Why are Dupes so DUMB?

[Beercules]

Okay, I just had 2 of my 3 starting dupes walk into a block as it was being completed (by one of the 2 I'm referring too) and had their heads stuck in the same block. I usually save my dupes, but since it was only a few seconds into a new round I took joy in watch these DUMB F**kin idiots die.

This is one of many random absolutely stupid things dupes do, including closing themselves off in areas where they cant breathe. Why do dupes treat there existence so lightly, do they not have the most basic instincts to keep themselves alive, or do they only eat, sleep, sh*t and follow orders, and not in that order either?

 

Thanks,

 

Beercules!

[Keyimin]

I've decided the negative IQ of the dupes is entirely intentional so that we can feel equally idiotic for setting up a situation that allows them to get themselves killed. Personally, I've grown to find it incredibly amusing (not always, mind you lol), but this happened recently, and I just fell over in stitches.

Did you know dupes can actually push their heads up INTO copper if a tile is built where their feet belong? Poor little Max. (Don't worry, he was promptly rescued!)

[Beercules]

The picture is a perfect example of how unbelievably STUPID these dupes are. The space above the tiles they trap themselves in was a vacuum, why do they walk into a vacuum just to seal themselves off from their oxygen. And yes, I watched these stupid dupes die with pleasure!

 

The biggest issue is that they don't draw their orders / jobs based on the dupes location, instead it must draw from a master queue which makes the dupe not only inefficient but really stupid because they do orders / jobs out of order, hence why they get trapped in stupid places.

 

It's to the point where I have to micro manage every build or dig just to ensure these guys don't kill themselves doing simple task, I believe your intention was for the player to ensure we manage their survival and not their stupidity, Please fix this issues, this is really annoying and makes the game not fun!

 

[Moggles]

What can equally be said is why didn't you command them better. Especially in that screenshot. You commanded them to build the ceiling but did not command them to dig out the ladder access points. Why not ensure the lower level is cleared out and access routes dug out before trying to build the ceiling. I agree with Keyimin if they didn't have a less than perfect IQ the player becomes more redundant. I'm sure a programmer could write an AI that could play this game by itself but where would the fun be in that.

In my experience being mindful of the dupes surroundings you can avoid these situations.

[Keyimin]

As Moggles said, you basically asked them to build themselves into an enclosed space. You can generally prevent them from doing things "out of order" by prioritizing the parts you want them to do first, building in pieces, and/or ensuring they have an exit route when they're done. They'll generally take the easiest path to accomplishing things you've told them to do (when it comes to digging/building). They have zero regard for where that order will leave them. That's part of the game, as IMO, it's intended to be more immersive than "ordering from on high as you watch your minions work." 

So in this case, they're gonna climb the tiles, jump up onto the ceiling, and build it from there. If you'd had them dig out the undug tiles you have marked below the ceiling before building the ceiling (by prioritizing that a couple ticks higher than the ceiling), they wouldn't have been able to get on top of it. Getting them out of that predicament is simple: just issue dig orders for the tiles blocking them from the ladder. They need 2 tiles' worth of space to move through. So the two tiles to their right plus two tiles above the ladder, and they're home free.

P.S. My dupe didn't walk into a vacuum. He climbed up the ladder to build that corner tile to his right, and then another dupe built the tile under him lol. 

[Beercules]

3 hours ago, Keyimin said:

As Moggles said, you basically asked them to build themselves into an enclosed space. You can generally prevent them from doing things "out of order" by prioritizing the parts you want them to do first, building in pieces, and/or ensuring they have an exit route when they're done. They'll generally take the easiest path to accomplishing things you've told them to do (when it comes to digging/building). They have zero regard for where that order will leave them. That's part of the game, as IMO, it's intended to be more immersive than "ordering from on high as you watch your minions work." 

