Episode V: The Notes Strike Back

[madcat1188]

So I went on another weeks long bender playing this game, and like last time I kept a pen and paper handy to jot down notes when I thought of an idea for the game or noticed a bug. I also passed this milestone:

Requests:

• Smart refrigerator: The logic output on the existing refrigerators is almost useless since partially eaten food items can be placed in it, making it close to full and full enough that no more food will be added to it, but the logic output is still on standby. It would be great if the logic output on a refrigerator could be controlled the same way as smart batteries are controlled, where there is a certain percentage to turn on and off at. I think the same could apply to the smart storage as well.
• I've noticed that sometimes when I am drawing pipes, they sometimes automatically complete if there is only a small section to build. I think it would be better if it always required duplicant action to complete a pipe (or anything else), even if it doesn't require any resources. This would give me the opportunity to cancel it before it is built. I ran into a situation where I was trying to build a pipe in between two other pipes, and the mouse wobbled around on me and I ended up connecting an existing pipe with petroleum in it to an existing water pipe, and ended up with petroleum in my water tank.
• It would be helpful to set a storage compactor to "auto-sweeper only", so that it only accepts items from an auto-sweeper.
• When a rocket lands, the astronaut should get out and rejoin the colony if a gantry is available and extended.
• When using the new "copy" function, it would be great if that function also copied whether or not auto-repair is enabled or disabled.
• Steel should be in "Refined Metals", not "Metal Ore", also ceramic should be in "Manufactured Material", not "Raw Mineral".
• It would be wonderful if duplicants wouldn't perform any tasks (building, deconstructing, etc) while standing in an open door.
• I'd like to have a way to disable auto-repair or auto-disinfect for a large area or over a long length of pipe or something along those lines.
• It would be helpful to have a way to have a transit tube and a ladder or fire pole cross over each other.
• When adding a new exosuit checkpoint, the arrow in the outline of the exosuit checkpoint can be hard to see what direction it is going.
• When a duplicant puts something in a storage compactor, it would be great if it was placed in the closest storage compactor that can accept the item instead of running all over the map and placing it somewhere random.
• When I click one of the arrows in the dialog box for a storage compactor to expand a category (like the "Metal Ore" one for example), it goes back up to the top of the list. It would be better if it stayed where it was.
• Graphs of the data in the reports over time and perhaps some other data could be helpful.
• It might be helpful if we could add custom text labels to switches, liquid and gas valves and similar controls to label what they are for.
• Add a notification icon of some sort (similar to the red X for gas vent over pressure) for when a switch, gas or liquid valve setting has been changed but a duplicant has not yet made the change (so the change is pending).

Suggestions:

• Add liquid cooling for Robo-Miners, similar to how the metal refinery works. This way, Robo-Miners could be used in space without having to de-construct and rebuild them all the time.
• Perhaps add "Doctor" to the professions. The doctor could heal duplicants faster.
• Leave an outline or something along those lines to show the space a launched rocket is occupying. It seems like the rocket is still there in some way after it is launched as you can't build anything in the space where it will land, which makes sense.
• Add a duplicant presence sensors that detects if a duplicant is present in a room, or a motion sensor.
• New Rooms:
  - Kitchen: Requires food producing building (electric grill or microbe musher), food storage (ration box or refrigerator), and sink and cooks food faster and/or higher kcal or moral values.
  - Factory: Requires metal refinery or glass forge or some refinement building and produces its product faster.
  - Laboratory: Requires research station, super computer, or virtual planetarium and does research faster.
• Add Alarms to the game. A device that looks similar to a fire alarm could be added that would have a logic input. When it goes to active, the screen could flash red and a custom notification (entered into a text box when the alarm is created) could be displayed.
• Add an auto-sweeping / auto-mopping function for rooms, so that duplicants will automatically sweep or mop certain rooms.
• Add a circuit breaker to the game. This would automatically switch off if the wattage going through it goes over the value it is set to, and would require duplicant action to turn it back on. This could be used to prevent overloads in hard to reach areas.
• Add a wattage sensor to the game. The logic output becomes active if the wattage in the wire it is built over top of goes over a certain value.
• Add a logic output to the steam engine, liquid fuel tank, and liquid oxidizer tank that goes active when they are full.
• Add a "dump site" to the game, similar to the critter drop off. This would be a place where stuff that is swept up by duplicants would be dropped off instead of being placed in a storage compactor. I can do something similar to this by building a storage compactor, having duplicants put stuff in it, then emptying out, and repeating that over and over, but that's annoying.
• To make the game more challenging:
  - Add fire or explosions to the game. Perhaps if something like a battery or transformer is sparking in a room filled with natural gas, kaboom!
  - Add natural disasters to the game, like asteroid quakes.
  - Make light more important. Perhaps duplicants perform their tasks more slowly without light.

