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MadTheUltimate

Automated Rocket Launching and Landing (And Max possible Time window for safe Landing )

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So I finally created fully automated Rocket Launching and Landing System.

Videos of Launching and Landing is at end

Requirement : A Scanner Network of 6 Scanner for prediction of incoming objects with 100% efficiency (if lower then timing in gates have to be set very carefully).

 

5c2d290e0849b_Screenshot(128).thumb.png.762d52362ae24cb8c39b344ca0e7d0f2.png

 

Right Side Circuit is for Rocket Launching and Left Side Circuit is for Rocket Returning and Gantry Opening and Closing.

Features : 1.Rocket becomes able to Launch When User had authorized the Launch(Lower Right corner Clock Sensor).

                 2.Rocket becomes able to Launch When No meteorite Shower(Lower Right corner AND gate right Input).

                 3.Rocket becomes able to Launch When Rocket is Ready for Launch and its Output Port becomes Active(Middle Right Side AND gate Left Input)

                   (Rocket INPUT and OUTPUT port is in Center)

                 4.Bunker Door Opens when all three above condition are satisfied [i.e. Output from OR gate(Connected to door, Right Side Second gate from top) becomes Active which is receiving Active input for either rocket launch or rocket return(Explained later After Point No.9) from each of its input ports].

So in actual first three cases are for setting up the condition favorable for launching the rocket and bunker door opening and actual rocket launch happens when....(Explained later Point No. 7)

                 5.Also As soon as rocket is ready Gantry is closed whose input comes from Memory Toggle Gate followed by a not gate.You can see Output from Rocket Port Split into two one goes to Launching System(Point No. 3 above) and others goes to Left Side from top 3rd automation wire to Set port of Memory Toggle gate which makes its output active and after that NOT gate makes it Inactive which goes to Gantry input ant it is closed (Memory Toggle gate is in Upper Left below Scanner and just right side of it is NOT gate). Here it has to be used a Memory Toggle gate because gantry is to be kept closed till rocket had returned and then open it after rocket landing (Explained later after Point No.9 )

                 6.Space Scanner(set to detect rocket) only becomes Active when Gantry is closed meaning either Rocket is in Space or Going to be launched.For it to be happened Power Supply of rocket is Resumed and Paused by a power switch whose input comes from Gantry condition followed by a NOT gate(NOT gate and power switch is in Lower Left Corner).

                 7.Now After Point No. 4 Output from OR gate also goes to a Filter gate then to input port of Rocket. Filter gate adds a delay of 40 seconds(Bunker Door opening Time) for becoming its output Active after its Input had become active and Bunker Door had Started to Open. After 40 seconds door had opened and and filter gate output had become active so does the Input for Rocket Becomes Active and Finally Rocket is Launched .:)

                 8.After rocket is Launched the Output from Rocket Output port becomes Inactive So the both Inputs of OR gate becomes Inactive So does for Doors and it is closed.Also Note that the Output from Rocket port becomes Inactive after sufficient time enough for rocket to get out of Launch Tube and go above Doors in Space, as soon as it becomes Inactive doors can start closing and not collide with flying Rocket.

                 

When Rocket is returning we want:

1.The Bunker Doors To Open - Seems simple as output from scanner becomes active so we can connect it to OR gate with an delay of 160 seconds [200(Advance Prediction) - 40(Door opening) = 160] provided by filter gate and open the door :D but be careful and watch ;) it is more  complex than it seems and It took me a lot of time to figure it because of lot of uncertainties like: Meteorite shower comes during warning, Meteorite Damage when door is opened, etc....

2.The Gantry To Open After Rocket Had Landed - We can provide the output from the scanner which becomes active if a rocket is incoming to gantry with some delay to open the gantry.I have tasted that at 100% signal strength 200 warning time is for rocket to enter inside the map and after that more time is needed for for rocket to land on platform on which it was build.Also the Output from Scanner will be active for entire period of 200 sec of warning and after till it had landed on its platform.So gantry should open after 200 sec + landing time.For me Landing time after 200 seconds was somewhere between 35 to 40 seconds and I took it about 40 for well beyond safety .So Gantry should be opened after 245 Seconds 5 seconds to make sure rocket had landed. I think Landing time may also vary upon position of Platform in Map if someone had checked it let me Know. As it can't be achieved with one gate (as>200) So had to be used two continuous gate in output of scanner before going to gantry.