So in this case, they're gonna climb the tiles, jump up onto the ceiling, and build it from there. If you'd had them dig out the undug tiles you have marked below the ceiling before building the ceiling (by prioritizing that a couple ticks higher than the ceiling), they wouldn't have been able to get on top of it. Getting them out of that predicament is simple: just issue dig orders for the tiles blocking them from the ladder. They need 2 tiles' worth of space to move through. So the two tiles to their right plus two tiles above the ladder, and they're home free.

P.S. My dupe didn't walk into a vacuum. He climbed up the ladder to build that corner tile to his right, and then another dupe built the tile under him lol. 

This is exactly what the dupes were told do to, they just priorities building vs digging, anyone who plays this game for 4 seconds know this is a fact!

[Beercules]

3 hours ago, Keyimin said:

As Moggles said, you basically asked them to build themselves into an enclosed space. You can generally prevent them from doing things "out of order" by prioritizing the parts you want them to do first, building in pieces, and/or ensuring they have an exit route when they're done. They'll generally take the easiest path to accomplishing things you've told them to do (when it comes to digging/building). They have zero regard for where that order will leave them. That's part of the game, as IMO, it's intended to be more immersive than "ordering from on high as you watch your minions work." 

So in this case, they're gonna climb the tiles, jump up onto the ceiling, and build it from there. If you'd had them dig out the undug tiles you have marked below the ceiling before building the ceiling (by prioritizing that a couple ticks higher than the ceiling), they wouldn't have been able to get on top of it. Getting them out of that predicament is simple: just issue dig orders for the tiles blocking them from the ladder. They need 2 tiles' worth of space to move through. So the two tiles to their right plus two tiles above the ladder, and they're home free.

P.S. My dupe didn't walk into a vacuum. He climbed up the ladder to build that corner tile to his right, and then another dupe built the tile under him lol. 

THE AI is absolutely stupid, calling the player stupid is a great way to advertise for this game,

 

DONT WORRY ITS NOT THE ALPHA AI, ITS JUST THE STUPID PLAYER..

You sir are the perfect example of a PEBKAC!

Thanks

BEERCULES!

[MiiKy]

I think the most DUMB thing I feel about them is when one of them is Starving, I rush to make food and then instead of that Starving dupe go eat he goddam food some other dupe goes ahead and eats it, I feel there should be a priority based on how hungry they are and not just "first comes, first servers" like it is right now, Ithat dupe died BTW, I did 3 mushbars in the first day, 3 dupes ate it except that one, they went sleep, wake up, did 2 more and other 2 dupes ate instead.. Maybe I should had "Red Alert" the damm thing but whatever, if he's going to be THAT dumb better let him go..

[McGuffin]

2 hours ago, Beercules said:

THE AI is absolutely stupid, calling the player stupid is a great way to advertise for this game,

DoNT WORRY ITS NOT THE ALPHA AI, ITS JUST THE STUPID PLAYER..

lets be honest: at some point when you *know* dupes are dumb (and yes they are), you have 2 choices

Keep playing the way you did (and keep seeing "dumb" things) or change the way you play to avoid the "dumb" behavior  

[Beercules]

6 hours ago, McGuffin said:

lets be honest: at some point when you *know* dupes are dumb (and yes they are), you have 2 choices

Keep playing the way you did (and keep seeing "dumb" things) or change the way you play to avoid the "dumb" behavior  

Actually have more than two choices, and I'm more than happy to uninstall the game and move on, Plenty of other games out there to spend my time on.  I've got more than enough enjoyment out of the game and if the developers would rather put there heads up their a** then fix a serious annoyance with their game, than I wish them all the best, because they will need it.

 

[Grimgaw]

Priority list is not AI. If you can't work with priority list and get frustrated by it, maybe this game isn't for you. 

You're fully in control of what the dupes do.

[McGuffin]

1 hour ago, Beercules said:

Actually have more than two choices, and I'm more than happy to uninstall the game and move on, Plenty of other games out there to spend my time on.  I've got more than enough enjoyment out of the game and if the developers would rather put there heads up their a** then fix a serious annoyance with their game, than I wish them all the best, because they will need it.

 

Oh, you are one of those "fix-your-(pre-alpha)-game-or-I-leave" guys  :/

ok.

