Beowulfe

Thermal Update - Hydrogen Bubbler (Liquid Oxygen)

51 posts in this topic

Yep.  Been experimenting with this.  Works very well.  Hydrogen is an excellent working fluid.

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Posted (edited)

(Edit) don't bother building the device I describe below. Gas loss bug will destroy all the oxygen and hydrogen you pump in. I am currently attempting to re-work it to prevent this.

 

 

 

Based on your description, I've been trying to design a compact oxygen liquidiser. I haven't tested it yet, but I intend to give it a try the moment I get back to the game. 
 
Here it is, rendered in delicious ASCII (hope this works...):
 
 
Buildings

            ███████═╗ 
        PPP █ TTT═█ ║
        PPP █═TTT █ F
      █████████████═F<H2
    F═█ PPP V PPP █═F
════F █ PPP   PPP █
 O2^F═█ S       S █
      █████████████ 

P = Pump
T = Thermoregulator
F = Gas filter
V = Vent
S = Thermo switch

 
Piping 

            ╔═══════╗
          P═╗ T═══╗ ║
            ╠═══T ║ F
      ██████║█████╚═F<H2
    F═════P V   P═══F
════F ╔═════╝     █ 
 O2^F═╝           █ 
      █████████████ 



  
This 9x8 unit is my preferred design: it might be possible to remove the lowest level of the cooling room, but then you'd lose a thermoswitch and your gas pumps would end up in liquid.
 
As you describe, it has two circuits: the hydrogen cooler (everything right of center) which activates when it is warmer than -220 degrees inside the room, and the oxygen injector/extractor (everything left of center), which activates when it's colder than that.
 
The pump in the top right provides Contaminated Oxygen from the surrounding area. A moderate amount of hydrogen would need to be pumped in at the start to prime it.
 

Edited by QuQuasar

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(Edit) Okay, I just noticed a design flaw. If enough non-oxygen is pumped in for whatever reason, the whole thing will hit max pressure and promptly seize up. 
         
Simplest to just ensure that never happens. I've changed the design to add a filter to the input line, to sanitize the inputs and ensure no chlorine or carbon dioxide gets in.

Buildings

      ╔═══F ███████═╗ 
      PPP F═█ TTT═█ ║
      PPP═F █═TTT █ F
    V═█████████████═F<H
    F═█ PPP V PPP █═F
═O2═F █ PPP   PPP █
    F═█ S       S █
      █████████████ 

Pipes

      ╔═══F ╔═══════╗
      ║ P F═╣ T═══╗ ║
      ║ ╚═F ╠═══T ║ F
    V ╝█████║█████╚═F<H
    F═════P V   P═══F
═O2═F ╔═════╝     █ 
    F═╝           █ 
      █████████████ 

 

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Posted (edited)

Since tiles change temperature now, could you stack two rooms on top of each other and use a single tile high floor as a cooling plate?

So the bottom room you would have the pump/thermo cycle with your working fluid of hydrogen and an temp switch to prevent freezing it solid, then above the cooling plate floor, you pump in as much contaminated oxygen as the room can hold, then pump out the liquid O2 with a fluid pump?

That way you don't have to worry about pressure locking the system.

EDIT:

It just occurred to me that this system would likely work better if the rooms were side by side vertically instead of stacked. That way the O2 side can be exactly two wide with the fluid pump at the bottom so no liquid O2 get's missed by the pump, and the temp exchange plate can be as tall as you want it to be.

Edited by Erasmus Crowley

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Not really.  Temperature exchange is poor so the system isn't very scalable.  I'm going to build one and see.

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Normal tiles take forever to heat up and cool down.  Very difficult to control temperature with such slow response.

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My design to convert liquid oxygen

thank for your suggest .

2017920f8e8f-9f4f-46ca-b412-5cbb89d440fe

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you can use more than 3 themor for faster convert . maximum is 6 ( because your hidrogen will become liquid too )

i ll add themor switch and more pump to make better automatic convert

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Just added screenshots and a write up of my system in the main post, let me know if you have any questions! It's rather complex, but automates everything, including preventing freezes, unintentional liquefication, handling atmospheric pressure, and priming the system (initial cooling). Aside from the incredibly rare case, there's no maintenance or manual control required at all. :)

Thoughts, questions, comments, concerns?!

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2 hours ago, Beowulfe said:

Thoughts, questions, comments, concerns?!

Geez, great design! Thank you so much for sharing!

Have to test this right now...

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Really nice design.  I haven't had a chance to play around with thermal switches yet.

