still help Wheeler get around, as some people like to use dodge as basically a lazy explorer with infinite durability, so this movement speed buff would still support that play style too. 

Now for her two tools, clearly they must be useful if they take up some of my inventory, of which I don't have a lot of. Well, not exactly. The navigadget is useless, straight and simple. I don't really know any good use for this thing, especially late game uses. The pew-matic horn, well it isn't useless, but that doesn't really make it good either. It is way too confusing to use, so let me explain, at least what I got from it. Depending on what ammo you put inside the weapon, it will do more or less damage. The damage numbers are as follows: 0, 17, 34, and 37. That is just weird, like who thought of these numbers? Besides, 37 damage isn't a whole lot, especially considering some of the items you can put in there, such as centapiece oincs and obsidian. Not only this, but there are other, and better, alternatives for ranged weapons too that do almost 3 times as much damage. Not to mention that because of the low damage numbers, you are going to have to reload a lot, because you can only load in 6 shots at a time (also the fact that when pressing right click to put away items, it prioritizes Wheeler's dodge mechanic, so you have to manually put items away). Unlike the navigadget, I do feel like there is some potential in this. First, buff the damage so that it is something reasonable. I'm thinking of it being like this, 0, 15, 30, 45, and 100. Zero would be the same, obviously, as in items you cannot put in it. 15 would be items that are weak and soft, such as beefalo hair, reeds, and grass. 30 would be the "default" one, where anything that stacks up to 40 and wasn't already in 15, 45, or 100 goes here. These would include items such as sticks, corks, and oincs (I'll explain later why oincs are here). 45 would be where the item would actually kind of hurt if it got shot at you, like it is hard, or pointy, such as rocks, flint, cactus, and tenpiece oinc. Lastly, 100, these would be items that are expensive, such as the centapiece oinc, gunpowder, and obsidian. So the reason I put the oincs where they are, is because right now, the pew-matic horn treats all the oincs as the same. This means that if you put in one oinc, you'll do 37 damage. If you put in a centapiece oinc, you will do the same amount of damage, effectively wasting 99 oincs. If they don't buff the damage, at least change this. Next thing I would buff about the pew-matic horn would be the clip size. Right now, you can only load six shots at a time into the pew-matic horn, which is stupid. Literally every single item that can be used in the pew-matic horn has to stack up to 40, so why not let the clip be 40?

My last suggestion would probably be something new. Something like her own unique crafting tab, or maybe she can access certain areas that other characters can't or at least can't early on. I'm not very good at thinking of new concepts, unless if I wanted to be here for even longer. No matter if my ideas will be taken exactly or not, Wheeler does need a change.

[. . .]

5 hours ago, Pooping_Pete said:

I feel like they should either embrace the dodge mechanic, make it amazing, or get rid of it. I'm leaning more for the side of get rid of it, simply because it doesn't really work with certain play styles.

Many characters don't work with certain play styles it doesn't mean they should remove them too.. not every character is for everyone.

Her dodge mechanic is great and if anything Klei should only improve on it, removing the dodge ability and replacing it with a speed boost or just removing it completely would be extremely lazy and stupid because the dodge is what makes her feel more unique compared to other characters and it has its uses.

Changes to her which I personally feel would improve her is.

1) Making how far her dodge travels dependent on the turf you're sliding on, such as sliding further on swamp turf because it's slippery while not being able to slide on spider web turf because it's sticky.

2) Allowing the key which activates dodge to be configured to any key the player wants instead of locking it to right click.

3) Allowing shift click on an item to just fill her gun with ammo like how it's used to transfer items between containers  and maybe add a reload animation whenever she puts something into her gun so in that animation if you're using the gun very frequently in combat you're a little vulnerable while in the reloading state.

3) Remove her con of less inventory space and instead make torso and head gear slow her down based on how heavy they are ranging from 10%-15%-20% speed penalties.