Bugs:

(These are either bugs or I am not understanding an aspect of the game)

• When a rocket lands, the astronaut sometimes falls out, then climbs the ladder and goes back into the command capsule.
• When a vent or geyser has been analyzed, it has a button that says "analysis complete" that doesn't do anything.That should probably just be text.
• Mousing over the "Starmap" button in the upper right corner says "Manage Austronaut Rocket Missions (R)", but (R) this the shortcut key for research, and (Z) is the shortcut key for the starmap.
• It seems like I've randomly lost some of my "data bank". For interstellar research I have 398 of 400 for Liquid and Gas Cargos after the virtual planetarium used up all the data banks it had, yet data banks come in packages of 50, so it seems like it should always be an even multiple of 50.
• In the notifications on the upper left side, I see "Ready to Land" and when I mouse over it, I see "A space craft is ready to land - Save Game". Clicking the notification takes me to the printing pod.
• Mesh tiles don't seem to heat up with hot regolith on them, but normal tiles do.
• I noticed a floating progress bar after I deconstructed a telescope.
• A transit tube access point with no plastic transit tube connected to it says "insufficient power" even though it is connected to a sufficient source of power. It should only say "No tube connected".
• I have the top of my map setup so that robo-miners clear away regolith from meteors, but I am sometimes experiencing a situation where they continually try to clear the same chunk and it never goes away.

Thanks.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

I'm going to pick some things out of your list which I want to discuss further (in agreement or disagreement). Please note I will not do everything because either it is something I don't use in my gameplay, or I feel it a black and white case.

56 minutes ago, madcat1188 said:

I've noticed that sometimes when I am drawing pipes, they sometimes automatically complete if there is only a small section to build. I think it would be better if it always required duplicant action to complete a pipe (or anything else), even if it doesn't require any resources. This would give me the opportunity to cancel it before it is built. I ran into a situation where I was trying to build a pipe in between two other pipes, and the mouse wobbled around on me and I ended up connecting an existing pipe with petroleum in it to an existing water pipe, and ended up with petroleum in my water tank.

You mean when 2 adjacent cells have a pipe section in them? If so, yes you can connect them when both pieces are present and it can be considered a bit of an exploit (I admittingly use that a lot out of convenience). I do think accidently connecting pipes should be on the player and not being made an impossibility. There should be room for player to make mistakes (that they can fairly and reasonably prevent themselves) and having to suffer the consequences of that. Because I do think that's part of the game, making those mistakes and learning from them.

 

1 hour ago, madcat1188 said:

• It would be helpful to set a storage compactor to "auto-sweeper only", so that it only accepts items from an auto-sweeper.

Yes, but IMO only for the smart compactor.

1 hour ago, madcat1188 said:

• Steel should be in "Refined Metals", not "Metal Ore", also ceramic should be in "Manufactured Material", not "Raw Mineral".

Isn't Steel in the manufactured materials list? Anyway, I do agree it should be categorized as Refined Metal. Because you know, it is a refined metal.

1 hour ago, madcat1188 said:

• It would be helpful to have a way to have a transit tube and a ladder or fire pole cross over each other.

Again this is where I disagree philsophically. Yes, it would be helpful, but would also take the fun and challenge out of incooperating late game stuff like transit tubes in your already existing base. I'm having a blast actually trying to get tubes in my existing maintenance/travel shafts, having to build secondary walkways etc to get incooperated. IMO, my perspective is that the player should also actively think about solutions instead of being given them all on a platter.

1 hour ago, madcat1188 said:

• When adding a new exosuit checkpoint, the arrow in the outline of the exosuit checkpoint can be hard to see what direction it is going.

I would also like to add that once build, you can't change the direction anymore. I mean we can do that for the sink and washing station, so I do feel we should be able to do that as well for the checkpoint.

1 hour ago, madcat1188 said:

• When a duplicant puts something in a storage compactor, it would be great if it was placed in the closest storage compactor that can accept the item instead of running all over the map and placing it somewhere random.

That's not always preferable. Often times I build forward storages to keep up supply of materials I will need to build in places far away from my base. So instead of filling the nearest compactor, I would want them to specifically fill those. What I personally would like to see is dupes stop emptying already filled compactors in favour of higher priority compactors, or an option atleast to disable that. That way everybody wins, as you can fully determine which containers get filled first through the priority numbers.

1 hour ago, madcat1188 said:

• Perhaps add "Doctor" to the professions. The doctor could heal duplicants faster.

