[Mod Contents] What Has It Got In Its Pocketses?

[Mathspy]

Yep. Because of my copy-paste stupidity, I just lost another 0.5 hours work. (The Food & Flora section). D:<

That's okay, we all learn from our mistakes!

(P.S: I need that section for the next portion of the quotes, would be great if you can refinish it soon)

[ArcticFox789]

That's okay, we all learn from our mistakes!

(P.S: I need that section for the next portion of the quotes, would be great if you can refinish it soon)

 

Yeah, the Document should be up and running soon. That section wasn't very full anyway, so hoping to have it up relatively soon. You may have to wait until tomorrow though. :/

[Mathspy]

Yeah, the Document should be up and running soon. That section wasn't very full anyway, so hoping to have it up relatively soon. You may have to wait until tomorrow though. :/

That's totally okay, no rush ^^

[simplex]

@ArcticFox789

Well, you could use the third post of the thread, hiding the second one (lifemare's) to keep things neat...

[ArcticFox789]

@ArcticFox789

Well, you could use the third post of the thread, hiding the second one (lifemare's) to keep things neat...

 

Nah, I'd need about 8 posts. It'll hold about half of each section without just going ka-put, so not really worth it.

 

Anyway, check the OP. I think this idea is better anyway, as I can add direct links to pages and such, plus there isn't a limit for me.

[simplex]

I added a "MonsterInfo" template to out wiki, for creating info boxes with the values relevant to a monster (health, damage, prefab name, etc.), which just wraps around the current Infobox usage to establish a more convenient form of using it while at the same time ensuring formatting consistency throughout the wiki (more importantly, it ensures that if we ever want to tweak the formatting, all we have to do is tweak the template itself, and the changes will propagate throughout the wiki). Every page using the MonsterInfo template is also automatically added to the Monsters category. For reference, the template page is this.

To use it in Visual mode, simply choose the MonsterInfo template and then fill it like this:

As you can see, some fields were left blank, in which case they assume default values (deduced from the wiki page's name). When absent:

• "title" defaults to the page name
• "image" default to the page name, with a "File:" in front and a ".png" after it. In the ram case, I had to specify it because the image name didn't match this convention.
• "caption" defaults to "How `whatever' appears in-game", where `whatever' is the page's name.
• The rest defaults to "No information". Specify "N/A" when something is not applicable.

The entry "prefab" should just give the prefab name without enclosing it in quotes, that's done by the template itself.

In Source mode, the template is used like this:

{{MonsterInfo|image = File:Sheep_electric.png|health = 600|damage = 35|attack_period = 4|attack_range = 3|walking_speed = 2|running_speed = 7|prefab = sheep|loot = Meat, [[Cloud Cotton]]}}

[simplex]

Huh, I just realised the vanilla DS wiki has a very similar template, called "Mob Infobox", with just slightly different conventions (for example, instead of run_speed, runSpeed is used). Would you (especially old-time editors of the vanilla wiki, such as @TeoSS69) prefer if I replaced the MonsterInfo template with a Mob Infobox one following the same conventions?

EDIT: I also added a VanillaLink template for linking to the vanilla Don't Starve wiki. For example

{{VanillaLink|Meat}}

will create a link to the Meat page in the dont-starve-game wiki, and

{{VanillaLink|Meat|Meats}}

will create the same link using "Meats" as its visible text.

For example usage, see the Sheep page.

EDIT 2: One more thing, I've been removing loot counts and percentages from drops, since some loot tables we use are far too convoluted for that (for example, the beanlet may drop up to 3 Greenbeans, but each has a different probability). If we must include detailed drop information, then we should create a section for that under each mob/workable item.

Edited December 1, 2013 by simplex

[TeoSS69]

(old-time editors of the vanilla wiki, such as @TeoSS69)

I've only been there for like a month ._.

BTW, I haven't read any of the U&A threads lately because I've been having terrible headaches all the week and can't focus properly on text. So i'm just holding on them until I can read them with a clear head and not give monkey feedback.

As for the wiki, use the vanilla templates as they're already done. If new info is needed we can edit them anyway.

 

 

 

One more thing, I've been removing loot counts and percentages from drops, since some loot tables we use are far too convoluted for that (for example, the beanlet may drop up to 3 Greenbeans, but each has a different probability). If we must include detailed drop information, then we should create a section for that under each mob/workable item. 