Has anyone actually identified a significant difference in liquid flow down steps?  If the system is continual, I think you should get the same amount of liquid pumped if it was flat at the bottom (perhaps just the pump itself down one tile).  Worst case I would imagine is slightly more residual liquid if you were to stop the system (which seems like you wouldn't want to).  If so, it would just equate to slightly longer priming time but might allow for an easier build and/or gas balance.

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Step down saves half the space and "concentrate" the liquid so that you leave less residues on the tiles.

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Posted (edited)

On 20/03/2017 at 5:43 AM, Fatmice said:

Step down saves half the space and "concentrate" the liquid so that you leave less residues on the tiles.

A flat bottom and mesh tiles on top will also distribute liquids almost as well and is less complicated to build. Just leave the mesh tiles out at the 2 tiles where the pump is.

However, the stairs also concentrate gas flow so that the cold hydrogen comes in contact with the most amount of oxygen.

If I'd have one change to the system it would be to reverse the stairs from right to left side as hydrogen (as the lightest gas in the system) has a tendency to go to the top left corner where the circulation pump, is therefore having the stairs reversed would mean a slightly higher efficiency but it will be a miniscule difference. 

Edited by Saturnus

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has anyone tried using normal pipes instead of insulated ones made out of abysilite (not sure how to spell that) ? maybe those don't break?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, phelaen said:

has anyone tried using normal pipes instead of insulated ones made out of abysilite (not sure how to spell that) ? maybe those don't break?

Yes, i tried. They break.

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15 hours ago, Beowulfe said:

Just added screenshots and a write up of my system in the main post, let me know if you have any questions! It's rather complex, but automates everything, including preventing freezes, unintentional liquefication, handling atmospheric pressure, and priming the system (initial cooling). Aside from the incredibly rare case, there's no maintenance or manual control required at all. :)

Thoughts, questions, comments, concerns?!

IT'S BEAUTIFUL! (said like the French guy in Raiders, right before the Ark melts his face).   Amazing work, dude!

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On 3/16/2017 at 6:14 PM, Beowulfe said:

T6: This should be set to colder than -183.2. This switch controls the second gas pump, and is intended to turn it off once we reach a temperature that means we're going to start pumping oxygen in shortly. Since we do not need as much hydrogen passing through the system at that point, and this pump is in a position that raises the chance of it needlessly pumping oxygen through the pipes instead of hydrogen, we regulate the system down to one pump once we reach "primed" status. This increases overall efficiency and removes the risk of liquefying oxygen inside the pipes, breaking them.

Do you mean Activate if warmer than -183.2? If not, i do not understand the logic behind this. The second pump should turn off when it is cold enough, right?

Other than that, great manual!

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7 minutes ago, xbeo said:

Do you mean Activate if warmer than -183.2?

No. 

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8 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

No.

 

On 3/16/2017 at 6:14 PM, Beowulfe said:

we regulate the system down to one pump once we reach "primed" status.

With it being set to colder, it would start with one pump and then regulate up to two pumps once primed status is reached?

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30 minutes ago, xbeo said:

Do you mean Activate if warmer than -183.2? If not, i do not understand the logic behind this. The second pump should turn off when it is cold enough, right?

Other than that, great manual!

You are correct!! It should be active only if warmer than -183.2. Good catch, typo on my part. Fixing now, thanks! :D

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Posted (edited)

I tried it out, works like a charm.

But I had to pour water over the whole damn thing when starting it to prevent the air coolers from overheating. Did you use isolated pipes behind the coolers?

Then I had to find the right type of material for the pipes because granite broke sometimes :D

And then I tried to boil the liquid oxygen and pump it back into my base... which cooled my whole base it down to -50C on average, much colder on certain spots.

Then I tried some heating methods and my game started to crash, which almost never happens.

10/10, would build again!

 

Edited by xbeo
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Finally, an oxygen liquifier that works!  It's a shame we have to resort to such convoluted and precise contraptions just to clean contaminated air.  Compared to the ease of an electrolyzer, it's just not worth it.  However, the ocd in me dictates that I must use up every single resource!  Anyway, your machine works, but I had to replace the liquid pump at the bottom with a gas pump; for some reason, every time liquid o2 is sucked up, it immediately boils, even if the pipe is insulated.  Therefore, I expanded the bottom bucket by 1 row of tile to collect the liquid o2 and placed a gas pump where the liquid pump is.  Now, liquid o2 collects at the expanded bottom bucket, quickly boils, and the gas is then sucked up by the gas pump.  Now the next issue to solve is how to warm up the o2...

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