Totally agree with this and infact, there should be a rework of sickness and medicine as a whole, because germs are little to no nuisance now. It basically goes like: "let's check what is in the air and the water. That is germed oxygen? Let's clear out all polluted oxygen. Germed water? Let's keep that separate for other purposes. Or let's put all my dupes in an exosuit, that works too". IMO, viral outbreaks should be random and difficult to detect, and contact between dupes should be much more significant in this.

 

[Ambaire]

1 hour ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Yes, it would be helpful, but would also take the fun and challenge out of incooperating late game stuff like transit tubes in your already existing base

.. think of it as the transit tube going behind the fire pole, in the background layer, or behind even that. Fake 3D, of sorts. I honestly don't understand why some people think not having that option would be 'fun and challenging'.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

Just now, Ambaire said:

.. think of it as the transit tube going behind the fire pole, in the background layer, or behind even that. Fake 3D, of sorts. I honestly don't understand why some people think this would be 'fun and challenging'.

So why not ladders, firepools and transit tubes behind buildings? Or buildings behind buildings?

Part of the challenge of the game is doing things with limited space. I can only speak for myself of course, and you can only speak for yourself, but I like that I have to partially adapt my existing structures to encooperate transit tubes, or even have to build entire new travel paths. For me it gives the sensation of "growing pains" of a base.

[goboking]

9 hours ago, madcat1188 said:

Steel should be in "Refined Metals", not "Metal Ore", also ceramic should be in "Manufactured Material", not "Raw Mineral".

Agreed.
 

9 hours ago, madcat1188 said:

I'd like to have a way to disable auto-repair or auto-disinfect for a large area or over a long length of pipe or something along those lines.

Agreed.

9 hours ago, madcat1188 said:

Perhaps add "Doctor" to the professions. The doctor could heal duplicants faster.

Absolutely agreed.  It feels to me like doctors are the single most glaring omission in the game at the moment.

9 hours ago, madcat1188 said:

• New Rooms:
  - Kitchen: Requires food producing building (electric grill or microbe musher), food storage (ration box or refrigerator), and sink and cooks food faster and/or higher kcal or moral values.
  - Factory: Requires metal refinery or glass forge or some refinement building and produces its product faster.
  - Laboratory: Requires research station, super computer, or virtual planetarium and does research faster.
• Add Alarms to the game. A device that looks similar to a fire alarm could be added that would have a logic input. When it goes to active, the screen could flash red and a custom notification (entered into a text box when the alarm is created) could be displayed.
• Add an auto-sweeping / auto-mopping function for rooms, so that duplicants will automatically sweep or mop certain rooms.
• Add a circuit breaker to the game. This would automatically switch off if the wattage going through it goes over the value it is set to, and would require duplicant action to turn it back on. This could be used to prevent overloads in hard to reach areas.
• Add a wattage sensor to the game. The logic output becomes active if the wattage in the wire it is built over top of goes over a certain value.

Agreed with all of this.

9 hours ago, madcat1188 said:

To make the game more challenging:
- Add fire or explosions to the game. Perhaps if something like a battery or transformer is sparking in a room filled with natural gas, kaboom!

Absolutely agreed.  Hopefully such a mechanic - should it ever be implemented - will come with a firefighting job and appropriate buildings so we can eventually install automated fire suppressants.

9 hours ago, madcat1188 said:

- Make light more important. Perhaps duplicants perform their tasks more slowly without light.

Agreed.

I hope you don't mind if I add a few of my own.

• Dupes should NOT pull materials from a storage compactor to supply a fabrication building if the priority of the compactor is higher than that of the building.  As is, micromanagement is required to utilize the "make continuous" function of a building without depleting materials you'd like to keep stockpiled for other/emergency uses.
• I really want a radio transmitter and receiver so we can automate pumps and such at remote sites without having to run frustrating lengths of automation wire across our map.

[ONIfreak]

23 hours ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

I've noticed that sometimes when I am drawing pipes, they sometimes automatically complete if there is only a small section to build. I think it would be better if it always required duplicant action to complete a pipe (or anything else), even if it doesn't require any resources. This would give me the opportunity to cancel it before it is built. I ran into a situation where I was trying to build a pipe in between two other pipes, and the mouse wobbled around on me and I ended up connecting an existing pipe with petroleum in it to an existing water pipe, and ended up with petroleum in my water tank.

i actually use this as an exploit The mechanic of the game allow you to connect two things together if on both tiles those things are present (wires, pipes, gas pipes - anything really). You you can build pipe in one tile (like a drop) and after connect it to pipe next to it without dup need. This give a lot of room to abuse connecting certain devices at certain time where timing is crucial (when building something in survival for example).