This.

[simplex]

I've only been there for like a month ._.

Ok, experienced editors, then.

BTW, I haven't read any of the U&A threads lately because I've been having terrible headaches all the week and can't focus properly on text. So i'm just holding on them until I can read them with a clear head and not give monkey feedback.

Sure thing. Though Willette posted some pretty pictures at Art, if you'd like to keep from text. ;]

As for the wiki, use the vanilla templates as they're already done. If new info is needed we can edit them anyway.

Yeah, I should've thought about that before writing a new one. I'll change it (probably around Tuesday, I'm kind of swamped).

[ArcticFox789]

Before I go and resurrect this document from the dead, and as this mod seemingly does the same, now seems like the perfect oppurtunity for us to run through our ideas, and share opinions, ideas, and discuss what we need, what can wait, and what might be best left out altogether.

 

So, without further ado, let's get to it.

 

Mobs:

Aetheel:

I like the Aetheel, and I think that it should probably be in the Alpha. I would hope that artwork would be relatively easy, (well, as easy as artwork gets, as it's just a reskin of a Tentacle). Also, it looks exactly like the Beanstalk, so no need to really plan ahead much.

 

Antlion:

Given that Octocopter is more advanced, and a generally more interesting way of 'levelling-up', I would suggest that the Antlion (especially given its need for custom animation), be put on the backburners for now. Although I'm not really sure it's needed. The Chimaera is cooler, and really strong minions for a really strong boss just seems like overkill to me. Also, I think we can do something more interesting (like Octocopter) than a pretty bog-standard boss-fight.

 

Ball Lightning:

Interesting, difficult to harness but great to use, and one of the few viable (and desperately needed) heat sources up there. I can see no arguments against this. Although I've never properly tested, so I may be completely wrong.

 

Beanclops:

The Bean meter idea is fantastic, one-hundred percent behind it, however the animation (the dropping Bean pod) definitely seems like more trouble than it's worth. I think this'll have to be dropped in favour of Beanclops appearing like his winter-y cousin on the surface.

 

Beanlets:

I don't even need to say anything. They're pretty much done anyway. And they're awesome.

 

Bean Zealots:

For the sake of simply making everything easier for ourselves, would it be better to add them when Level 2 drops, and then have them rarely spawn in Level One villages? I want them in the mod 100%, but if sacrifices have to be made, this seems like the most obvious choice.

 

Birds of Paradise:

Basically the replacement for vanilla birds, but do we actually need them? They might make the world look more vibrant, but if that's all they do, perhaps we would be better focusing on other bird types, like the Weaverbird with it's nest.

 

Cheshire Cat:

I've never liked this one. The smile attack is probably the one bit I like. But random scarecrows and bird murdering sprees just seem strange, excessive and offering too much free stuff. Not to mention that if we want the player to catch glipses of it, but never be able to attack/kill it, they are eventually gonna get frustrated with having to avoid places because they know that they will get almost killed by an attack from an impossible to kill foe, often without warning. I mean, at least the Grue/Charlie gives a decent warning first.

 

Chimaera:

Think I made my feelings known with the post above. Perhaps time spent custom animating a boss for a possibly ill-fitting/annoying boss fight could be put to better use with a more interesting system?

 

Duckraptor:

Firstly, please don't use my art. I submitted that under the impression that a better artist woudl touch it up, and frankly, I'd be embarrased for the mod if it got in. But the mob overall I like. It gives the Static a wider range of effects than just the Storm Rams, something I was worried we might miss. Perhaps the buzzard ANIM would be better than the Gobbler for creating a 'menacing' beast, rather than the current art of a giant blue angry (possibly electrocuted) turkey?

 

Electro Sheep/Storm Rams:

Nothing to say, but this is the kind of place where actual testers may be able to contribute.

 

Flying Fish:

Love this. It's exactly the kind of quirky thing I hoped would come out of this mod. Love the concept, the ideas, and the art. One of my favourite things, and from what I've heard, a decent food source?

 

Golden Moose:

Pretty much the only possible early-game Heat source, 100% needed, and works much better with the Gobbler ANIM than the Duckraptor does, as proved by Willette earlier in the mod.