 

If You only want to know the Delay Time between Rocket Detection and Bunker Door Opening i.e. time to be given to filter gate Go to Bold and Underlined statement just above Point No.9 Because Believe me Below section for reason is going to be get Interesting ;) .

 

Uncertainty to be considered and its effects for opening of bunker doors:

1.Rocket Incoming is detected by rocket scanner After a meteorite shower had already been detected by scanner network (Vice versa of this is always safe you can check): In this case rocket landing time will always lies after the doors of scanner networks had closed fully (as both prediction time was same of 200 sec),Then after that signal strengths will fall 0% and the rocket scanner will loose its signal for rocket incoming and bunker doors will not open (As I have tested that the signal for rocket incoming doesn't hold in scanner till the rocket had landed unlike meteorite shower in which signal of shower is hold up in scanner till it is over if otherwise let me know). But this can be overcame just by adding two buffer gate for 250 seconds (two gate is needed as >200 sec) holding up of Active signal from scanner. So now we are able to even open up the doors for incoming rocket whose signal is received just before the start of meteorite shower or fully closing of scanner network doors and signal strength loos to 0%. well the Rocket whose detection time is after that are still in unsafe zone breaking of Bunker Doors.

But we also know that each shower in Meteorite Season is of about 100 to 400 Seconds long according to ONI Meteorology by R9MX4.

First consider smallest Shower of 100 Sec in this case time for signal strength for staying at 0% is during the entire period of shower plus some time after which scanner network become active (i.e. most people keeps that time of 50 seconds 40 for door opening and 10 for falling of regolith on ground). So After 150 second the signal is restored again to 100%. Considered the Rocket which was scheduled to be detected just after closing of bunker door of scanner network now after signal gain it had still left 50 seconds [200(Prediction time)-150(time after which signal is fully restored in case of 100 sec shower) = 50] before it comes to land  so it will be instantly detected after signal gain and doors had to opened in next 50 seconds unlike the normal cases when door had to be opened in 200 second. So now comes the decision of deciding the delay time for bunker door opening after rocket detection that we talked above in section about what we want if rocket returns (Point no.1 which is in Bold letters). However earlier in that section we said we can keep it 160 second just by subtracting 40 sec of door opening time from prediction time of 200 sec but now had only left with 10 sec [50(time after which door to be opened)-40(Bunker Door opening time)= 10] to provide for filter gate.If we give 0 Second delay than in case of 110 sec shower can also be overcame safely.

Now with 0 seconds as filter gate input we check for longest shower of 400 second and which rocket incoming cases can be survived. For 400 sec shower signal lost time is 450 seconds [400(shower duration)+50(time after which scanner network restart). So  among all rockets incoming after signal loos or door closing of scanner network for this 400 sec shower, Safe Rocket Incoming will be those whose detection time is 110 seconds [200(Prediction time)-50(time after which scanner network restart)-40(Bunker Door opening time) = 110] before the ending of the 400 seconds shower. And It will remain same as 110 seconds for all shower smaller than 400 seconds up to shower of length 110 second for which all rockets incoming will be safe. So for maximum safety of Bunker door we get that With 0 second as delay i.e. Filter Gate Delay Time  between rocket detection and closing of bunker doors The Rockets which will break the Bunker Doors are those which is scheduled to be detected just after fully closing of scanner network door and before the 110 seconds of ending of shower for shower of greater than 110 second lengths

2.Meteorite Damage: As Just above we said that 0 second as filter gate input will be good and maximize the time for safe rocket landing but Also in Normal cases of No Meteorite shower It will keep the door open for 290 seconds [250(time for which Rocket scanner gives active signal as explained in above section of what we want if rocket returns (Point no.2 which is in Bold letters)) + 40 second(Bunker door opening time) = 290] plus 250 seconds of buffer gate cool down time So max time of Gate left open is 540 seconds during which it can take damage if possibly any meteorite shower starts to happen. During meteorite session breaks last for 300 to 1200 seconds so for 540 second their is a good chance of starting a shower. But if Rocket incoming is detected just before the fully closing of scanner network door or signal lost to 0% or just before start of Meteorite shower which all three are same, then With Certainty as shower had already came For The entire time of 290 seconds All things inside launch tube will have a chance to take meteorite damage and be destroyed. But if you have least items inside the tube and all walls are made of bunker tiles then it will be still OK to give 0 seconds as delay. Be careful with placement of Rocket detecting scanner because if it is inside launch tube and it gets destroyed by meteorite shower then whole things can reset. In my case I had placed it under the bunker door which is not opened the rocket launching and landing as you can see automation wire is only connected to two bunker doors which are just above rockets. And Also even if it get destroyed and signals become inactive still all will remain fine as its output is connected with two continuous Buffer gate that we talked above point no.1.