4) Give her a natural small speed boost or even the ability to start running faster by pressing a key which is configurable, but hunger drain also gets faster, basically a sprint action. Though, probably wouldn't happen since it would be too much effort for Klei to do..

5) Allow her to craft/upgrade her pew-matic into different versions which have different pros and cons such as shooting faster/slower, dealing more/less damage, having more/less ammo capacity, or even some uniquer abilities. And if you don't want that upgrade and she can't craft her pew-matic then make them hammerable and they give back the original pew-matic then she can turn it into any variant whenever she wants (if you have the resources).

6) If these changes are too overpowered then she could have lower max health such as 100-125 instead of 150 and probably increase her hunger rate by 10%-25%. If this happens then I think a good change to her dodge would be to make the cooldown from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds and when she double dodges (preforming a dodge while in a dodge) she will be in a state where she slides a little bit extra but isn't invulnerable so she's left a little bit vulnerable to getting hit and it also makes preforming double dodges not always ideal.

 

Personally I feel these changes would make her even more fun to play as then she already is, but to be honest doubt it will happen since most official characters have to feel very lackluster and uncomplicated in playstyle like Wilson, Winona, ect.. So, my ideas may feel more like a mod character version of Wheeler.. It all depends on how much effort Klei wants to put into making Wheeler fun to play as, I mean they updated Wilba with a werepig form and made her have more depth to her character so maybe they will make Wheeler have even more stuff to play around with too !

[JJ0264]

hunger:125  sanity:150  health:175 (lower hunger and higher health due to adventurist lifestyle)

+ 1.25x speed (new) a built-in walking cane speed without a walking cane!

+ Pea-matic gun (buff) always does 68 damage, max ammo is 10 and only accepts rock/sharp related materials (no coins/onics)

+ Navi-gadget (tweak) it's in her ''2nd hand-slot'' and she can't drop it

 

+ Dodge (the same)

- less inventory (-5)

[FreyaMaluk]

1 hour ago, JJ0264 said:

hunger:125  sanity:150  health:175 (lower hunger and higher health due to adventurist lifestyle)

+ 1.25x speed (new) a built-in walking cane speed without a walking cane!

+ Pea-matic gun (buff) always does 68 damage, max ammo is 10 and only accepts rock/sharp related materials (no coins/onics)

+ Navi-gadget (tweak) it's in her ''2nd hand-slot'' and she can't drop it

 

+ Dodge (the same)

- less inventory (-5)

that all together seem OP.. really that weapon always deals 68 dmg? same as a cutlass supreme?

I can't even... this is just so OP

[JJ0264]

22 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

that all together seem OP.. really that weapon always deals 68 dmg? same as a cutlass supreme?

I can't even... this is just so OP

Basic Spear: melee: 34 dmg, 150 uses, total: 5100 (cost) 1 rope, 1 flint, 2 twigs

Dark Sword: melee: 68 dmg, 100 uses, total: 6800 (cost) 1 living log, 5 nightmare fuel

Blow-Dart: range: 100 dmg, 1 uses, total: 100 (cost) 2 reeds, 1 tooth, 1 white feather

Pew-Gun: range: 68 dmg, 10 ammo, total: 680 (cost) 10 rock/sharp materials or 100 rocks for a range dark sword (which is resource heavy in early/mid-game)

Keep in mind that her 2nd downside is lower stats, this Wheeler buff is just a rough idea and could play differently in-game than on paper

(I could change it down to 50 damage and reloads could be slower if that helps)

[FreyaMaluk]

7 minutes ago, JJ0264 said:

Basic Spear: melee: 34 dmg, 150 uses, total: 5100 (cost) 1 rope, 1 flint, 2 twigs

Dark Sword: melee: 68 dmg, 100 uses, total: 6800 (cost) 1 living log, 5 nightmare fuel

Blow-Dart: range: 100 dmg, 1 uses, total: 100 (cost) 2 reeds, 1 tooth, 1 white feather

Pew-Gun: range: 68 dmg, 10 ammo, total: 680 (cost) 10 rock/sharp materials or 100 rocks for a range dark sword (which is resource heavy in early/mid-game)

Keep in mind that her 2nd downside is lower stats, this Wheeler buff is just a rough idea and could play differently in-game than on paper

(I could change it down to 50 damage and reloads could be slower if that helps)

ik this table... what's the difference?

