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Theukon-dos

Character Reworks/tweak suggestions

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Theukon-dos    2,178

Wilson: 

   Serves his role well, no changes needed

 

Willow:

    I'm honestly not sure how to change her, but making it so that she can actually survive being insane would be a good start.

 

Wolfgang: 

     No longer has a speed boost when Mighty

Notes: Speed is a very good stat in general, and I've seen a good few people say that essentially having a free walking cane is a large part of what pushes him "over the edge". This change would (hopefully) bring him down a notch while still keeping his utility of being able to kill everything faster

 

Wigfrid: 

     gains 25-33% speed boost *while in combat*

     Has a higher aggro priority.

     Natural damage resistance applies before armor.

Notes: Wigfrid on her own is a good character, However, she's Largely overshadowed by Wolfgang due to having more damage, higher effective HP, and being able to kite enemies more easily. The Speed boost during combat Helps Wigfrid move out of Wolfgang's shadow and let them co-exist a bit more peacefully, with Wolfgang being able to deal more damage and having a higher effective hp, while Wigfrid deals a bit less damage while being able to kite enemies a bit more efficiently. In addition, I also suggest giving Wigfrid a higher agro Priority. this means that Mobs Will prioritize attacking Wigfrid if they have the choice, Wigfrid will be able to pull mobs away from other targets easier, and Other targets won't aggro mobs targeting Wigfrid as Easily. This change combined with the speed boost gives Wigfrid a bit of a supporting role on the team, Being able to keep a mob or bosses' agro while teammates go ham(bat), all while keeping her Identity as a fighter. As for that bit about her natural resistance applying before armor, That shouldn't affect her survivability in any way, but it should lower the amount of damage that armor takes, which fits again into that "agro tank", for lack of a better term.

 

Wendy: 

     Abigail is now neutral and will only attack targets you actively engage

     Abigail will retreat on low HP

     Damage reduction no longer applies to bosses.

Notes: I haven't played Wendy much myself, but to my knowledge, one of her biggest issues is with Abigail's tendency to die (again) against strong bosses. her retreating wouldn't make her any more useful against bosses, but at the very least you won't have to summon her again. The change to damage is because making a boss fight take longer doesn't make it any harder, just more tedious. And when bosses can start having several hundred thousand HP... it just gets really tedious. 

 

WX-78:

     No longer gets healing from food.

     has reduced duration from followers

Notes: WX is one of, if not the most powerful characters in the game.  Between Having the highest max healthpool by a longshot (and not even when fully upgraded), having the potential to be the fastest character by a longshot, and having negligible downsides, it's easy to see why. As Such, I think the best and most logical course of action is to give Wormwood's downside of "no healing from food" to him. This would make the early game a bit harder (though not too hard if you know what you're doing, as in DST WX and Wormwood have the same base health), would help counteract his upgraded healthpool, be an indirect buff to his other downside (as he wouldn't be able to heal a storm's worth of damage with 1 or 2 trail mix), and give healing items an actual use. He would also still be able to heal with gears, but I'd wager that those are a bit more of an investment than Pierogies or Dragon pie.  The reduced duration from followers downside is an attempt to make his motto "EMPATHY MODULE NOT RESPONDING" part of his actual character, though I'm not sure how much that actually does that. I would have just said "can't befriend followers", but then you wouldn't be able to farm werepigs.

 

Wickerbottom

     Reduced health to 100-125

     Adjusted book costs

     "on tentacles" now spawns Shadow tentacles that don't drop items, but can re-gen health.

     Can no longer read books if she can't pay the sanity penalty.

Notes: Wickerbottom's Farming potential is unmatched. as such, it feels appropriate to reduce her health to compensate. Not quite so low as Maxwells, but it's still definitely something you need to keep track of, not to mention she's already an old lady, so it makes sense for her to be a bit more fragile. The books are currently a bit too cheap for how much they do, though I'm not sure how you would make them more expensive without just being a time sink. this is also why I suggested the change to On tentacles, because as it stands you're pretty much guaranteed to get a net gain on tentacle spots, though the book should still be renewable via Tentepillars. as finally, the Sanity changes is to make it so that you can't just spam books, and need to make a few more preparations beforehand.

 

Woodie

     Increase swing speed with all tools (Lucy is still the best Axe)

     Let Werebeaver access the map and inventory

     Increase Werebeaver health to 250-300

     Increase Werebeaver damage to 50-51

     Give Werebeaver 50-65% damage resistance.