One other way of taking meteorite damage is when rocket had landed during unsafe time by breaking the doors and broken bunker doors allow the meteorite to pass through so it will damage the things inside launch tube.


So From Above two points we can decide the delay time between Rocket detection and Door opening based on Giving Importance to: First How much long we want the Safe time window for Safe Rocket Landing without Breaking Bunker Doors (Broken bunker will also cause meteorite damage during shower) and Second How much meteorite damage we can afford inside Launch Tube during the time of door left opened. Longest Safe time window is possible with lowest Delay time of 0 second and Least Meteorite Damage is possible with longest Delay Time of 160 Seconds. For me After safeguarding the rocket scanner by not opening the Bunker Doors above it I didn't needed to worry about Meteorite Damage to any things like for Ladders. So I choose 0 second as Delay.

 

            9.As soon as Rocket Incoming is detected before 200 seconds by the scanner its output become active and also output after two Buffer gate(two for holding Active input for 250 seconds long explained earlier for 250 seconds hold up ) become Active which splits in two First goes to filter gate which provide delay for door opening time i took it as 0 second (Explained earlier why 0 second) the output goes to OR gate in right which opens up the bunker doors and it is safe for doors for rocket landing.(Buffer gates are in Left side just below top Gantry and Filter gate is in Center)

           10.The other Output which splits from buffer gate goes to two continuous Filter Gate which provide 245 seconds(must be less than 250 seconds of buffer gate hold up time) of delay for gantry opening. The Active output from filter gate will goes to Reset port of Memory Toggle which will set its output to Inactive and the Not gate connected to its output will give Active Output to Gantry and it will open up.(Filter Gates are in left side just below gantry and Memory Toggle is above it behind gantry and not gate is beside it )

           11.After Landing of Rocket output from scanner will become Inactive so does of buffer gate followed by filter gate then OR gate and then door will be closed.Max time for which door can remain open after rocket landing will be equal to 250 seconds equal to delay in buffer gates.

           12.Also as soon as gantry is opened the output of NOT gate connected to gantry input becomes Inactive so does the input for power shutoff connected to power supply of scanner so power supply for scanner is paused and scanner is switched off.(Not Gate and Power shutoff are in lower left corner)

 

Actually I have a three rocket adjacent setups and all automation were made of thermium to prevent melting.

5c2d2a8016cea_Screenshot(129).thumb.png.1a29252caed87873a4af9acc3b3e7fa1.png

I also made a video of rocket launching and landing 

Launching

Oxygen Not Included Launching.mp4

Landing

Oxygen Not Included Landing.mp4

If You want Scanner Detector Network of 6 scanner for 100% efficiency

5c2d2ad5870a8_Screenshot(132).thumb.png.5d74a707f06774110fe6d9286685525f.png

Video of detector network working (My previous setup not of same that i used in above but both are same)

Detector Network and auto regolith digging.mp4

EDIT: Later I realized that the two buffer doors combined delay time plus the time for which signal in rocket scanner remains active during launching (Yes also  during launch rocket scanner gives active output for the period of time just after liftoff and till rocket goes out of map in space) can't be greater than 245 seconds of gantry opening time because due to fact that during launching rocket scanner active output and it will cause the gantry to be opened after 245 second of launching  also which we don't want we only want gantry to be opened after rocket landing.so buffer gate delay time should be less than 245 seconds minus the time for which signal in rocket scanner remains active during launching. and this time for rocket comes to be same as landing time of 35-40 seconds.So buffer gate delay time reduces to 210 seconds (250(previous delay time) - 40(the time for which signal in rocket scanner remains active during launching) = 210 ). And reducing it will cause us to get decreased duration for safe landing possible time window. So now we have to give both buffer gate combined delay of 210 second or we can only use one buffer gate with 200 second. Now The Rockets which are not safe and which will break the Bunker Doors are those which is scheduled to be detected just after fully closing of scanner network door and before the 150 seconds of ending of shower for shower of greater than 70 sec [110(previous safe shower)-40(the time for which signal in rocket scanner remains active during launching) = 70]. But we already know all showers are greater than 100 sec so for all showers.