Pew gun is infinite and you'll be using common items like rocks for 68 dmg? that's completely OP

even with reduced stats this is just too much... I'm sorry but you can ask for a mod to change this... but not for all players

and that on top of no inv penalties + speed??

[JJ0264]

20 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

ik this table... what's the difference?

Pew gun is infinite and you'll be using common items like rocks for 68 dmg? that's completely OP

even with reduced stats this is just too much... I'm sorry but you can ask for a mod to change this... but not for all players

If you think the buffed Pew-matic horn is OP I'd say drop it altogether because as of right now a spears/dark swords is better in almost everyway especially for a character who's better at kiting, there cheaper and lasts longer

she'll need 100 rocks/flint to be on par with spears

(the pea-gun is on par with Wilbur's poop throwing plus he can carry more stuff)

[FreyaMaluk]

6 minutes ago, JJ0264 said:

If you think the buffed Pew-matic horn is OP I'd say drop it altogether because as of right now a spears/dark swords is better in almost everyway especially for a character who's better at kiting, there cheaper and lasts longer

she'll need 100 rocks/flint to be on par with spears

(the pea-gun is on par with Wilbur's poop throwing plus he can carry more stuff)

rn rocks deal 34 dmg with her gun.. what are u talking about

[JJ0264]

13 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

rn rocks deal 34 dmg with her gun.. what are u talking about

The Pea-gun does different damage depending on what ammo you're using, lowest being 17 (grass) and highest being 37 (rocks) at least that's what it says on the Don't Starve Wiki

Spear= 2 twigs, 1 flint, 1 rope (3 grass) = 150 uses, total 5100 dmg

Pea-gun= with 6 rocks/flint = total 222 dmg

[FreyaMaluk]

6 minutes ago, JJ0264 said:

The Pea-gun does different damage depending on what ammo you're using, lowest being 17 (grass) and highest being 37 (rocks) at least that's what it says on the Don't Starve Wiki

Spear= 2 twigs, 1 flint, 1 rope (3 grass) = 150 uses, total 5100 dmg

Pea-gun= with 6 rocks/flint = total 222 dmg

so what... you cannot compare dropping a rock to get 34 dmg with asking that the same rock gives 68 dmg.. that's insane--- and rocks are renewable in SW

u can have a stack of 40 rocks and shoot them from afar mind u... not risking really armor 

that's 1.360 dmg.. in one rock stack.. which is totally doable

[JJ0264]

51 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

so what... you cannot compare dropping a rock to get 34 dmg with asking that the same rock gives 68 dmg.. that's insane--- and rocks are renewable in SW

Insane? I'm just saying the Pea-gun communes 1 material for a 34 dmg, whereas a spear cost 6 materials for 150 x 34 damage; Again for a character who can kite better, Melee sounds like smarter option imo.

Pea-gun should be buffed or be removed entirely and things like less varied ammo (stingers only) or slower fire rates/reloads could help make it feel less op

(on a side note: rocks are renewable in Rog and now Hamlet)

[FreyaMaluk]

54 minutes ago, JJ0264 said:

Insane? I'm just saying the Pea-gun communes 1 material for a 34 dmg, whereas a spear cost 6 materials for 150 x 34 damage; Again for a character who can kite better, Melee sounds like smarter option imo.