 

[madcat1188]

On 1/2/2019 at 5:29 AM, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

You mean when 2 adjacent cells have a pipe section in them? If so, yes you can connect them when both pieces are present and it can be considered a bit of an exploit (I admittingly use that a lot out of convenience). I do think accidently connecting pipes should be on the player and not being made an impossibility. There should be room for player to make mistakes (that they can fairly and reasonably prevent themselves) and having to suffer the consequences of that. Because I do think that's part of the game, making those mistakes and learning from them.

I do see your point here, but I don't think user input errors should be part of the challenge of the game. There should always be the opportunity to cancel something before it is built. If something doesn't function as I expect after it is built, then that's where the making mistakes and learning from them should come from. Challenges from user input failures are more for games like first person shooters, where failing to duck or shoot at exactly the right time can cost you.

 

On 1/2/2019 at 5:29 AM, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Again this is where I disagree philsophically. Yes, it would be helpful, but would also take the fun and challenge out of incooperating late game stuff like transit tubes in your already existing base. I'm having a blast actually trying to get tubes in my existing maintenance/travel shafts, having to build secondary walkways etc to get incooperated. IMO, my perspective is that the player should also actively think about solutions instead of being given them all on a platter.

I usually do leave enough space for transit tubes when planning out the space usage in the early game, but inevitably I need to take out a chunk of ladder here and there to get the transit tubes where I want them to go, and it looks ugly. I was thinking more along the lines of a ladder crossing option like there is for tiles, not necessarily the ability to build a length of transit tube underneath a ladder or anything like that.

 

On 1/2/2019 at 5:29 AM, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

I would also like to add that once build, you can't change the direction anymore. I mean we can do that for the sink and washing station, so I do feel we should be able to do that as well for the checkpoint.

Agreed.

On 1/2/2019 at 5:29 AM, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

That's not always preferable. Often times I build forward storages to keep up supply of materials I will need to build in places far away from my base. So instead of filling the nearest compactor, I would want them to specifically fill those. What I personally would like to see is dupes stop emptying already filled compactors in favour of higher priority compactors, or an option atleast to disable that. That way everybody wins, as you can fully determine which containers get filled first through the priority numbers.

The problem I was actually having is that I built a bunch of storage compactors on the top of the map in space, and wanted the dupes to put all the hot regolith in those storage compactors, since it was heating up the top of the map too much. Instead, they ran all over the place and put it storage compactors located in the interior section of the base (where the beds, dinning hall, etc are located), and heated up that section. I suppose I could have lowered the priorities of the storage compactors in the interior section, but then if I want to put stuff in those storage compactors, I've got to increase the priority of them again. I usually end up increasing the priority of the storage compactors where I want the regolith, but I only mean to do this temporarily and I often forget to change them back, or miss changing back one out of a group of them.  If you want to have them fill up storage compactors located far away from your base, you can use priorities to control that, since I think you'd likely be doing stuff like that less often than ordinary clean up.

Perhaps a better solution would be to have classes or groups of storage compactors, and you can make changes to the priority and other settings of a whole group all at the same time. Usually in the mid to late game, I'll have over 100 storage compactors all over the map, and managing them can be a pain.

 

On 1/2/2019 at 1:25 PM, goboking said:

Hopefully such a mechanic - should it ever be implemented - will come with a firefighting job and appropriate buildings so we can eventually install automated fire suppressants.

Good idea. Perhaps a smoke detector could be a new sensors that is hooked up to something that drops water on the fire.

[Tyo atrosa]

6 hours ago, madcat1188 said:

Perhaps a better solution would be to have classes or groups of storage compactors, and you can make changes to the priority and other settings of a whole group all at the same time. Usually in the mid to late game, I'll have over 100 storage compactors all over the map, and managing them can be a pain.

you do realize you can just uncheck an item in a storage compactor to make it not store that item, right? basically already right there in the game. just set your compactors to only the items you want them to contain.

[madcat1188]

1 hour ago, Tyo atrosa said:

you do realize you can just uncheck an item in a storage compactor to make it not store that item, right? basically already right there in the game. just set your compactors to only the items you want them to contain.

Yup, I do. I usually create a fair number of "general purpose" storage compactors with priority 5, sweep only selected, and most stuff selected including selecting the checkbox for the entire "raw materials" category. You are right that another solution would be to de-select regolith for those storage compactors, but it's a bit of a pain if there's lots of them, plus I'm sure I'll forget to do it with all the excitement of breaching the top of the map. Also, there's often other stuff like igneous rock and granite that gets hot due to meteor impacts that I really just want to get swept up, preferably into the closest storage compactor.

[goboking]

One more thing I'd like to add to my tacked-on list of suggestions:

• Either add insulated airlocks or let us build existing airlocks out of ceramic or super insulator.