 

Living Gnomes:

I love the idea of rival groups guarding precious crystals, especially two factions like 'Gnomes' and 'Owls'. Possibly something to cut from the Alpha though? Especially as Gnomes would require custom animation to look any good.

 

Longbills:

Again, please don't use my artwork (see 'Duckraptor'). The Longbills seem to be needed to liven up the world, as hostile/neutral mobs not involved in some kind of cycle/fancy-set-piece seem to be few and far between. As cool as these things are, it may be best to consider scrapping some set-pieces in favour of a more complete world. The ANIM is also a little dodgy (doesn't quite line up).

 

Manta Rays:

By far the coolest creature in the mod, IMHO. "When attacked, the Manta will retreat. When a Manta is attacked, over nearby Mantas circle like Batalisks. The Manta will run when hit, and then rejoin the battle later. They have relatively low health, but their teamwork and intelligence makes them dangerous and difficult to kill. They attack with pincers. Relatively necessary for the warm 'Leather armour', crafted with (I think) Wool and Manta Leather". They just sound so cool, way more interesting then almost any other creature, vanilla or otherwise. Plus the shadow thing might be easier implemented thanks to the Buzzard.

 

Marshmallow Bees:

Keep alive the idea of a happy Cloud Realm, when this is not the case, and also allow you to eat (useful food source), not to mention they are already finished and have awesome art assets. 

 

Mercurius: - (No Spoilers Please - If you must, please use Members-Only)

Well, you know all about him. If you are on the dev team of course.

 

Permahallucinations:

Are these really necessary? Can someone explain these to me, with reasons for why they are needed/what they do, think I missed this stage of development...?

 

Rainbowcoons:

Second-coolest mob. Steal food, and go mental during the Static. Speed up, damage up, health up. Also, IMHO, Rainbowcoons should prioritise better food, e.g. taking Mandrake Soup, then Meaty Stew, then Meatballs, then Berries, then Wet Goop...etc.

Plus, they look so trippy.

 

Skyflies:

Nothing really to say. I agree with recent developments to do with staying near players, for the reasons stated.

 

Strix:

I'd like these in Alpha anyway, but seems how Gnomes might miss the cut, especially so. The artwork looks cool, and any empty-eyed Owl has connotations of a certain official Halloween mod, which we could probably make a small/clever reference to. Plus, Owls can be properly creepy if done correctly.

 

Weaverbird:

Definitely an improvement on the Birds of Paradise. A unique and interesting nest certainly helps it's case with me. Fingers crossed we can come up with another two birds with similarly interesting features.

 

Will continue tomorrow. Feedback appreciated.

Edited March 31, 2014 by ArcticFox789

[debugman18]

Before I go and resurrect this document from the dead, and as this mod seemingly does the same, now seems like the perfect oppurtunity for us to run through our ideas, and share opinions, ideas, and discuss what we need, what can wait, and what might be best left out altogether.

 

So, without further ado, let's get to it.

 

Mobs:

Aetheel:

I like the Aetheel, and I think that it should probably be in the Alpha. I would hope that artwork would be relatively easy, (well, as easy as artwork gets, as it's just a reskin of a Tentacle). Also, it looks exactly like the Beanstalk, so no need to really plan ahead much.

 

Antlion:

Given that Octocopter is more advanced, and a generally more interesting way of 'levelling-up', I would suggest that the Antlion (especially given its need for custom animation), be put on the backburners for now. Although I'm not really sure it's needed. The Chimaera is cooler, and really strong minions for a really strong boss just seems like overkill to me. Also, I think we can do something more interesting (like Octocopter) than a pretty bog-standard boss-fight.

 

Ball Lightning:

Interesting, difficult to harness but great to use, and one of the few viable (and desperately needed) heat sources up there. I can see no arguments against this. Although I've never properly tested, so I may be completely wrong.

 

Beanclops:

The Bean meter idea is fantastic, one-hundred percent behind it, however the animation (the dropping Bean pod) definitely seems like more trouble than it's worth. I think this'll have to be dropped in favour of Beanclops appearing like his winter-y cousin on the surface.

 

Beanlets:

I don't even need to say anything. They're pretty much done anyway. And they're awesome.