Pea-gun should be buffed or be removed entirely and things like less varied ammo (stingers only) or slower fire rates/reloads could help make it feel less op

(on a side note: rocks are renewable in Rog and now Hamlet)

If ever compare to darts.. Another range weapon.. Compare the amount of resources you need for one dart.. 2 reeds + hounds tooth + Azure feather for 100 dmg vs one simple Rock that u can mass farm in one stack of 40 dealing 34 dmg each.. Like.. Pls.. 

[JJ0264]

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

If ever compare to darts.. Another range weapon.. Compare the amount of resources you need for one dart.. 2 reeds + hounds tooth + Azure feather for 100 dmg vs one simple Rock that u can mass farm in one stack of 40 dealing 34 dmg each.. Like.. Pls.. 

Yah that's true, but darts are generally aren't practical enough for the cost anyway, by the time I get to that point where I have a 200 leftover rocks I already have the best weapon & armor in the game

Even if I didn't (best weapon/armor) I would much rather craft a basic spear than waste a stack of rocks (which could be used for other things like a 2nd base)

I would trade the Pea-gun for built-in walking cane speed since it combos well with the Navi-gadget, the dodge ability and suits the adventure type character; It's actually useful both in exploring (early-game) and combat (mid/late game).

Because of the speed boost she can wear things like piggy-bags to negate her downside or she can wear marble armor with -5 speed instead of -30 (also Double walking cane sounds awesome for Wheeler)

As for the Navi-gadget (Tweak) it's always in her "2nd hand slot", that way she could see her gadget while using a torch; You can't drop it though, so that way the player can't have double ham-bats

[FreyaMaluk]

5 hours ago, JJ0264 said:

Yah that's true, but darts are generally aren't practical enough for the cost anyway, by the time I get to that point where I have a 200 leftover rocks I already have the best weapon & armor in the game

Even if I didn't (best weapon/armor) I would much rather craft a basic spear than waste a stack of rocks (which could be used for other things like a 2nd base)

I would trade the Pea-gun for built-in walking cane speed since it combos well with the Navi-gadget, the dodge ability and suits the adventure type character; It's actually useful both in exploring (early-game) and combat (mid/late game).

Because of the speed boost she can wear things like piggy-bags to negate her downside or she can wear marble armor with -5 speed instead of -30 (also Double walking cane sounds awesome for Wheeler)

As for the Navi-gadget (Tweak) it's always in her "2nd hand slot", that way she could see her gadget while using a torch; You can't drop it though, so that way the player can't have double ham-bats

So you say rocks are ez, which was my argument all along, and range weapons are inconvenient, which was my point all along.

Exactly. Lol. Devs want range weapons to be hard to exploit cuz u are avoiding taking direct damage. 

Rocks vs Flint

Why are you comparing rocks VS a Spear? 

We already suggested with @Angel_Octoling speed base mechanics in another thread.. More or less a sprint that consumes hunger

The second hand addition is pretty not gonna happen... It has been suggested countless times already... And it would be like an invisible extra slot with no real downsides... 

What else should we give her? wings and one hit kill? 

[JJ0264]

9 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Why are you comparing rocks VS a Spear? 

Like I said a MILLION times which sounds better and remember Wheeler can kite better (if you can't read, this might be difficult for you)

waste a stack of rocks for a total of 1360 DAMAGE

or just craft a spear for a total of 5100 DAMAGE

9 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

The second hand addition is pretty not gonna happen... It has been suggested countless times already... And it would be like an invisible extra slot with no real downsides... 

What else should we give her? wings and one hit kill? 

Did you even read my comment, you can't drop the Navi-gadget it's always in the "2nd hand slot"; Yes it is more or less an extra slot, reasoning behide this idea is to see your gadget while using a torch, besides the Navi-gadget only for early-game and isn't useful enough for a downside.

Well all I hear from you is just complaining without any/very little ideas to make Wheeler better/interesting; it's just a rough idea, it's not perfect 

Wings/One hit kills don't even fit the explorer type of character what you said was weird