 

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Nitroturtle    327

I'm not sure I understand why meteor showers are such an issue. 

28 minutes ago, MadTheUltimate said:

Then after that signal strengths will fall 0% and the rocket scanner will loose its signal for rocket incoming and bunker doors will not open

My rocket scanners are built under bunker tiles and never have view of space.  They always work perfectly fine and my doors open with plenty of time for my rocket to land.  In fact, I've considered adding a buffer to get the timing a bit closer, but since it doesn't really matter if meteors enter my silo I haven't worried about it.

Here's the automation I'm using to handle my 4 rockets.

Spoiler

20190102171158_1.thumb.jpg.0279af55b32e29a5841a483be1fb3893.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, Nitroturtle said:

I'm not sure I understand why meteor showers are such an issue. 

My rocket scanners are built under bunker tiles and never have view of space.  They always work perfectly fine and my doors open with plenty of time for my rocket to land.  In fact, I've considered adding a buffer to get the timing a bit closer, but since it doesn't really matter if meteors enter my silo I haven't worried about it.

Here's the automation I'm using to handle my 4 rockets.

  Hide contents

20190102171158_1.thumb.jpg.0279af55b32e29a5841a483be1fb3893.jpg

 

Well I checked it again and if after detecting rocket signal, if strength falls below 0% rocket scanner lost its signal.for incoming rocket

And if yours work fine and rocket signal holds even after 0% strength reaching then as we know their is always chance of detecting  between 0 to 200 sec even at 0% strength and yours rocket had been detected due to this chance at signal loosing time. 

Just After detecting rocket 

5c2d569402d9d_Screenshot(133).thumb.png.e036bda12703f4e32a09cc4b050087b8.png

After strength lost to 0% (for this to happen i covered all six scanners on left with doors) scanner goes back to Inactive and not detecting incoming.5c2d571fe3395_Screenshot(135).thumb.png.7a41706ed485076410cd66ae0c050dba.png

 

 

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Nitroturtle    327

Well, after spending the last hour testing this, I'm able to reproduce your results.  However, I'm getting a consistent detection with 0% scan quality of about 100s before the rocket touches down.  I was able to repeat this several times and I get the same warning each and every time.  With the doors open, I was able to get a longer warning, and then closing the doors during this warning would cause the warning signal to be lost.  But then at 100s before landing, it would activate again.  So worst case, the doors open and close an extra time, but there's still enough time that they should end up open before the rocket lands.

I do notice that it seems you're not running the latest build, so maybe that's causing some confusion.  You can go ahead and try my save (though you probably have to update) and check for yourself.  I have 2 filter gates by the silo for the incoming rocket, with the top one set to 100s.  This is what I was using to determine the 100s lead time on the rockets arrival, and as I said, I repeated it several times and get consistent results.  It looks like all they did is increase the minimum warning time for rocket scanners, so that the warning is always long enough to detect the rocket and open the doors in time, regardless of scan quality.  I've done probably close to 100 launches with this setup and maybe I've just been very lucky, but I've never had my doors damaged due to a rocket arriving before they're open.

 

scanner test.sav

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3 hours ago, Nitroturtle said:

Well, after spending the last hour testing this, I'm able to reproduce your results.  However, I'm getting a consistent detection with 0% scan quality of about 100s before the rocket touches down.  I was able to repeat this several times and I get the same warning each and every time.  With the doors open, I was able to get a longer warning, and then closing the doors during this warning would cause the warning signal to be lost.  But then at 100s before landing, it would activate again.  So worst case, the doors open and close an extra time, but there's still enough time that they should end up open before the rocket lands.

I do notice that it seems you're not running the latest build, so maybe that's causing some confusion.  You can go ahead and try my save (though you probably have to update) and check for yourself.  I have 2 filter gates by the silo for the incoming rocket, with the top one set to 100s.  This is what I was using to determine the 100s lead time on the rockets arrival, and as I said, I repeated it several times and get consistent results.  It looks like all they did is increase the minimum warning time for rocket scanners, so that the warning is always long enough to detect the rocket and open the doors in time, regardless of scan quality.  I've done probably close to 100 launches with this setup and maybe I've just been very lucky, but I've never had my doors damaged due to a rocket arriving before they're open.