 

Bean Zealots:

For the sake of simply making everything easier for ourselves, would it be better to add them when Level 2 drops, and then have them rarely spawn in Level One villages? I want them in the mod 100%, but if sacrifices have to be made, this seems like the most obvious choice.

 

Birds of Paradise:

Basically the replacement for vanilla birds, but do we actually need them? They might make the world look more vibrant, but if that's all they do, perhaps we would be better focusing on other bird types, like the Weaverbird with it's nest.

 

Cheshire Cat:

I've never liked this one. The smile attack is probably the one bit I like. But random scarecrows and bird murdering sprees just seem strange, excessive and offering too much free stuff. Not to mention that if we want the player to catch glipses of it, but never be able to attack/kill it, they are eventually gonna get frustrated with having to avoid places because they know that they will get almost killed by an attack from an impossible to kill foe, often without warning. I mean, at least the Grue/Charlie gives a decent warning first.

 

Chimaera:

Think I made my feelings known with the post above. Perhaps time spent custom animating a boss for a possibly ill-fitting/annoying boss fight could be put to better use with a more interesting system?

 

Duckraptor:

Firstly, please don't use my art. I submitted that under the impression that a better artist woudl touch it up, and frankly, I'd be embarrased for the mod if it got in. But the mob overall I like. It gives the Static a wider range of effects than just the Storm Rams, something I was worried we might miss. Perhaps the buzzard ANIM would be better than the Gobbler for creating a 'menacing' beast, rather than the current art of a giant blue angry (possibly electrocuted) turkey?

 

Electro Sheep/Storm Rams:

Nothing to say, but this is the kind of place where actual testers may be able to contribute.

 

Flying Fish:

Love this. It's exactly the kind of quirky thing I hoped would come out of this mod. Love the concept, the ideas, and the art. One of my favourite things, and from what I've heard, a decent food source?

 

Golden Moose:

Pretty much the only possible early-game Heat source, 100% needed, and works much better with the Gobbler ANIM than the Duckraptor does, as proved by Willette earlier in the mod.

 

Living Gnomes:

I love the idea of rival groups guarding precious crystals, especially two factions like 'Gnomes' and 'Owls'. Possibly something to cut from the Alpha though? Especially as Gnomes would require custom animation to look any good.

 

Longbills:

Again, please don't use my artwork (see 'Duckraptor'). The Longbills seem to be needed to liven up the world, as hostile/neutral mobs not involved in some kind of cycle/fancy-set-piece seem to be few and far between. As cool as these things are, it may be best to consider scrapping some set-pieces in favour of a more complete world. The ANIM is also a little dodgy (doesn't quite line up).

 

Manta Rays:

By far the coolest creature in the mod, IMHO. "When attacked, the Manta will retreat. When a Manta is attacked, over nearby Mantas circle like Batalisks. The Manta will run when hit, and then rejoin the battle later. They have relatively low health, but their teamwork and intelligence makes them dangerous and difficult to kill. They attack with pincers. Relatively necessary for the warm 'Leather armour', crafted with (I think) Wool and Manta Leather". They just sound so cool, way more interesting then almost any other creature, vanilla or otherwise. Plus the shadow thing might be easier implemented thanks to the Buzzard.

 

Marshmallow Bees:

Keep alive the idea of a happy Cloud Realm, when this is not the case, and also allow you to eat (useful food source), not to mention they are already finished and have awesome art assets. 

 

Mercurius: - (No Spoilers Please - If you must, please use Members-Only)

Well, you know all about him. If you are on the dev team of course.

 

Permahallucinations:

Are these really necessary? Can someone explain these to me, with reasons for why they are needed/what they do, think I missed this stage of development...?

 

Rainbowcoons:

Second-coolest mob. Steal food, and go mental during the Static. Speed up, damage up, health up. Also, IMHO, Rainbowcoons should prioritise better food, e.g. taking Mandrake Soup, then Meaty Stew, then Meatballs, then Berries, then Wet Goop...etc.

Plus, they look so trippy.

 

Skyflies:

Nothing really to say. I agree with recent developments to do with staying near players, for the reasons stated.

 

Strix:

I'd like these in Alpha anyway, but seems how Gnomes might miss the cut, especially so. The artwork looks cool, and any empty-eyed Owl has connotations of a certain official Halloween mod, which we could probably make a small/clever reference to. Plus, Owls can be properly creepy if done correctly.

