Hypothermia... (main base in cold biome?)

[ChickenMadness]

I tried googling and checked the wiki, it has a vague description about losing body heat. But I want to know the exact number of the temperatures that are safe / dangerous / etc.

Main reason I ask is because I'm thinking about building my base inside a cold biome thats right next to the starting biome  (seed:2800) and I'm wondering if it's even possible because of hypothermia. Does anyone know the safe temperature threshhold before dupes lose bodyheat? And would crafting the cold resistant clothing make a difference? How much difference does it make, numbers wise?


This is how close the cold biome is to the start location btw, if anyone wants to have a go on the seed (it's huge, I haven't revealed all of it from fog of war and there's 11 weezwort on screen already. There is an oxylite spiral pretty much inside the start biome too so I've been prepping the cold biome with oxylite in the storage compactor before I build there. My start mini base is right up against the oxylite spiral.

I want to go straight into pichu nut and wheat farming.

Also I just had an idea. It would be cool if there was a random start location mode, where you start in one of the dangerous biomes. (with a few starting resources) for extra difficulty and variety.

[ChickenMadness]

lol just found out that cold biome reaches all the way down to the oil biome at the bottom of the map.

[Coolthulhu]

Hypothermia almost never happens in oxygen, CO2, chlorine etc.

If a dupe got hypothermia, it's almost certainly because of liquid puddles or hydrogen pockets. As long as you mop up everything, don't allow dupes to dive or work under enclosed ceiling, you could have chlorine turning liquid in your bedroom and still get no hypothermia. But if one dupe pisses over bedroom floor in 20C, sleeping dupes may all wake up with hypothermia.

Consider the reverse problem: heat stroke. My colonies are usually close to output temperature of electrolyzer, but dupes don't mind (plants and critters do, though).

[ChickenMadness]

7 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

Hypothermia almost never happens in oxygen, CO2, chlorine etc.

If a dupe got hypothermia, it's almost certainly because of liquid puddles or hydrogen pockets. As long as you mop up everything, don't allow dupes to dive or work under enclosed ceiling, you could have chlorine turning liquid in your bedroom and still get no hypothermia. But if one dupe pisses over bedroom floor in 20C, sleeping dupes may all wake up with hypothermia.

Consider the reverse problem: heat stroke. My colonies are usually close to output temperature of electrolyzer, but dupes don't mind (plants and critters do, though).

Can you explain further what you mean by 'work under enclosed ceiling?' Do you mean when the liquid pools up vertically on single and double tiles?

[Sasza22]

There`s an overlay nobody ever uses (me included) that might be helpful here. F4 is the thermal comfort overlay.It shows you areas where dupes gain or lose heat. If an area is really blue they can get hypothermia very fast. You can get dupes with hypothermia when building stuff in water tanks in your starting biome. The overlay will show you how much energy they lose. A dupe generates heat on his own when in cold. If he generates less than he loses in the area you can be sure he will get hypothermia.

Sorry i can`t give you actual numbers but i never tried making a cold base myself (noted as a future project to try). Also there`s an insulation thicknes stat that does something about heat transfer for dupes but i got no idea how it works.

[ChickenMadness]

19 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

There`s an overlay nobody ever uses (me included) that might be helpful here. F4 is the thermal comfort overlay.It shows you areas where dupes gain or lose heat. If an area is really blue they can get hypothermia very fast. You can get dupes with hypothermia when building stuff in water tanks in your starting biome. The overlay will show you how much energy they lose. A dupe generates heat on his own when in cold. If he generates less than he loses in the area you can be sure he will get hypothermia.

Sorry i can`t give you actual numbers but i never tried making a cold base myself (noted as a future project to try). Also there`s an insulation thicknes stat that does something about heat transfer for dupes but i got no idea how it works.

Ye I'm looking at the overlay now and the heat loss is much lower than the water in the starting biome. So it seems safe for habitation. I've already started giving everyone warm sweaters before I start building lol.

Also the seed I'm on is really good if you want to try a cold base. The cold biome starts close to the base, goes all the way down to the oil biome. The Then spreads out horizontally across the bottom of the map along the oil biome. The whole area above the big cold biome is a caustic biome with alot of space to build in too.

And directly left to the base (past the caustic area) there is a cool steam geyer inside another cold small cold biome (found 2 warm sweaters there too). very close by and equally easy to access.

Seed 2800.

Edit: it's a water geyser* not cool steam.

unrelated: I've found some ice in the oil biome lol.

[Coolthulhu]

51 minutes ago, ChickenMadness said:

Can you explain further what you mean by 'work under enclosed ceiling?' Do you mean when the liquid pools up vertically on single and double tiles?

Hydrogen always goes above all other gases. It tends to pool up at the top of your base (unless it's open to space) like reverse CO2. Non-atmo-suited dupes who work in hydrogen will quickly change body temperature to match hydrogen temperature.

[ChickenMadness]

Just now, Coolthulhu said:

Hydrogen always goes above all other gases. It tends to pool up at the top of your base (unless it's open to space) like reverse CO2. Non-atmo-suited dupes who work in hydrogen will quickly change body temperature to match hydrogen temperature.

ah that makes sense

[ChickenMadness]

so one of the cool things is that the shower and toilet water I can just let it out anywhere and it turns into ice straight away. And it kills all the bacteria.

the water turns into ice before it falls all the way down the ladders. The CO2 in the bottom half is much colder than the oxygen and it freezes the water instantly. Pretty nice infinite supply of ice if you want to use it in warm bases for cooling.

Might make another thread later if I discover anymore useful things.

 

I have the hydrogen going up the chimney towards my plastic drecko farm. And I've left all the abysalite for aesthetics, pretty fun lol.

[ChickenMadness]

the poluted water is turning back into mineable tiles at the bottom of the biome.