 

scanner test.sav

 

Well I wanted to make 100% safe automation and wanted to know during which time it is 100% safe (i.e. detected before 200 sec). And i have considered rocket to be detected with 0 sec warning for strength less than 100% for worst case scenario. So In actual if I am saying a time interval not to be safe then it means at that time it will work with chance of detecting between 1-200 sec and if by luck it is detected before 40 sec then I think it will work fine for all that cases.So if what you are saying that it always detects before 100 sec even at 0% is true then I think it will be safe for all time what ever the case.

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Sasza22    1,571

Recently i had the idea of putting a scanner under a single bunker door with open space on the sides. It should have above 0% detection even if the doors are closed. Building a few of those should net you enough time to detect a rocket early enough with no issues. This is next on my to-do list so i`m not sure if it works but i thought i share the idea anyway.

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Nitroturtle    327
57 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

Recently i had the idea of putting a scanner under a single bunker door with open space on the sides. It should have above 0% detection even if the doors are closed. Building a few of those should net you enough time to detect a rocket early enough with no issues. This is next on my to-do list so i`m not sure if it works but i thought i share the idea anyway.

Maybe you missed where I said it above, but the scanners will detect rockets early enough even with 0% detection.

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4 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

Recently i had the idea of putting a scanner under a single bunker door with open space on the sides. It should have above 0% detection even if the doors are closed. Building a few of those should net you enough time to detect a rocket early enough with no issues. This is next on my to-do list so i`m not sure if it works but i thought i share the idea anyway.

No the strength drops to 0% if there is even only one tile just over its center tile(i.e. power port)

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Sasza22    1,571
6 hours ago, Nitroturtle said:

Maybe you missed where I said it above, but the scanners will detect rockets early enough even with 0% detection.

I saw it. No offence but i don`t believe you without testing it myself. Also i saw somebody else claiming 25% of his rockets crashed the doors. If the rockets behave like meteors you might have just been lucky.

2 hours ago, MadTheUltimate said:

No the strength drops to 0% if there is even only one tile just over its center tile(i.e. power port)

Too bad. Thanks for saving me some time. Back to the drawing board then.

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shanemadden    25
48 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

I saw it. No offence but i don`t believe you without testing it myself. Also i saw somebody else claiming 25% of his rockets crashed the doors. If the rockets behave like meteors you might have just been lucky.

Too bad. Thanks for saving me some time. Back to the drawing board then.

Are you saying you did or didn't test yourself..?  It seems odd to declare that you won't trust one person's statement without testing it yourself but then accept another's at face value ;)

I've only launched 15ish rockets this update but my rocket scanner (with 0% direct signal quality and ~85% network quality) has a perfect track record of opening the doors with plenty of time, even with network strength is at 0% (when the upper doors are closed due to meteor bombardment).  The only time I smashed my doors was my own automation error.

Yes, the signal strength displays as 0%; that doesn't matter the signal still fires at the right time.

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Sasza22    1,571
34 minutes ago, shanemadden said:

Are you saying you did or didn't test yourself..?  It seems odd to declare that you won't trust one person's statement without testing it yourself but then accept another's at face value

I didn`t test it enough. I don`t have as much time to play as i would like. I also saw contradicting opinions from people having their doors not open in time. Finally the detection logic with how it works in theory doesn`t guarantee the detection in time and makes it a chance to open in time (40s to open doors 1-200s possible detect time gives you an 80% chance it opens in time).

To be clear i`m not saying you are all wrong. You might be right and probably are. I just want to be sure. It takes a lot of rockets to launch to get that 20% during a meteor storm. (i actually should just launch a sandbox and test it there but i`m too lazy for that)

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I also only use 1 scanner with 0% for my rocket, there is one time rocket broke my door during landing, it was off screen, I've just launch 5 times I guess.

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Nitroturtle    327

I don't fault you for being skeptical, it's difficult to test due to the random nature.  In the save I provided above, I reloaded and watched the timing half a dozen times and saw the exact same timing every time.  However, I don't know when the randomness is determined, so it's possible that it's already been determined for that particular landing, causing me to see the same each time.