 

Weaverbird:

Definitely an improvement on the Birds of Paradise. A unique and interesting nest certainly helps it's case with me. Fingers crossed we can come up with another two birds with similarly interesting features.

 

Will continue tomorrow. Feedback appreciated.

 

So I'll comment on the ones you are unsure about. The bolded ones I don't have much to say about, excluding a couple.

 

Antlion. Already on the backburner. Isn't even on our todo list. (I mean, a literal todo list.)

 

Bean Zealots. Codewise, almost done. Artwise, we have concept art.

 

Birds of Paradise. As you mentioned, the Weaver Birds are more fitting currently. Backburner.

 

Cheshire. The scarecrow exists, and we may leave it for now, and just disable the childspawner. The cheshire is a big task, both code and artwise. Backburner.

 

Chimaera. Backburner.

 

Living Gnomes. Codewise, almost done. Artwise, well, I may rig some animation up, since there's already a gnome texture.

 

Permahallucinations. I think this was @lifemare's idea. They add a little diversity to the world, and I may change them up some. I don't see any reason to get rid of them.

 

Ball Lightning. They need to be finished, I think. I'm not sure what's going on with them.

 

Duckraptors and Longbills. Currently, your art is the only art we have for these. If an artist could touch them up, that'd be nice. However, I really don't want to trash their art assets until then unless you really want that.

 

Rainbowcoons. They need, well, pretty much everything. That's not a huge task, but there's not much of a point getting them done without even placeholder art, considering the other things on our todo.

 

Mantas. They need a lot of work. Probably more than any other mob. Saving them for last.

 

Flying Fish. They need their code, but there isn't much to do there.

 

Edit:

Here, this is the most recent packaged (basically, only things the end user needs is in this) version of the mod. You should test it out if you can, and contribute some suggestions. We have very few testers, so it's hard to know whether something is balanced or not at the moment. You don't have to, of course, but it would help us to get feedback.

UpAndAway-prealpha.zip

Edited March 31, 2014 by debugman18

[MilleniumCount]

The Rainbowcoon is haunting me in my dreams already...I have filled multiple concept sheets but I haven't had the right feeling. But I'm determined!!!

 

You won't beat me, coon. Not again!

[simplex]

Before I go and resurrect this document from the dead, and as this mod seemingly does the same, now seems like the perfect oppurtunity for us to run through our ideas, and share opinions, ideas, and discuss what we need, what can wait, and what might be best left out altogether.

 

So, without further ado, let's get to it.

 

I mostly agree with you, but here are my remarks.

As @debugman18 pointed out, I don't see a huge need to redo the Longbill and the Duckraptor. I understand that since you're the one who drew them you're likely to be more critical, but I think they look nice. Of course they would benefit from some touching up from some artist, but since we're really spread thin on that I'm more than ok leaving them as is.

I think we should try to get the gnomes into the alpha build. The gnome/strix duality is important for having the world feel dynamic and purposeful. And they are just cool.

While I agree that permahallucinations are not all that necessary, since they are a simple enough task I don't see why to exclude them.

For mantas, we will certainly need a custom shadow animation. The way buzzards work is that their bank has a "shadow" animation which is played on the ground for the circling behaviour (this was, in fact, how we planned to do this). We may either put this animation in the manta bank itself or in a separate one, but we do need a proper animation. The buzzards don't really help all that much, except maybe in having a reference implementation for the circling logic.

 

The Rainbowcoon is haunting me in my dreams already...I have filled multiple concept sheets but I haven't had the right feeling. But I'm determined!!!

 

You won't beat me, coon. Not again!

Well, I suppose now the task is easier, since we may use the catcoon as a base.

[MilleniumCount]

 Well, I suppose now the task is easier, since we may use the catcoon as a base.

Maybe,

but the catcoon doesn't have the swift feeling the rainbowcoon should have.

Maybe the cheshire cat can use the catcoon?

[ArcticFox789]

 

I mostly agree with you, but here are my remarks.

As @debugman18 pointed out, I don't see a huge need to redo the Longbill and the Duckraptor. I understand that since you're the one who drew them you're likely to be more critical, but I think they look nice. Of course they would benefit from some touching up from some artist, but since we're really spread thin on that I'm more than ok leaving them as is.