Notes: The main thing I see people say when they Talk about Woody is how much worse he is at collecting resources than Maxwell, and I have to agree there. By Buffing Werebeaver to be closer to DS, while also giving it some of the perks that WereWilba has, Woody should be able to stand out a bit more, though it could use a bit of Tweaking.

 

Wes

     Normal damage modifier against bosses

Notes: Wes is the challenge character, However, as I said with Wendy, Taking longer to kill bosses doesn't really make them harder, it just makes it more tedious.

 

Maxwell: He's fine, to my knowledge. Maybe a slight health increase to 85-95, but overall he's fine

 

Webber: 

     let him start and craft the Shamlet mask from the Hamlet DLC

Notes: Webber Isn't a bad character, However, His playstyle is so drastically different from the others that they conflict quite hard. Giving him the Shamlet mask allows him to play as a team a bit easier while still keeping what makes him Webber

 

Winona:

     replace catapult texture with a trenchbucket, the superior siege weapon

     Let the spotlight have a toggleable mod that lets it emit light in an AOE, but with shorter range

     Replace the GEMerator with a Scaled Boiler. requires Scales, Red gems, Water balloons, and Electrical doodads. Is expensive, but gives infinite power

Notes: I'm not going to Wild with Winona, since we only know her re-work on Paper, however, the Spotlight sounds niche at best, and the GEMerator, while technically renewable power, requires you to either kill the Dragonfly over and over again, or kill the ancient Fuelweaver and clear the ruins repeatedly. the Area mode for the spotlight gives it the utility of a non-fire light source. and the Scaled boiler lets you set up places that consistently need power.

 

So yeah, those are my ideas for character re-works. If you have any tweaks or feedback, do please let me know.

     

 

 

 

     

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4 Da LOLs    2,233
1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

Webber: 

     let him start and craft the Shamlet mask from the Hamlet DLC

Notes: Webber Isn't a bad character, However, His playstyle is so drastically different from the others that they conflict quite hard. Giving him the Shamlet mask allows him to play as a team a bit easier while still keeping what makes him Webber

 

maybe allow the breeding of more powerful super spiders to make them more long term viable when killing bosses and yeah a shamlet may be good

 

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

Wickerbottom

     Reduced health to 100-125

     Adjusted book costs

     "on tentacles" now spawns Shadow tentacles that don't drop items, but can re-gen health.

     Can no longer read books if she can't pay the sanity penalty.

Notes: Wickerbottom's Farming potential is unmatched. as such, it feels appropriate to reduce her health to compensate. Not quite so low as Maxwells, but it's still definitely something you need to keep track of, not to mention she's already an old lady, so it makes sense for her to be a bit more fragile. The books are currently a bit too cheap for how much they do, though I'm not sure how you would make them more expensive without just being a time sink. this is also why I suggested the change to On tentacles, because as it stands you're pretty much guaranteed to get a net gain on tentacle spots, though the book should still be renewable via Tentepillars. as finally, the Sanity changes is to make it so that you can't just spam books, and need to make a few more preparations beforehand.

what if after like 50-70 days there is a chance for her to die of age so she has to keep getting rezed of course you will be notified days before to prep resurrection

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Seems like you want to nerf the more frequently played characters. I'd much rather buff the less used characters.

 And not all old people have glass bones, being old shouldn't be a reason to decrease a characters health. I'd much rather see a better use for Wicker's bird book. Either that or change it completely. I don't really find gathering different kinds of feathers that hard. And never saw much of a reason to use that book.

Maybe an increase in duration/speed of all things fire related for Willow. So fires last longer within a certain range of Willow, and food cooks faster. Wilson certainly needs something. It always seems like a waste to see someone with that character. I would like to bump Maxwell's health up to a solid 100. But maybe lower his hunger some to account for the change. I would love for a durability increase related to one of the characters when they craft things. It makes sense to me to apply it to Winona, but they just finished her remake. But adding it in with her remake just makes her too strong. And Wilson only sort of seems like the type of person who tinkers with things to make them better. As opposed to making new and unique items.

And not really character related, but disallow players to set spider nests near the Postern. I see more Webbers troll this way, more than I see Willows troll with fire.

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On 3/3/2019 at 5:31 PM, 4 Da LOLs said:

what if after like 50-70 days there is a chance for her to die of age so she has to keep getting rezed of course you will be notified days before to prep resurrection

This is the most hilarious, and also possibly the best, suggestion for a Wicker nerf that I have ever heard.