[Azunai333]

4 hours ago, ChickenMadness said:

the poluted water is turning back into mineable tiles at the bottom of the biome.

But remember: If you mine frozen liquids you will only get the half of it (like everything else you can mine). Melting will give you the full amount.

[crypticorb]

5 hours ago, ChickenMadness said:

so one of the cool things is that the shower and toilet water I can just let it out anywhere and it turns into ice straight away. And it kills all the bacteria.

the water turns into ice before it falls all the way down the ladders. The CO2 in the bottom half is much colder than the oxygen and it freezes the water instantly. Pretty nice infinite supply of ice if you want to use it in warm bases for cooling.

Might make another thread later if I discover anymore useful things.

Keep in mind that this method is not even remotely sustainable.

It's nice to build a home base inside an ice biome because it keeps everything cool early on, but fairly soon you will notice that everything will melt. Your electrolyzer and toilet dump will be the main culprit of this, as they will output at 40^oC. Oxygen has moderate thermal conductivity to ice, and after another 20-30 cycles, every polluted ice tile nearby will start melting, and the clean ice not long after.

These are not necessarily bad things, but be prepared and forewarned.

Typically, when I encounter an ice biome that has no wild sleet wheat, is already compromised and is melting, or generally displeases me, I melt it by dumping a steam geysers accumulated output and siphoning off the cooled water for bristle blossoms, or other cooling purposes.

[avc15]

I've had dupes get hypothermia crossing especially cold ice biomes to collect wheat... even after taking measures to make sure no liquid can ever be standing on the floor along their way.

 

Not saying you shouldn't try this, only that I think your dupes really will get sick. Even if cold air doesn't drain their body heat quickly, it does gradually.

[ChickenMadness]

10 hours ago, crypticorb said:

Keep in mind that this method is not even remotely sustainable.

It's nice to build a home base inside an ice biome because it keeps everything cool early on, but fairly soon you will notice that everything will melt. Your electrolyzer and toilet dump will be the main culprit of this, as they will output at 40^oC. Oxygen has moderate thermal conductivity to ice, and after another 20-30 cycles, every polluted ice tile nearby will start melting, and the clean ice not long after.

These are not necessarily bad things, but be prepared and forewarned.

Typically, when I encounter an ice biome that has no wild sleet wheat, is already compromised and is melting, or generally displeases me, I melt it by dumping a steam geysers accumulated output and siphoning off the cooled water for bristle blossoms, or other cooling purposes.

The biome has about 20 weezwhorts inside it that I haven't moved, apart from strategically rearranging a few of them by the toilet dump area for example. It's slowly been turning the entire area into polluted ice tiles. I think because of the number of weezwhorts and size of the biome it should be sustainable if I keep everything on a small scale. I'll be keeping a big portion of it untouched apart from wheat farming.

Other points...
The water I bring into the base is freezing before it gets to the machines and toilets.
And I'm trying to keep as much of the original -30CO2 in the biome as possible as an insulator. The oxygen doesn't leave my base areabecause of gas pressure etc. 

The actual base area is warmer than the surroundings but then it's surrounded by weezworts which is keeping everything outside of the base at -30C. Haven't had any hypothermia problems yet @avc15 


This is what the base looks like so far, I have all the farming and industrial stuff outside. only a carbon skimmer and electrolizer inside right now.
 

That whole area at the bottom was mined out before but it's turned back into polluted ice tiles.


Also I have a liquid CO2 geyser near my starting biome, I was going to make another thread asking what I should do with it. I could probably use this to keep the biome cool.
I might try flooding the swamp biome with it and see what happens.
I

[crypticorb]

6 hours ago, ChickenMadness said:

The biome has about 20 weezwhorts inside it that I haven't moved, apart from strategically rearranging a few of them by the toilet dump area for example. It's slowly been turning the entire area into polluted ice tiles. I think because of the number of weezwhorts and size of the biome it should be sustainable if I keep everything on a small scale. I'll be keeping a big portion of it untouched apart from wheat farming.

Other points...
The water I bring into the base is freezing before it gets to the machines and toilets.
And I'm trying to keep as much of the original -30CO2 in the biome as possible as an insulator. The oxygen doesn't leave my base areabecause of gas pressure etc. 

The actual base area is warmer than the surroundings but then it's surrounded by weezworts which is keeping everything outside of the base at -30C. Haven't had any hypothermia problems yet @avc15 


This is what the base looks like so far, I have all the farming and industrial stuff outside. only a carbon skimmer and electrolizer inside right now.
 

If you want to make this base a permanent setup, I'd recommend allowing a thin layer of chlorine below the base, between the oxygen and CO2 layers.

Chlorine is an incredibly good insulator, and settles naturally just above CO2. It'll allow your home base to warm up and still leave the lower sections of ice biome unharmed.

6 hours ago, ChickenMadness said:

Also I have a liquid CO2 geyser near my starting biome, I was going to make another thread asking what I should do with it. I could probably use this to keep the biome cool.
I might try flooding the swamp biome with it and see what happens.
I

I'm afraid you'll be a bit disappointed by the CO2 geyser. It'll output at -55^oC, but the quantity it outputs is minuscule. -55^oC is right on the border of jumping back to gas, and what you'll find is as soon as that CO2 touches anything other than vacuum, it'll evaporate.

I tried to make a cooling loop with a CO2 geyser that was in an ice biome, but was never able to capture it because it evaporated so fast, and the average quantity was so tiny. Using this tool, I was able to find that my geysers total average daily output was 16g/s. And that was above the average norm for that type of geyser.

What you CAN do is use it to supplement your home base ice biomes temperature. 16g/s doesn't sound like a lot, but it's enough to offset multiple dupes breathing out warm CO2.