I think we should try to get the gnomes into the alpha build. The gnome/strix duality is important for having the world feel dynamic and purposeful. And they are just cool.

While I agree that permahallucinations are not all that necessary, since they are a simple enough task I don't see why to exclude them.

For mantas, we will certainly need a custom shadow animation. The way buzzards work is that their bank has a "shadow" animation which is played on the ground for the circling behaviour (this was, in fact, how we planned to do this). We may either put this animation in the manta bank itself or in a separate one, but we do need a proper animation. The buzzards don't really help all that much, except maybe in having a reference implementation for the circling logic.

 

I understand, and having not seen them in game recently, the game seems to flatter them somewhat.

 

I agree that we should, but I'm still not sure on having the Gnome trinket as our Gnomes. I'd prefer a more stylised Gnome, but then again, art is already stretched beyond breaking point, and I see no reason to hold them up, especially over something which may not actually work out very well.

 

Permahallucinations were more me asking just why they were there, not suggesting we lost them. I don't think we'd need much doing there, so I see no reason to object.

 

On the Buzzards, that is a shame. I haven't really delved into any RoG code, so I guess I wasn't to know on that one, but I guess the circling code is something.

[ArcticFox789]

Google Doc MASSIVELY updated, 3-4 hours of work, please tell me what you think of the layout. Much is still in transistion, but it's the early hours now, and I need sleep, so no more until tomorrow.

[ArcticFox789]

Okay, the Google Doc now just needs finishing touches, page layout is now decided. I may have missed some things, please do notify me if that's the case, and tell me any information you feel something lacks, etc.

 

We really need a quick reference point for info, and I can't build something useful without input, so thoughts, feedback all welcome.

 

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1tdbs-30BDY8eGRQKWfLx-UIFSJZjYPIUBligpdjf_pU/present#slide=id.p

 

Thanks.

Edited May 17, 2014 by ArcticFox789

[simplex]

Okay, the Google Doc now just needs finishing touches, page layout is now decided. I may have missed some things, please do notify me if that's the case, and tell me any information you feel something lacks, etc.

 

We really need a quick reference point for info, and I can't build something useful without input, so thoughts, feedback all welcome.

 

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1tdbs-30BDY8eGRQKWfLx-UIFSJZjYPIUBligpdjf_pU/present#slide=id.p

 

Thanks.

I REALLY liked what you did with it. It provides a short summary on what the item/mob is about, together with a visual representation when available. Perfect.

My only remarks are on the membership/contribution page. You're using a single asterisk both for "Inactive member" and "Former member", which caused confusion. Also, marking a contributor as former member seems to me as saying they are a former contributor, and not the intended meaning of a former "official" member which remains a contributor; but I'm not sure how to tackle this...

[Battal]

DAMN YOU BLANK PAGESSSSSSS

[ArcticFox789]

I REALLY liked what you did with it. It provides a short summary on what the item/mob is about, together with a visual representation when available. Perfect.

My only remarks are on the membership/contribution page. You're using a single asterisk both for "Inactive member" and "Former member", which caused confusion. Also, marking a contributor as former member seems to me as saying they are a former contributor, and not the intended meaning of a former "official" member which remains a contributor; but I'm not sure how to tackle this...

 

I quite liked the design. Any pages missing art and such will probably get some soon, I have a few threads to trawl through, and some screenshots to take.

 

Also, in doing this, I was thinking about the Longbills, and I don't think we need them. The Gummy Bears do a similar job and are planned out better. Unless I'm missing something with the Longbills, I haven't done much testing.

 

I had intended for the Inactive members one to stretch across the rows it applied to (the first four), but in adding more text, I made this much less obvious. This is something that can be rectified.

 

Yeah, I noticed the former members issue. Not really sure what to do in this case. But in terms of this document, I'm not sure it matters, as that powerpoint is intended more for developmental purposes. A different one will be included in the actual Beta release of the mod, one that is intended for players, as was lifemare's original plan. I probably won't include the asterisks for former/inactive members on that to save confusion. I also won't include anything like the 'Scrapped content' page.

Edited May 17, 2014 by ArcticFox789

[Decelexevi]

Wow. Haven't played this yet but I look forward to it. Looks like you guys put a ton of effort and love into this mod!