4 hours ago, eternalLocket said:

Seems like you want to nerf the more frequently played characters. I'd much rather buff the less used characters.

I get you, but I generally have the opposite philosophy, especially regarding the blatantly overpowered Wickerbottom. DS distinguishes itself from other survival sandbox games partly through its campy aesthetic, but also partly through how cruel and punishing it's supposed to be. When there are characters who can thrive as consistently as Wickerbottom and generate an abundance of otherwise-rare resources easily, I feel like it's time to take them down a peg or three.

4 hours ago, eternalLocket said:

 And not all old people have glass bones, being old shouldn't be a reason to decrease a characters health. I'd much rather see a better use for Wicker's bird book. Either that or change it completely. I don't really find gathering different kinds of feathers that hard. And never saw much of a reason to use that book.

Being old isn't necessarily a reason, but being absurdly high-utility is. She needs to pay with something. Wendy has *one* good utility spell and she pays for it through the nose with her low damage modifier. Wickerbottom has *six* good utility abilities and she only pays for them with things that she probably wasn't inclined to use anyway. Sleeping is usually inferior to pierogi/cactus for regaining health and sanity, and food is easy to keep fresh with a fridge and bundling wrap.

Birds of the World has two uses. One is to rapidly increase your Naughtiness and summon Krampus. Wickerbottom can summon dozens of Krampii per day by murdering birds in quick succession, so she can obtain a Krampus Sack in just a few days of work while other characters have to wait for years unless they get lucky (1% chance to drop from Krampus, 10% chance to drop from Klaus but he can only be fought once a year).

The other use is to farm arbitrarily high numbers of Azure Feathers and Saffron Feathers. I believe you when you say gathering different kinds of feathers isn't that hard--I'm sure the amount that you get is more than sufficient for your playstyle--but you have to understand that Wickerbottom is playing on another level here. She combines Birds of the World and Applied Horticulture to generate infinite feathers and infinite cut reeds, to make infinite blow darts and electric darts. Imagine having the ability to spend blow darts and electric darts, not as a special tool to keep in reserve for emergencies and boss fights, but for *everyday use* like a hambat or Wigfrid's battle spear. 180-300 DPS, *from range, whenever you want*. And that's just one facet of Wickerbottom's power.

4 hours ago, eternalLocket said:

Wilson certainly needs something. It always seems like a waste to see someone with that character.

100% in agreement here. I like most of Theukon-dos' suggestions but Wilson is not serving his role well. His beard growth is fun and quirky, but it has nothing to do with his character as a Gentleman Scientist, and it is not nearly useful enough to bring him to parity with the rest of the cast.

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4 Da LOLs    2,233
1 hour ago, Swanky Psammead said:

This is the most hilarious, and also possibly the best, suggestion for a Wicker nerf that I have ever heard.

when i said that i was both joking and literal it would be a thing that makes sense for her and with the tale-tale heart I think its both pretty reasonable and comical

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4 Da LOLs    2,233

they might be altering the characters to make them all only work in teams

Winos downsides are negated by a friend to craft for you , you need a friend to succeed

and we know all characters are going through the reworks so i think that they will make DST even more single-player hostile

as a person who can't get any friends to coordinate DST and hates random servers this is horrible

i don't want another game like overwatch to if you don't work as a team you basically can't do a thing

i always felt like this game had about the same teamwork as in TF2 to which you can have a team but you aren't restricted to it to succeed

and some may say just play DS but what about the new content, characters, skins, events, more mods, and graphical improvements 

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JohnWatson    3,450
On 3/3/2019 at 10:23 PM, Theukon-dos said:

Wilson: 

   Serves his role well, no changes needed

wilson doesn't serve a role, he needs a rework, which klei is already working on (shadow arm update)

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Theukon-dos    2,178

Wilson is the simple character. He has no downsides and a negligible upside. That's his niche. A nice, simple character without all the bells and whistles

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Theukon-dos    2,178
3 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

too bad, he's getting a shadow arm

tumblr_mn9sjdXyEV1rwuy3uo1_1280.png

Better idea. Give him a flammenwerfer, if we're going to change him

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19 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Wilson is the simple character. He has no downsides and a negligible upside. That's his niche.

His lack of substantial upsides is a massive downside. The opportunity cost of not being able to do anything special makes him cripplingly underpowered. His buff can be mechanically simple, if simplicity is important to his identity, but one way or another he needs to be buffed.

not sure the shadow arm will be enough tbh, he might need weejay as his personal follower mob

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