Petroleum Generator Setup

[clickrush]

1 minute ago, thejams said:

Materials stored inside buildings are insulated, almost no heat transfer happens between them.

There is no heat transfer between the input and output in a Petroleum generator.

I didn't test this personally but I'am sure I read otherwise multiple times, so I just assumed it is the case that it gets transfered. Thank you for clarifying this.

[thejams]

@clickrush It was in the patch notes recently that all materials inside are considered insulated.

I did a quick test, feeding a Petro gen 530°C petroleum produces around 2-4 kDTU/s of additional heat (on top of the 20 kDTU/s from the generator itself)

[babba]

I'm traveling right now, the last few times I had lots of machines breaking down due to being -50  -100 or -150 Celsius, depending on the used material...Including generators made out of steel. Can anyone be so kind and explain how cold damage works with buildings/stations? Is it the same breakdown temperature as with heat, but the heat value gets negated to a minus Celsius value? I'm not talking about pipe breaks, its a building/station damage question in view of the cold damage. Or does it seem that buildings ( example - 100 Celsius ) break, but it may actually be a gas or liquid state change within the building ? If anyone can help of this ? I will look into my saves the next time Im home.

So if machinery heat breaks at +120 Celsius, then the cold damage value is -120 celsius?

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

7 minutes ago, babba said:

I'm traveling right now, the last few times I had lots of machines breaking down due to being -50  -100 or -150 Celsius, depending on the used material...Including generators made out of steel. Can anyone be so kind and explain how cold damage works with buildings/stations? Is it the same breakdown temperature as with heat, but the heat value gets negated to a minus Celsius value? I'm not talking about pipe breaks, its a building/station damage question in view of the cold damage.

So if machinery heat breaks at +120 Celsius, then the cold damage value is -120 celsius?

To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as cold damage in the game (excluding pipes breaking of course). Something like the AETN will simply stop working below a certain temperature, but it will not be damaged.

Something that is changing state must be damaging your generator.

[babba]

@ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy

Thank you. I will look in to my saves the next time.

[KittenIsAGeek]

2 hours ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as cold damage in the game (excluding pipes breaking of course). Something like the AETN will simply stop working below a certain temperature, but it will not be damaged.

Something that is changing state must be damaging your generator.

This has been my observation as well.  Many buildings have an internal reservoir for whatever material they're using.  For example, the petroleum generator stores some petrol internally.  If the petrol gets cold enough to freeze, or hot enough to vaporize, it will damage the machine in much the same way it would while inside pipes.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

7 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

This has been my observation as well.  Many buildings have an internal reservoir for whatever material they're using.  For example, the petroleum generator stores some petrol internally.  If the petrol gets cold enough to freeze, or hot enough to vaporize, it will damage the machine in much the same way it would while inside pipes.

Hmm, but the above discussion mentions the reservoir is completely insulated. So either it is not insulated, or something else is freezing.

Does it store the polluted water and or the carbon dioxide before releasing it? If so that, that could be what is freezing because it is being created at the generator's temperature.

[Angpaur]

It doesn't seem to me that reservoirs are completely insulated. In my current game I dumped pwater from bathrooms and showers to reservoirs for a later use. I also thoght that its temperature will not change as I rember it was mentioned in change log. Initial temperarure was quite cold, around 14C. But after few hunders of cycles, after all reservoirs were full, it was time to finally use that stored pwater and unpleasnt surprise happened - temperature of water inside reservoirs was over 30C.

[thejams]

11 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Hmm, but the above discussion mentions the reservoir is completely insulated. So either it is not insulated, or something else is freezing.

Not completely, just insulated.  It transfers heat rather slowly

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

Just now, thejams said:

Not completely, just insulated.  It transfers heat rather slowly

@babba When you get the chance, could you provide the save game? This is really depending on your set up and how long the petroleum sits in the generator idle. I know my generators do sit idle a long while, but when running they run for quite a while and probably burn through all of its reserves. It's possible you can fix this through changing your automation.

[babba]

Thanks all for your help. Still traveling for some time - The best way to reproduce it is probably to have some petro generators made from steel, using superb insulated pipes and then flooding the surrounding room with liquid oxygen. If I recall my last memories, that made them take freeze damage ( pipes stayed ok ).

So perhaps connecting a steel generator and having some petro flow in, then switch it off and ensure some petro still remains in it, then removing the pipes, then getting the room very cold with liquid oxygen and observing the machine's temp. Will it take freeze damage and will it take freeze damage without conneted pipes, but with some petro in it ?

I was not aware of state changes within a machine itself, very good to hear and know about it. Thank you.

[KittenIsAGeek]

The insulated reservoirs follow the same rules as insulated tiles.   Basically the material helps determine how good of an insulator it makes.  For example an insulated tile made of granite has a thermal conductivity of 0.034, obsidian has 0.020, and ceramic 0.006.  So, heat will transfer through granite 5 and a half times faster than through ceramic.  We can extend this by looking at an insulated pipe segment made from tungsten.  It has a thermal conductivity of 1.875 -- about half that of a normal granite block and 300 times greater than ceramic.  

We can then assume that since hydroponic tiles, petroleum generators, and the like are all made from metals that even though their internal reservoirs are treated as 'insulated,' they are still going to transfer heat -- though much more slowly than before the change was implemented.  So, if you are continually running a petrol generator at freezing temperatures, the petrol is unlikely to freeze because it won't be sitting there long enough.  However, if your generators go idle, its possible for the contents of the internal reservoir to freeze.

[babba]

As we where talking about switched off generators and perhaps possible freezing damage due to internal state changes of freezing Pretroleum within idle machinery.

I have this freezing question: What happens if a gas tanks content changes to a solid or fluid state ? Will the content be stuck in the tank until it later changes to gas again ? If someone has an answer to this, its greatly welcome Thank you.

 

I have got these Oxygen example gas tanks, the surrounding is currently at -113.2c

The tanks are getting colder and colder and Im wondering what will happen if I cool them to the state change temperature?