With that said, I'm also pairing this knowledge with my experience in this particular save.  I've done ~100 rocket launches using the same (or very similar) setup and with my rocket scanners being blocked by bunker tiles.  I had my bunker doors broken one time, but it was because I rebuilt the rocket and forgot to reset the scanner to match the new rocket name.  

I'm still playing the same base, so I'll report back if my results change.  Though, I've temporarily stopped launching rockets, because I no longer need any of the space materials.  I have over 10 tons of super coolant and enough fullerene to make another 10 tons.  Tungsten quickly becomes the limiting factor in creating space materials, and unfortunately there's no way to farm that from space.  Once I have a living quarters established for my astronauts, I plan to resume rocket launches for farming steel and to fully automate the process.  Once that's done, I'll focus a bit more on testing the door timing.

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shanemadden    25

Most of the variability that I've seen in the bunker doors is when they're automating off-screen, particularly when they start opening/closing off-screen then you pan to where they're on the screen - if there are still issues, that's where I expect to see them.

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So After this much confusion I decided to look into the game file (Some Crazy Idea :confused: ) to exactly know when the automation port goes Active for detecting and its randomness. And I also wanted to know the distribution it follows for getting prediction time within the possible range (i.e. 1-200 sec at 0%) which is based on strength.

Well It turns out the Game follows a simple Linear Interpolation (no uniform or gamma or such type of probability distribution) on Range time by using Larp Function which uses a parameter named accuracy for Interpolation. Parameter accuracy is randomly generated

Detection Time = a + (b-a)*accuracy.

accuracy value is determined by Random value generating function defined in Unity Engine.

And for setting the automation active It uses simply logic and becomes active when either launching, waiting to land, Landing and when Time Left of Mission <= Detection Time.

7 hours ago, Nitroturtle said:

In the save I provided above, I reloaded and watched the timing half a dozen times and saw the exact same timing every time.  However, I don't know when the randomness is determined, so it's possible that it's already been determined for that particular landing, causing me to see the same each time.

I also looked on when the calling of function occur which assign a random value to parameter accuracy. Turns out it was called upon by a function RerollAccuracy which was inside a Instance variable defined for a Particular Machine. And for what I know The Instance variables are initialized when the class is instantiated and here In Game I think it will be equivalence to building the space scanner.

So I think You might be True that randomness of that landing had already been fixed. (It is only based on what i learned from looking into C#  code and Instance variable properties )

Can you (Nitroturtle) check for Detection Time by connecting the automation wire for the same rocket to different scanner or by destroying the scanner and rebuilding it again and also by changing its setting to detect different rocket and changing back again to same one And see What happens.

 

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Sasza22    1,571

So it didn`t take me much testing time to get the rocket to break the doors.

Spoiler

Landing.thumb.png.f82a205f41ff5aebe44db8a3914d59b7.png

The scanner on the left is set to detect the rocket and it did detect it. Just oo late. The slow opening offscreen bug wasn`t the case as i kept watching the landing bay right before the landing. The rocket was detected about 30-35s before landing and the doors were 95% opened. All happened during a meteor rain so all scanners(3) were at 0% under closed doors. The 2 other don`t have full efficiency when opened but the grid efficiency is above 20%.

I`m really interested in how the system exactly works that certain people get the doors to open using a fully covered detector 100% of the time while i managed to detect the rocket too late afer just a few tries. Does the overall grid efficiency matter when the bunker doors are closed? Does it detect the rocket more reliably if you got more sensors (set to detect different things)?

Other interesting notes:
Bunker doors once again are "broken" and not fully deleted upon landng. Repairing them soesn`t delete steel (it drops to the ground under them).
Broken bunker doors can still open or close. Seem to operate at the speed of unpowered bunker doors.
Repairing bunker doors takes forever. A dupe was sitting(flying) there for about 2 cycles before he fully repaired them.

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Nitroturtle    327

Yup, not afraid to admit when I'm wrong, and it seems I definitely was in this case.  Just came here to post similar results.  It seems @MadTheUltimate was on to something with his research and the scanners randomness is set when they are built.  I ran several test where I destroyed and rebuilt the scanners and after about 8 attempts with 4 scanners scanning each time, I was able to get the doors to break as well.  I apparently have just been extremely lucky, as I haven't had doors break while actually playing and have launched probably close to 100 rockets.  With that said, my network quality is 100%, so maybe that helps with the scanners even though they are covered.  If that is the case, the opportunity for this to happen would be limited as it would require a rocket to be landing during a shower AND having bad luck on the warning.  