[Keyimin]

"I personally find your game annoying so I demand that you make it work how I want it to work, not how you intended and not how everyone else is enjoying it, else I'll quit you because I'm a special snowflake."

Right on. You do you, boo lol.

[yatima2975]

Dupes are so dumb because you are so smart! Duh

[cptCalavera]

Sometimes I plan a build, and I just know someone will get stuck. And I let it happen even tho I know I could prioritize around it. I don't know why. Something inside me kinda likes when it happens

[Jyuu]

I'm not sure if any of these mentioned are "game breaking". 

All of these "dupes" being dumb can be fixed with good "managing" of "priorities" or managing the game overall.

 

 

[Beercules]

https://ibb.co/bM4Vha

 

This is an image of dupe walking behind a block he just created into an area he could not possible leave, THIS IS ABSOLUELTY F**kin STUPID!!! You program the dupe to do stupid ****, STOP IT!

FIX YOUR GAME ALREADY!

 

[Tml90]

These images are pure gold. I'm laughing so hard at your descriptions, Beercules. Especially the last action is amazingly dumb. 

[Beercules]

Don't get my wrong, I love this game. But DAMN DOG! this is just OMGWTFBBQ stupid. And I can reproduce it over and over again, it has something to due with the fresh water! Please fix, thank you.

Saved game attached. Enjoy.

Oh don't mind my OCD build. And the hatch names are Romeo, Juliet, Cisco, Juniper and Bob. See if you cant find them all
 

 

Eureka Cycle 53.sav

[vonVile]

On 3/29/2017 at 8:30 PM, Beercules said:

THE AI is absolutely stupid, calling the player stupid is a great way to advertise for this game,

 

DONT WORRY ITS NOT THE ALPHA AI, ITS JUST THE STUPID PLAYER..

You sir are the perfect example of a PEBKAC!

Thanks

BEERCULES!

Dupes do what the player orders them to do in the order the player does it. Saying Dupes are dumb is kind of like saying a computer is dumb. Just like a computer Dupes only know what you tell them to know. Nothing more. If you have them build the something out of logical order they'll complete it that way. Once I understood that I've never had a problem of Dupes getting their heads suck outside of game bugs.

[Benny_132]

I have just over 100hours logged on the game and once i saw a dupe get stuck very early on and realised why it happened it hasn't happened again nor have i had any dupes die to this issue, it's pretty simple why this happens and comes down to poor management and poor building placement

[Tml90]

1 hour ago, vonVile said:

Dupes do what the player orders them to do in the order the player does it. Saying Dupes are dumb is kind of like saying a computer is dumb.

While you say that, the dupes obviously tries to screw you over in certain situations. If someone is making a mess or stress vomitting, you can be damn sure they walk towards a water source first. Another example, while this one is stated and on purpose, is that your destructive dupes will damage some of your most important buildings. This is basically just trying to screw over the player.

Considering that, it wouldn't surprise me if the pathfinding is coded to screw you over on occasion neither. It's obviously possible to dig/build in a legal/possible/optimum way based on conditions. I'm a dev myself btw, and creating tile based rules is a pretty common coding challenge. (See Conway's game of life) ONI is basically just a bunch of systems based off of that basic principle, at least from a allowed/disallowed action standpoint. Happy (and funny) accident or on purpose doesn't really matter. Creators of ONI wanted this. 

[Beercules]

1 hour ago, Benny_132 said:

I have just over 100hours logged on the game and once i saw a dupe get stuck very early on and realised why it happened it hasn't happened again nor have i had any dupes die to this issue, it's pretty simple why this happens and comes down to poor management and poor building placement

Explain how poor management has a dupe moving behind a block with no path around it? You shouldn't comment unless you know the situation, you sir only want to be heard, not say something worth hearing!

 

Another Ethug here!!!!

[n37runn3r]

This! OMG! It's the worst! All the other dumb crap is funny / preventable / recoverable, but starving right next to food, aaaaaaaaaaagh!!!