So anyways, I am curious to know the specifics of how the detection works.  I'll likely keep my automation the same and just fix doors if they ever break, but I can see the merit in exploring a solution that ensures a proper warning signal.

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Sasza22    1,571
6 minutes ago, Nitroturtle said:

my network quality is 100%, so maybe that helps with the scanners even though they are covered.  If that is the case, the opportunity for this to happen would be limited as it would require a rocket to be landing during a shower AND having bad luck on the warning.  

So i`m back to my original theory. The detection when covered is 0% so a random from 1s to 200s before landing. Given that the doors take ~40s to open it`s a 20% chance for the doors to break when the rocket lands during a shower. It is possible that you had around 5 rockets land during showers and was lucky enough not to get the doors destroyed.

I`m not really sure i understand the accuracy being generated when building the scanner thing. That sounds weird. Does it mean that the detection time is the same for that scanner and not randomized for every shower? So if you get a lucky scanner you can put it under a solid wall and it will still detect meteors or rockets in time everytime? That seems like something exploitable. Just build 20 scanners underground and watch which ones detect meteors first. Then remove the others and use those to automate the doors and rockets. Do i understand it correctly

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14 hours ago, Nitroturtle said:

 I apparently have just been extremely lucky, as I haven't had doors break while actually playing and have launched probably close to 100 rockets.

AND having bad luck on the warning.  

So anyways, I am curious to know the specifics of how the detection works.

Well you don't need to be extremely lucky just enough lucky for time and not having bad luck only during building Scanner. And I regret if you destroyed your Lucky Scanner for testing but Hey you can always get a new one as (Sasza22) said.

I think i had simply explained how detection work only thing i forget to write was that a == Worst detection time b == Best detection time.

14 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

I`m not really sure i understand the accuracy being generated when building the scanner thing. That sounds weird. Does it mean that the detection time is the same for that scanner and not randomized for every shower? So if you get a lucky scanner you can put it under a solid wall and it will still detect meteors or rockets in time every time? That seems like something exploitable. Just build 20 scanners underground and watch which ones detect meteors first. Then remove the others and use those to automate the doors and rockets. Do i understand it correctly

 

Yup For me it also sounded weird when i first noticed in code That is why i wrote "it is only based on what i could understand from source code" but as now it has been tested (By Nitroturtle) I am pretty sure randomness is decided during building the scanner only.And Yes I think you can build a lot of scanner and put only best or lucky one.

Well I think it can be a Bug but It can also be that developer intentionally might had put randomness to be decided only once for a particular scanner by a single call to random value to Improve Performance as calling a random number generator function every time of updating a machine state can cause serious performance issue on game or just because simply some one misplaced its position by mistake.

Well I think I will post it in Bug Report and wait for a possible reply for 'is it a bug or not'. 

EDIT: Well I tested it again for condition like ( Same Rocket Different Landing )and For ( Same Rocket Same Landing by reloading save game ) and obtained different detection time for different time landing but same  detection time for same landing. So it might be that the randomness factor is decided only once if a rocket is launched and as soon as you choose a scanner to detect that particular scanner and is stored till the rocket lands. But even with that it is not fully random if i get the same for different loading of save game or it can also be a feature which prevents the player to reload the game and get a safe detection time this time in case if during previous time the doors was broken due to bad detection time

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Nitroturtle    327

I'm not sure my test proves that the randomness is set when the scanner is built.  Let me explain in detail what I did and what I observed, and you guys can theorize what is happening.

Initially when I tested, I saved a game (listed above) about 1/2 cycle before my rocket was landing.  I then reloaded that same save over and over and observed that the scanner for that rocket was giving about 100s warning for that landing.  Each time, the value was consistent, making me believe there was no variation to the timing.  However, it was pointed out that the warning delay for THAT particular landing could have already been determined and stored in that save, something I probably should have realized.  So then I instead tried loading that save, destroying that scanner and rebuilding before the rocket landed, and then I started to see different warning times. 

So, I'm not sure if that means that scanner will always give the same warning, or if it just means that the RNG is seeded upon building the scanner, causing that particular scanner to give repeatable results for any given rocket entry.  I will try to pay closer attention to the warning I receive from each scanner and see if I can verify.  I'm guessing it's the latter, as the former seems far to exploitable.

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10 hours ago, Nitroturtle said:

I'm not sure my test proves that the randomness is set when the scanner is built.  Let me explain in detail what I did and what I observed, and you guys can theorize what is happening.

Initially when I tested, I saved a game (listed above) about 1/2 cycle before my rocket was landing.  I then reloaded that same save over and over and observed that the scanner for that rocket was giving about 100s warning for that landing.  Each time, the value was consistent, making me believe there was no variation to the timing.  However, it was pointed out that the warning delay for THAT particular landing could have already been determined and stored in that save, something I probably should have realized.  So then I instead tried loading that save, destroying that scanner and rebuilding before the rocket landed, and then I started to see different warning times. 

So, I'm not sure if that means that scanner will always give the same warning, or if it just means that the RNG is seeded upon building the scanner, causing that particular scanner to give repeatable results for any given rocket entry.  I will try to pay closer attention to the warning I receive from each scanner and see if I can verify.  I'm guessing it's the latter, as the former seems far to exploitable.

If Your save was before 200 seconds i.e. max detection time as 1/2 cycle = 300 sec so its detection time cant be saved as during that time a user can do anything even destroy the whole scanner network for those whose working with 100 % and even build whole a new scanner which works with 100% accuracy then Detection time had to be changed. And I dont also thinks these kind of things are for saving.

Well I will also check it myself and see if result varies with same scanner or not.

EDIT: Well I tested it again for condition like ( Same Rocket Different Landing )and For ( Same Rocket Same Landing by reloading save game ) and obtained different detection time for different time landing but same  detection time for same landing. So it might be that the randomness factor is decided only once if a rocket is launched and as soon as you choose a scanner to detect that particular scanner and is stored till the rocket lands. But even with that it is not fully random if i get the same for different loading of save game or it can also be a feature which prevents the player to reload the game and get a safe detection time this time in case if during previous time the doors was broken due to bad detection time

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If You are using with 0% Network Strength, Actual chance of getting rocket landing during shower and not opening of gate within time will depend upon Prediction time Randomness in which not opening of gate on time chance is 20% (40 sec of 200 sec) and on chance of occurring of shower every day which is 3857*100/8400 = 45.92% . [ In 8400Sec (14Days(10 days shower plus 4 days break)*600=8400sec)), max possible effective shower duration in 14 days is 3857 sec [ ( 450sec (400 sec of max shower length + 50 sec for door opening time ) = 450sec ) * 8.5714 ( (10 days((shower session is ony for 10 days in 14 days cycle) * 600 sec) / ( 300sec (min break) + 400 sec (max shower) ) = 8.5714 times of shower ) ) ]. Chance of breaking the bunker door reduces to 0.2 * 0.4592 * 100 = 9.18% only. But this is chance of breaking the door every day as 20% randomness in detection is everyday.

If you are using the above automation with 100% network strength for detection then max possible effective shower duration in 14 days will reduces to 2571 sec [ ( 300sec (400 sec of max shower length -150 sec for which automation compensate   + 50 sec for door opening time ) = 450sec ) * 8.5714 ( (10 days((shower session is ony for 10 days in 14 days cycle) * 600 sec) / ( 300sec (min break) + 400 sec (max shower) ) = 8.5714 times of shower ) ) ]. So chance of occurring effective shower will be only 2571*100/8400 = 30.61%. Chance of breaking the bunker door reduces to 0.2*0.3061 * 100 = 6.12% only. But this is chance of breaking the door only during a Shower as there is 0% randomness in detection for every other time except shower. And during no shower there is 0% chance of breaking door. But due to extra door opening time during shower for compensation, in this automation taking meteorite damage chance at that time is more than above condition with of 0% network strength.

So You can decide whether to use Scanner Network with 100% strength or not.

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finalmakerr    0

Gantry close upon landing / launching only

Bunker doors open upon landing / launching only (The extra or gate with clock is to toggle that if needed).

image.thumb.png.2e4c098cb55c0ea56c2d907011fcab69.png

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Xuhybrid    128

I'm fine with leaving the bunker doors open until it lands. However, now i need to figure out automation for keeping them open until the ship lands. I imagine i could use the scanner and a memory toggle. Off to bed now though.

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Mullematsch    117

So has this been fixed or is it still the same randomness with scanners?

Either leave rocket silo open or build a water clock seem to be the only options. 

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